Situations calling for prolonged marital abstinence

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patricius79

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What are some reasons where a validly married couple that is physically capable of having sex should go for extended periods without sex?

For example, dire poverty?

(of course, if they are physically separated, like if someone is on a tour of duty in the military)

Anything else?
 
The menopausal transition can go on for 1 or 2 years or more making predicting an ovulation impossible. Couples in their early to mid 50’s don’t want to take that chance and therefore abstain for that time.
 
After having a baby, it’s generally not recommended to get pregnant again right away, but it can be hard to read one’s NFP signs while breastfeeding.
 
patricius79 said:
What are some reasons where a validly married couple that is physically capable of having sex should go for extended periods without sex?

For example, dire poverty?

(of course, if they are physically separated, like if someone is on a tour of duty in the military)

Anything else?
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Just to clarify… do you mean “should” here or “can/may”? Are you asking for circumstances where people have the duty to abstain for an extended period, or example of situations that** could** be a reason to abstain for an extended period if they discern the need?
 
lifeisbeautiful said:
Just to clarify… do you mean “should” here or “can/may”? Are you asking for circumstances where people have the duty to abstain for an extended period, or example of situations that** could** be a reason to abstain for an extended period if they discern the need?
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For now, I’m especially wondering about situations where a married couple is obligated to abstain for a prolonged period.
 
patricius79 said:
For now, I’m especially wondering about situations where a married couple is obligated to abstain for a prolonged period.
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I have done a lot of reading about marriage and abstinence since my conversion and I have never come across anything that says that a married couple is obligated to abstain from marital relations. Certainly there are situations where they may abstain. There are situations where they might feel they personally should make that sacrifice, but they are under no outside obligations. In fact, everything that I have read has said that Catholic couples should not be disturbed in their own discernment on this issue.
 
I believe that back in the old days, Lenten abstinence included sexual abstinence. (This comes up in the Kristin Lavransdatter books, which are 20th century books about life in medieval Norway–in one of the books, it’s mentioned that to have a child that was obviously conceived during Lent was regarded as being a bit scandalous.)

I don’t know when that stopped being the case, but the Eastern Orthodox still are expected to do this.

“Married couples may not have physical relations the entire of Great Lent.”

orthodox.net/articles/fastrule.html
 
There was a case in the news last year about an old fellow who would have sex with his wife in the nursing home where she was affected by debilitating dementia. I personally feel that he is obliged to abstain when the spouse is incapable of consent.

He was not convicted in the end but there remains a moral question about whether any person not capable of consent forgoes all the normal rights.
 
LongingSoul said:
There was a case in the news last year about an old fellow who would have sex with his wife in the nursing home where she was affected by debilitating dementia. I personally feel that he is obliged to abstain when the spouse is incapable of consent.

He was not convicted in the end but there remains a moral question about whether any person not capable of consent forgoes all the normal rights.
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I think there would be a big ewww factor for having marital relations with a spouse in a coma, but I don’t know what the actual ethics of it would be.

It just doesn’t sound right.
 
LongingSoul said:
There was a case in the news last year about an old fellow who would have sex with his wife in the nursing home where she was affected by debilitating dementia. I personally feel that he is obliged to abstain when the spouse is incapable of consent.

He was not convicted in the end but there remains a moral question about whether any person not capable of consent forgoes all the normal rights.
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I remember that story. His assertion was that he was rendering the marriage debt to her because she was requesting it of him. I felt badly for them both. They were in a challenging situation, with little privacy, and having dementia does not cause a person to suddenly lack libido. That is a tough case.
 
Xantippe said:
I think there would be a big ewww factor for having marital relations with a spouse in a coma, but I don’t know what the actual ethics of it would be.

It just doesn’t sound right.
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She wasn’t in a coma. She had severe dementia but was asking him for sexual relations. This was her right and he was not convicted. The lack of privacy afforded them is what bothered me the most about the story.
 
LongingSoul said:
There was a case in the news last year about an old fellow who would have sex with his wife in the nursing home where she was affected by debilitating dementia. I personally feel that he is obliged to abstain when the spouse is incapable of consent.

He was not convicted in the end but there remains a moral question about whether any person not capable of consent forgoes all the normal rights.
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This is a case where one person had a moral obligation to respect the other. I think the OP was talking about cases where BOTH need to refrain
 
Xantippe said:
I believe that back in the old days, Lenten abstinence included sexual abstinence. (This comes up in the Kristin Lavransdatter books, which are 20th century books about life in medieval Norway–in one of the books, it’s mentioned that to have a child that was obviously conceived during Lent was regarded as being a bit scandalous.)

I don’t know when that stopped being the case, but the Eastern Orthodox still are expected to do this.

“Married couples may not have physical relations the entire of Great Lent.”

orthodox.net/articles/fastrule.html
Click to expand...
Yes that was true around the puritanical middle ages. There were even penalties of fasting on bread and water for those who conceived during Lent. The ban on sexual intercourse also applied to the several days before Sunday Mass and Holy days as well as the month of December prior to Christmas. Menstruating ladies were also banned from Mass and Holy Communion as not being in the appropriate state for receiving the Body of Christ. Interesting times. It surprises me that so many traditionalists love the middle ages Catholicism so much.
 
jmjZelie said:
She wasn’t in a coma. She had severe dementia but was asking him for sexual relations. This was her right and he was not convicted. The lack of privacy afforded them is what bothered me the most about the story.
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I was continuing the thought and thinking of situations for the OP of cases where prolonged marital abstinence might be in order, even if the parties were physically capable

I’m just adding a coma to the list of possibles, rather than discussing the particular case Longing Soul mentioned.
 
LongingSoul said:
Yes that was true around the puritanical middle ages. There were even penalties of fasting on bread and water for those who conceived during Lent. The ban on sexual intercourse also applied to the several days before Sunday Mass and Holy days as well as the month of December prior to Christmas. Menstruating ladies were also banned from Mass and Holy Communion as not being in the appropriate state for receiving the Body of Christ. Interesting times. It surprises me that so many traditionalists love the middle ages Catholicism so much.
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OK, to be clear Puritinism was after the middle ages. (16th century versus the ending in the 15 century) and was largely an outgrowth of the protestant reformation).

Do you have a cite for this. I have heard of the Sunday (before Mass) abstinence (not days), just like from food, as well as the Lenten fast, (and it wouldn’t surprise me if there was an Advent fast as well (the month of December, before Christmas, really?). However, I have not heard of the ban on menstruating women, nor the reason given (I know of Churching mothers, which wasn’t the same thing as banning women until a certain time after birth, but rather reflected the reality that women stayed at home with their babies until that time). The lack of clear terminology (Advent), makes these accusations against the Church and “traditionalists” seem rather like repetitions from anti-Catholic sources, not actual history.
 
My b-i-l’s wife was diagnosed with primary pulmonary hypertension, an incurable and ultimately fatal illness. The medicine used for treatment for the illness caused severe birth defects and pregnancy and childbirth could be deadly to the mother. The doctors recommended sterilization for my b-i-l but he refused and they abstained for over a year until her death at the age of 28.
 
I find it really interesting that no one is obligated to abstain.

I’ve been told by multiple busybodies on these forums that I must abstain, I’m obligated to abstain…for a variety of different reasons.

NFP doesn’t work and you cannot have another kid…you’re obligated to abstain.

On the pill for medical reasons…you’re obligated to abstain.

🤷

Maybe I’m totally misunderstanding what obligation versus choice.

Truth. I cannot cope with anymore children. Especially from 5 weeks PP when my cycles always return.

Truth. NFP gives me horrible anxiety, has failed to work, and I don’t trust it at all.

Truth. I cannot space children through eco-breastfeeding. It’s not possible.

I see this as an obligation to abstain. Actually, I saw this as no other moral choice…to be honest.
 
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