Sit, Stand, Kneel

[russialover]

Hello, I will be attendeding a byzantine church that has pews, and would like to know when would one be expected to sit, stand, or kneel? thanks

 

[malphono]

In general, there shouldn’t be any kneeling involved. When I’m the “newbie” in a church, I tend to stay toward the back for a couple of reasons, one of which is so that I can follow the posture of those in front. I’d also suggest trying to get a copy of the “pew booklet” beforehand. It can be immensely helpful (as, usually, will be the congregation).

 

[wynd]

Expect to stand the whole time, but if you just do what everyone else does you should be fine.

 

[ConstantineTG]

You may sit during Epistle reading and Homily
Stand all other times

No kneeling. Never. Ever (on Sundays).

 

[Seamus_L]

I’ve only been to one Byzantine Church where there were no kneelers. Some UGCC liturgy books even specify when to kneel, such as shortly after the Nicene Creed during the words “It is right and just to worship the Father, etc” then you kneel again just before the Communion prayer, and after receiving Communion, however you stand after Communion between Easter and Pentecost.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve only been to one Byzantine Church where there were no kneelers. Some UGCC liturgy books even specify when to kneel, such as shortly after the Nicene Creed during the words “It is right and just to worship the Father, etc” then you kneel again just before the Communion prayer, and after receiving Communion, however you stand after Communion between Easter and Pentecost.

UGCC were Latinized. If you see our latest “pew book”, the “Divine Liturgy: An Anthology for Worship”, there are no and in there. Are you talking about the little black book? That would also have the Filioque in the creed.

 

[dvdjs]

The good advice is to follow what other people are doing.

No kneeling. Never.

No kneeling. Never. Ever (on Sundays)

. Even this is incorrect.

 

[Brendan]

It goes like this…

Simon Peter says ‘Stand’
Simon Peter says "Kneel’
Simon Peter says “Genuflect”
Sit

Ah, you’re excommunicated!

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

You may sit during Epistle reading and Homily
Stand all other times

No kneeling. Never. Ever (on Sundays).

I asked my pastor about kneeling, and he said it happens but it’s not terribly common. It is primarily viewed as a lenten thing, but sometimes in the Melkite tradition, people would kneel even on sundays, and that is allowed as a local practice of economia.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I asked my pastor about kneeling, and he said it happens but it’s not terribly common. It is primarily viewed as a lenten thing, but sometimes in the Melkite tradition, people would kneel even on sundays, and that is allowed as a local practice of economia.

Or as a local practice of Latinization

Okay sure, lets admit, even in my own parish half the people kneel for Consecration and before and after receiving Communion. But should it happen? Of course not! People who are wanting to come and experience the Eastern Rites should experience the spirituality of it as well by performing the appropriate postures. Otherwise they’ll think we’re just Roman Catholics with a different Liturgy

edit:

Let me just add that our priest did try to promote a truly authentic Eastern tradition by asking people not to kneel during Sundays of Easter until Pentecost. What happened? The usual people who kneel still knelt.

 

[5Loaves]

You may sit during Epistle reading and Homily
Stand all other times
No kneeling. Never. Ever (on Sundays).

I agree with the idea that as a visitor you do best to follow those around you. I am aware that sometimes those around you are also mostly visitors and so they really have no idea what to do.

Let me just add that our priest did try to promote a truly authentic Eastern tradition by asking people not to kneel during Sundays of Easter until Pentecost. What happened? The usual people who kneel still knelt.

Our local UGCC also does Stations of the Cross during Great Lent apparently not because the priest wants it but because one or two elderly parishioners demand it. I think I saw a YouTube of a service in a UGCC Cathedral which had a huge Divine Mercy image.

Having had these innovations, or Latinizations, call them whatever you prefer, for going on two generations now it seems that the UGCC at least thinks of this as “tradition”.

I think the Ukrainians lived through hell under Communism and these practices perhaps helped them survive. It seems like it created a kind of Latin Catholic community which celebrates the Divine Liturgy and are canonically Eastern Catholic.

I have understood that during the Great Entrance and for the remainder of the DL no one should be seated, except of course those who must for reason of disability or physical weakness. We don’t have any pews.

On Sundays the norm in our parish and the Russian Orthodox I’ve been in locally is to Cross ourselves, make a profound bow and touch our fingers to the floor with the hand that did the Cross, after the priest prays “Making the change by Thy Holy Spirit”, and we pray “Amen. Amen. Amen.” (Cross, bend, touch.) along with Crossing and bowing at every mention of the Holy Trinity, of the Theotokos and of Christ our God. A lovely young Ukrainian has begun worshiping with us and she kneels after receiving Holy Eucharist… I’ve never seen a visitor from the Latin Church kneel, and we get a lot of them visiting. Even those who come from the very traditional parish where they worship in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite I have not seen kneel when they are visiting us.

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

Or as a local practice of Latinization

Okay sure, lets admit, even in my own parish half the people kneel for Consecration and before and after receiving Communion. But should it happen? Of course not! People who are wanting to come and experience the Eastern Rites should experience the spirituality of it as well by performing the appropriate postures. Otherwise they’ll think we’re just Roman Catholics with a different Liturgy

edit:

Let me just add that our priest did try to promote a truly authentic Eastern tradition by asking people not to kneel during Sundays of Easter until Pentecost. What happened? The usual people who kneel still knelt.

How strict should we interpret the injunction not to kneel? After all, one of the things I love about orthodox liturgy is the fact there is a fluidity to what people can and do do. Sometimes I think the strict interpretation of not kneeling on sundays or during pentecost is a reaction to latinizations. I don’t think they should be encouraged, and we should try to stick to the canons and understand why they say what they do. There is a quote from C.S. Lewis’ book “Letters to Malcolm I especially like.”

"What pleased me most about a Greek Orthodox Mass I once attended was that there seemed to be no prescribed behavior for the congregation. Some stood, some knelt, some sat, some walked; one crawled about the floor like a caterpillar. And the beauty of it was that nobody took the slightest notice of what anyone else was doing. I wish we Anglicans would follow their example. One meets people who are perturbed because someone in the next pew does, or does not, cross himself. They oughn’t even to have seen, let alone censured. “Who art thou that judgest Another’s Servant?” – p. 10

 

[5Loaves]

There is a quote from C.S. Lewis’ book “Letters to Malcolm I especially like.”

I recently heard that quote elsewhere. It’s great.
For anyone who hasn’t listened to Sr. Vassa’s presentation at this year’s Orientale Lumen conference it’s quite interesting. She taught a summer class of Latin Catholics whom she had visit and write about one DL and one Pre-Sanctified Liturgy at the ROCOR Cathedral in Vienna. They didn’t report any kneeling, but plenty of other activity.

 

[ConstantineTG]

It seems like it created a kind of Latin Catholic community which celebrates the Divine Liturgy and are canonically Eastern Catholic.

That is the problem, really. I wouldn’t be surprised if some in there think the difference in Liturgy is because they are ethnically Ukrainian rather than having a different spirituality all together.