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apocryphal
Guest
At Mass yesterday, the Deacon asked the congregation to sit during the Gospel. It was a long Gospel, but it rubbed me wrong. Am I being judgmental on this one, or is this a liturgical abuse?
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SouthCoast
Guest
Hmm. I’m not sure about that. I don’t like the sound of it, either. If the length is an issue for someone due to health, nobody is going to shun them for sitting. On the other hand, for those who can stand and give the gospel reading the respect that is required by tradition, then they should stand.
We stood for the reading. It could not have taken more than 5 minutes. Is that SO LONG to stand? I personally find it more difficult to sit on my knees for longer periods of time… That’s much more painful than standing. Although, I usually use that to humble myself… Though, at an Adoration service, I did have to sit on the pew every 30 minutes or so (we worshipped for over an hour and a half), because of severe pain and numbness… I really don’t wanna have to get surgery on my knees, heh, but I will humble myself whenever possible.
In any case, I would bring this to the attention of your Pastor. Make an appointment to discuss it, and follow up your discussion with a letter, carbon-copied to the Bishop of your Diocese. Word it like “Per our conversation on March whatever, 2005, I expressed concern about… I appreciate your response in which you indicated…” Seriously. This is called “CYA” in the business world, but it works in all areas of life in which documentation is vital. This is one of them.
God Bless,
Michael
We stood for the reading. It could not have taken more than 5 minutes. Is that SO LONG to stand? I personally find it more difficult to sit on my knees for longer periods of time… That’s much more painful than standing. Although, I usually use that to humble myself… Though, at an Adoration service, I did have to sit on the pew every 30 minutes or so (we worshipped for over an hour and a half), because of severe pain and numbness… I really don’t wanna have to get surgery on my knees, heh, but I will humble myself whenever possible.
In any case, I would bring this to the attention of your Pastor. Make an appointment to discuss it, and follow up your discussion with a letter, carbon-copied to the Bishop of your Diocese. Word it like “Per our conversation on March whatever, 2005, I expressed concern about… I appreciate your response in which you indicated…” Seriously. This is called “CYA” in the business world, but it works in all areas of life in which documentation is vital. This is one of them.
God Bless,
Michael
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kaimpls
Guest
At Mass yesterday, the Deacon asked the congregation to sit during the Gospel. It was a long Gospel, but it rubbed me wrong. Am I being judgmental on this one, or is this a liturgical abuse?
We are asked the same thing. As for your question, I really do not know the answer.
We are asked the same thing. As for your question, I really do not know the answer.
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Lucania
Guest
I don’t know the answer to your question but I would go to"Ask an Apologist" for the proper information. In my opinion I don’t think you are supposed to sit during the Gospel. The Gospel for the next two weeks will be long if not longer if my memory serves me correctly. In my Parish we always stand.
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puzzleannie
Guest
on Passion (Palm) Sunday and Good Friday our deacon always reminds us that the proper posture for the gospel is standing, but that anyone who needs to do so may sit at any time.
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demolitionman65
Guest
This thread reminds me of the use of Extraordinary Ministers.
In all honesty, both the notion of sitting during the Gospel and the use of Eucharistic Monstrosities (sorry, I can’t help myself) illustrate the American obsession with ease and convenience. Standing uncomfortable? Sit down! Mass going on too long? Let’s get some lay ministers to “speed up” that whole “communion distribution thing.”
Of course, it is Monday morning and my cynicism quotient is REAL HIGH just now. . .
In all honesty, both the notion of sitting during the Gospel and the use of Eucharistic Monstrosities (sorry, I can’t help myself) illustrate the American obsession with ease and convenience. Standing uncomfortable? Sit down! Mass going on too long? Let’s get some lay ministers to “speed up” that whole “communion distribution thing.”
Of course, it is Monday morning and my cynicism quotient is REAL HIGH just now. . .
J
JustSomeGuy
Guest
we had a very similar situation at my parish, but worse. for the past three weeks, not only has the assembly been instructed to sit, but the Gospel itself was read in parts by the priest and the lectors. the priest announces “a reading of the Gospel according to John” and then a lector reads a few paragrphs, then the other lector reads a bit, then priest a little, then it goes around again. they were all in the sancturary at the same time. one lector at the ambo, one at the microphone for the cantor and the priest in the middle. they used xerox copies of the text divide up which appeared to be copied from a book.
one of the priests said that this was approved, and reviewed by Rome. i thought that was bs, so after yesterday’s Mass, i asked the pastor and he said that this form was approved by the u.s. bishops, and that said approval was in the book he had. i have not seen the book, nor did i press him for its name, because i did not want to imply that i did not believe him by continuing to question him. i didn’t believe him and i still don’t.
if anyone knows anything about this, please enlighten me. i have not decided how i will pursue this, but i’m going to find out what the deal is and how something that conflicts with the GIRM can be approved.
i agree with demolitionman65 about ease and convenience. i took this as a personal insult. by implimenting this, the pastor, and whoever thought it up, is saying that we are incapable of being enlighted by the Divine Word if we stand too long or have to listen to one person read at length. if, out of our weakness, our minds wonder, i don’t think we will improve by sitting or by reading in rounds.
if others have information on this, please comment. if you have an orthodox, devoted priest at your parish that you can trust, can you ask him what he knows and post the info in this thread? it is my intention to confront my pastor with the facts. he allows other abuses too. hopefully, i can convict him with his own words. if anything, i want to prove that the people cannot and should not be lied to.
btw, this is the archdiocese of los angeles.
one of the priests said that this was approved, and reviewed by Rome. i thought that was bs, so after yesterday’s Mass, i asked the pastor and he said that this form was approved by the u.s. bishops, and that said approval was in the book he had. i have not seen the book, nor did i press him for its name, because i did not want to imply that i did not believe him by continuing to question him. i didn’t believe him and i still don’t.
if anyone knows anything about this, please enlighten me. i have not decided how i will pursue this, but i’m going to find out what the deal is and how something that conflicts with the GIRM can be approved.
i agree with demolitionman65 about ease and convenience. i took this as a personal insult. by implimenting this, the pastor, and whoever thought it up, is saying that we are incapable of being enlighted by the Divine Word if we stand too long or have to listen to one person read at length. if, out of our weakness, our minds wonder, i don’t think we will improve by sitting or by reading in rounds.
if others have information on this, please comment. if you have an orthodox, devoted priest at your parish that you can trust, can you ask him what he knows and post the info in this thread? it is my intention to confront my pastor with the facts. he allows other abuses too. hopefully, i can convict him with his own words. if anything, i want to prove that the people cannot and should not be lied to.
btw, this is the archdiocese of los angeles.
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SouthCoast
Guest
Hmm. Eucharist distribution (with extraordinary ministers) takes 20-25 minutes, with about 10-12 extraordinary ministers. It would easily take an hour without them… and that’s not feasible, since masses are back-to-back on Sunday and every single mass is wall to wall people. What are we supposed to do, just line up down the street and have a single mass that lasts all day?This thread reminds me of the use of Extraordinary Ministers.
In all honesty, both the notion of sitting during the Gospel and the use of Eucharistic Monstrosities (sorry, I can’t help myself) illustrate the American obsession with ease and convenience. Standing uncomfortable? Sit down! Mass going on too long? Let’s get some lay ministers to “speed up” that whole “communion distribution thing.”
Of course, it is Monday morning and my cynicism quotient is REAL HIGH just now. . .
-Michael
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JustSomeGuy
Guest
20-25 minutes seems like an exaggration. is it?
at my parish when the church is full we have 1000 to 1100 people. the priest plus seven Eucharistic ministers take less than 10 minutes to distribute the Eucharist. i time it by the hymn, which is usually sung once and then repeated about half way through. i have no idea what the real time is.
just wondering.
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SouthCoast
Guest
I dunno. I don’t look at my watch, but I am able to go up and receive my blessing (I’m not entering the Church til next week), kneel at my pew and pray for a pretty good solid long time before everyone is done.
Even if it is only 10 minutes, with 7 ministers, it would take 7 times as long (70 minutes) with just the priest… or perhaps only 30 or 40? Either way, for us, that would be impossible, due to running into the next mass time. Even as it is, there’s lots of cross-flow of people trying to get in while others are trying to get out.
It sounds like our parish is similar in size. Our masses are 900-1100 people. A lot more on holidays, and a regular Sunday has 5 masses.
I’m not arguing anything except to say that extraordinary ministers are really, truly needed in many places. I tire of people complaining about their use. Also, in small masses (of 100 or so people), I normally don’t see them used at all. Most recently, a priest gave a mass to a group at a girl’s weekend retreat. They happened to be my nextdoor neighbors at the beach house I stayed in over spring break. A bunch of kids + parents/guests, and I would say we had 100 or so people. The priest did give the mass all by himself, although, this precluded him from sharing the cup with us. I don’t think it would have been practical to do so without using an extraordinary minister, and I don’t suppose there was one there.
L8r,
Michael
Even if it is only 10 minutes, with 7 ministers, it would take 7 times as long (70 minutes) with just the priest… or perhaps only 30 or 40? Either way, for us, that would be impossible, due to running into the next mass time. Even as it is, there’s lots of cross-flow of people trying to get in while others are trying to get out.
It sounds like our parish is similar in size. Our masses are 900-1100 people. A lot more on holidays, and a regular Sunday has 5 masses.
I’m not arguing anything except to say that extraordinary ministers are really, truly needed in many places. I tire of people complaining about their use. Also, in small masses (of 100 or so people), I normally don’t see them used at all. Most recently, a priest gave a mass to a group at a girl’s weekend retreat. They happened to be my nextdoor neighbors at the beach house I stayed in over spring break. A bunch of kids + parents/guests, and I would say we had 100 or so people. The priest did give the mass all by himself, although, this precluded him from sharing the cup with us. I don’t think it would have been practical to do so without using an extraordinary minister, and I don’t suppose there was one there.
L8r,
Michael
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JustSomeGuy
Guest
michael,
i think the biggest gripe from people who criticize the use of the non-ordained to distribute the Eucharist is a question of not how many priests are at the mass, but how many are sitting over in the rectory. years ago, even after the communion rail disappeared, priests used to come over specifically for the distribution of communion, if they were not already concelebrating the mass. the norm was diligence and duty, now it is not.
you are right though about the chalice. if there is only one priest available (that is, the other priests aren’t off doing something else or sitting in the rectory) then use of Eucharistic ministers is required, since the council fathers of vatican ii said that reception under both kinds should be the norm and not the exception. when it comes to diminishing the glory of the Eucharist, any excuses amount to laziness and impiety IMHO. i think that’s what the EM debate is really all about. some people might go overboard, i guess.
i think the biggest gripe from people who criticize the use of the non-ordained to distribute the Eucharist is a question of not how many priests are at the mass, but how many are sitting over in the rectory. years ago, even after the communion rail disappeared, priests used to come over specifically for the distribution of communion, if they were not already concelebrating the mass. the norm was diligence and duty, now it is not.
you are right though about the chalice. if there is only one priest available (that is, the other priests aren’t off doing something else or sitting in the rectory) then use of Eucharistic ministers is required, since the council fathers of vatican ii said that reception under both kinds should be the norm and not the exception. when it comes to diminishing the glory of the Eucharist, any excuses amount to laziness and impiety IMHO. i think that’s what the EM debate is really all about. some people might go overboard, i guess.
M
Mt19_26
Guest
I have never been to a Mass in which we’ve been asked to sit during the Gospel. I don’t know for sure, but I’d guess it’s a liturgical abuse. A search through the GIRM should clarify this.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Depending on the average age of the people it may have been the directive of the Bishop to allow those who could not stand to sit. As usual it may have been misinterpreted as requiring all to sit.
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ThornGenX
Guest
I do not know about the exact rule, but it does not seem right for those who can stand to sit during the reading of the Gospel.
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puzzleannie
Guest
would it be at all possible on threads discussing aspects of the liturgy and sacraments to avoid discussion of communion in the hand and use of lay persons to administer the Eucharist, unless that is the state topic of the thread. thank you. I like to read the title, and join a discussion of that topic without digression. same thing goes for TLM.
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