Sitting or standing when there are no kneelers?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 7_Sorrows
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
brigid12 said:
I haven’t seen a document to this effect. Could you provide one, please?
Click to expand...
I don’t think there is any document that says, “If you are unable to assume position x then assume position y; and if you can’t assume either x or y then assume position z.”

But I think the G.I.R.M. may assume that standing is the default position if the G.I.R.M binding on you does not specifically say that you should be sitting or kneeling at a particular time.

The presumption that I see expressed is that if you cannot assume or maintain the position called for in your particular version of the G.I.R.M. then you should revert to “default position”.

The problem I see is that these “defaults” seem (to me) to be more aimed at the people as a whole and not at individuals. In other words, if there is a good reason why the entire parish can’t kneel (e.g. the pews are being replaced and everyone is sitting on temporary chairs with a support bar that precludes putting your legs back under the chair) then the whole parish should stand. But if Mary who has a bad knee, and Tomas who is trying to hold his infant son and Steve who is in a spot with a broken kneeler cannot kneel but most people can then I don’t think Mary, Tomas, and Steve are expected to stand in the midst of kneeling people.
 
ProVobis said:
Agreed.

Ever since I remember, though, people seem to prefer the “sneeling” posture, which I have yet to hear admonish of from the pulpit.
Click to expand...
What exactly is “sneeling”?

I wear leg braces that are not designed for the stress of kneeling and rising repeatedly and often catch on the pew when I try to rise from kneeling so I only kneel during the consecration. At the other times when kneeling is appropriate I move to the edge of the pew so I don’t intrude on those seated behind me but I am essentially seated.
 
baliano said:
What exactly is “sneeling”?
Click to expand...
I think there is a range of positions that qualify as “sneeling”. It’s a half sitting/half kneeling position.

Your knees/shins may or may not actually be coming into contact with the kneeler but your knees are at least sort of pointed in the right direction. But whether or not your knees touch, your derriere and your seat are bearing/sharing a significant portion of your weight. Those who can, are probably using their arms to distribute some of the weight load onto the pew in front.
 
I would kneel on the floor if there are no kneelers… there is no excuse not to kneel during consecration unless you really have a medical thing going on with your knees…
 
Fragile said:
Probably far more important not to turn away from him in sin while not at mass, then to not behold the host w/out physical eyes, what of the blind?
Click to expand...
I think you miss my point. People believe that a bowed head is always necessary. It’s not.
Sometimes it’s far more effective to gaze at your Beloved.
The blind are blessed regardless.
Peace.
 
Fragile said:
Why is it so important to have a view of the consecration? Many times I have my eyes closed in prayer?
Click to expand...
It is not essential. If you are blind, if you are behind a pillar, if you are too short, if the altar is too tall, if your eysight is insufficient from where you are seated, or for any other reason, then obviously you’re not going to see the consecration. Similarly, in your case you find that bowing your head is a more effective means of participating in that portion of the mass.

However, the Church has recognized value in the faithful being able to see the action at the altar. Even before the Novus Ordo, the elevation was instituted during the Liturgy of the Eucharist in order to afford a view of the newly consecrated species. In the last century, it became typical at most masses for the consecration to take place facing the people. And in the GIRM, several paragraphs seek to ensure that the altar and consecration will be visible:
  1. After the Prayer over the Offerings has been said by the principal celebrant, the concelebrants approach the altar and stand around it, but in such a way that they do not obstruct the execution of the rites and that the sacred action may be seen clearly by the faithful.
Click to expand...
  1. The sanctuary is the place where the altar stands, the Word of God is proclaimed, and the Priest, the Deacon, and the other ministers exercise their functions. It should be appropriately marked off from the body of the church either by its being somewhat elevated or by a particular structure and ornamentation. It should, moreover, be large enough to allow the Eucharist to be easily celebrated and seen.
Click to expand...
  1. The altar should be built separate from the wall, in such a way that it is possible to walk around it easily and that Mass can be celebrated at it facing the people, which is desirable wherever possible. Moreover, the altar should occupy a place where it is truly the center toward which the attention of the whole congregation of the faithful naturally turns
Click to expand...
  1. In building new churches, it is preferable for a single altar to be erected, one that in the gathering of the faithful will signify the one Christ and the one Eucharist of the Church.
    In already existing churches, however, when the old altar is so positioned that it makes the people’s participation difficult but cannot be moved without damage to artistic value, another fixed altar, skillfully made and properly dedicated, should be erected and the sacred rites celebrated on it alone. In order that the attention of the faithful not be distracted from the new altar, the old altar should not be decorated in any special way.
Click to expand...
  1. The candlesticks required for the different liturgical services for reasons of reverence or the festive character of the celebration (cf. no. 117) should be appropriately placed either on the altar or around it, according to the design ofthe altar and the sanctuary, so that the whole may be harmonious and the faithful may not be impeded from a clear view of what takes place at the altar or what is placed upon it.
Click to expand...
  1. Places for the faithful should be arranged with appropriate care so that they are able to participate in the sacred celebrations, duly following them with their eyes and their attention.
Click to expand...
 
ProVobis said:
Agreed.

Ever since I remember, though, people seem to prefer the “sneeling” posture, which I have yet to hear admonish of from the pulpit.
Click to expand...
Our priest has several times announced during Mass that those who cannot kneel should feel free to sit. I have a knee problem, and must “sneel” as you put it…do you really think I should be admonished from the pulpit?
 
Pax2u said:
Our priest has several times announced during Mass that those who cannot kneel should feel free to sit. I have a knee problem, and must “sneel” as you put it…do you really think I should be admonished from the pulpit?
Click to expand...
I think ProVobis was trying to say “sneeling” is acceptable because of the absence of preaching against it from the pulpit.

(The sisters at my Catholic school were not so generous. They were always telling school children to kneel properly. But I doubt they ever said anything to adults about their kneeling posture.)
 
SMHW said:
I think ProVobis was trying to say “sneeling” is acceptable because of the absence of preaching against it from the pulpit.

(The sisters at my Catholic school were not so generous. They were always telling school children to kneel properly. But I doubt they ever said anything to adults about their kneeling posture.)
Click to expand...
Ah, I totally misunderstood the “sneeling” post. Sorry, ProVobis!
 
I’m always amazed at how readily people criticize their brothers and sisters in church.
Seems like a big waste of time…:rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top