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catholic2
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Is the New Jerusalem that is to come down from Heaven really a 1500 mile cube? and how will it fit on earth?
Size and shape of the New Jerusalem and how will it fit on the Earth?
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StCsDavid
Guest
No, it’s actually only 1,400 miles…it loses a bit during re-entry into the atmosphere. Sorry, I’m being a bit of smart-arse.
My more learned bretheren please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the “New Jerusalem” is already here in the form of the Catholic Church. I believe that when the Romans destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem in 70AD, the new faith, Christianity, was able to rise.
My more learned bretheren please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the “New Jerusalem” is already here in the form of the Catholic Church. I believe that when the Romans destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem in 70AD, the new faith, Christianity, was able to rise.
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catholic2
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Does everything have to be a metaphor? Come on now…
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StCsDavid
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When you’re dealing with apocraphal(sp?) language…it’s hard to get away from metaphores.
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catholic2
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pretend it’s not a metaphor…is it physically possible to fit that size and configuration of a city on earth. Most of it would be above earth’s atmosphere…and the earth would wobble like crazy.
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StCsDavid
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I think one would have to know the total mass of the cube in question to determine what kind of impact it would have, plus, what percentage would be above or below sea level. I can see if you just plopped it down on terra ferma, a good hunk would stick out in space. Just out of curiosity, where did you come up with the New Jerusalem being a cube?
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catholic2
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Revelation 21:16
Maybe it was mistaken?
Maybe it was mistaken?
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JimG
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It would probably cause less disruption if it rested directly on the north pole.
Seriously, one can get into real trouble by taking the book of Revelation literally.
The cube is a symbol of perfection; the lengths are multiples of the symbolic number 12.
Seriously, one can get into real trouble by taking the book of Revelation literally.
The cube is a symbol of perfection; the lengths are multiples of the symbolic number 12.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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According to some, the new Jerusalem will descend only part of the way to the earth - at first. It will come down - and the raptured will go up. Sort of like John Glenn minus the helmet and the other heavy stuff. Then they, and it, will go down again, for the millennium.
The NJ sounds rather like the mothership in “Independence Day” - it would help if we knew its velocity, rate of descent, volume per square inch, and small details like that. ##
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catholic2
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Since the New Jerusalem is described with walls, perhaps the 1,500 mile height of the city describes either a pyramid or a city with an extremely high tower in the middle.
Putting it on the North Pole…JimG, you know, that took some thinking on your part. Hmmm!
The New Jerusalem in orbit…Gottle O Geer
Well some problem with that, I think. How would the nations on earth bring their tribute 21:26? Why then does it have gates to enter it 21:13? And how would the river in the city flow without gravity 22:1?
Putting it on the North Pole…JimG, you know, that took some thinking on your part. Hmmm!
The New Jerusalem in orbit…Gottle O Geer
Well some problem with that, I think. How would the nations on earth bring their tribute 21:26? Why then does it have gates to enter it 21:13? And how would the river in the city flow without gravity 22:1?
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StCsDavid
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How’s Christ going to speak to us if he has that two-edged sword sticking out of His mouth. Rev 1:16? Seems like that would get in the way.
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catholic2
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Now that is plainly a metaphor! But I think if it is at all possible to consider something to be literal, we should consider that first.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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Maybe there are sword-holders, just as we have cigarette-holders
I’d be more worried about the two hundred miles of blood:Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs. [eight furlongs = 1760 yards = 1 mile]
There are several unknown quantities, such as how many hands high the horses are. Assuming the distance between ground and bridle (by “bridle”, understanding the bit - since the bit is always between the horse’s jaws; whereas the remainder of the bridle may be at a different distance from the ground, depending on such variables as the height of the rider, the slackness of the reins, and so on) to be five feet in all cases, and assuming the horses are riding in a single close formation (think of one of the eoreds of the Riders of Rohan in “Lord of the Rings”, but on a much larger scale - how large was an eored ? Tolkien does say somewhere); and assuming no casualties in what is after all a heavenly army, we have the following data:
- Extent of blood = 200 miles horizontally
- Vertical measurement of blood (ground to bridle) = five feet
= 5 280 000 feet = 5.28 million square feet of blood.
BTW - the punctuation in the sum is not up to much; but the result looks correct
- What would that be in gallons ?
- And how heavy would the blood be ?
- Does that amount of blood from an army of 200 million (think of the Chinese reserves - so the Living Bible) indicate a decisive victory, or a holding operation ?
Evangelical piety is very blood-centred - take, for example, the hymn “There is a fountain filled with blood”, and of course, “Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb ?”
If I were an historian of religion, and had no way of knowing otherwise, I would draw the conclusion that one became an Evangelical Christian by bathing in blood; and that this rite was derived from the similar rite in the cult of Mithras which involved being drenched in the blood of a bull - the taurobolium.
In religion, context appears to be everything. ##
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Gottle_of_Geer
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When it has touched down, of course. This would suit the context of 1 Thessalonians 4 rather well, IMHO
If it’s like the ship in The Day The Earth Stood Still, in having doors set in series, they might make very passable gates. (Compare also the seven gates of the the city of Gondolin as described in “Unfinished Tales”) The NJ would simply have more gates on each side, rather than just the one set of gates in the one wall.
We are talking about a vessel the size of Washington, or larger - I’m not suggesting the NJ is an exact duplicate of the mothership in “Independence Day”. ##Like any self-respecting starship, it would have its own internal gravity; its interior would, presumably, be not wholly unlike the artificial eco-system produced by the Genesis Project within (IIRC) 5, in the second Star Trek film. I think there is a river there.
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catholic2
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Michael of GOG, I would think you could write a great science fiction work with your imagination. Use the NJ as your base. A huge starship…yeah!
Theoretically the NJ would be weightless on earth since the gravitational pull of the earth would be offset by centrifugal equal force, assuming possession of technology preventing the pulling apart of the city.
Theoretically the NJ would be weightless on earth since the gravitational pull of the earth would be offset by centrifugal equal force, assuming possession of technology preventing the pulling apart of the city.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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catholic2
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The NJ Sonship does not have to touch down initially. Instead it remains in orbit while it beams aboard first those who are ressurected; those who are dead in Christ, then the rest in Christ who are yet alive are transported up. It touches down later after 7 years in the coming of the Lord to earth.
ps: All this transporting is done very quickly, in the “twinkling of an eye.”
ps: All this transporting is done very quickly, in the “twinkling of an eye.”
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CARose
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re: the city of Jerusalem being 1500 cubic miles
catholic2:
Hence the footnotes in my bible state the following for this passage:
The city is shaped like a gigantic cube, a symbol of perfection (cf 1 Kgs 6, 19-20). The measurements of the city and it’s wall are multiples of the symbolic number twelve; see the note on Rv 7, 4-9.
Note Rv 7, 4-9 - One hundred and forty-four thousand: the square of twelve (the number of Israel’s tribes) multiplied by a thousand, symbolic of the new Israel (cf Rv 14, 1-5; Gal 6, 16; Jas 1,1) that embraces people from every nation, race, people, and tongue.
I’d say this does more to explain it than trying to figure out how a cube of a city was supposed to fit on the planet.
CARose
scripture is never mistaken, but those of us who attempt to interpret it frequently are. Hence the need for an authorized teacher, the Church.
Hence the footnotes in my bible state the following for this passage:
The city is shaped like a gigantic cube, a symbol of perfection (cf 1 Kgs 6, 19-20). The measurements of the city and it’s wall are multiples of the symbolic number twelve; see the note on Rv 7, 4-9.
Note Rv 7, 4-9 - One hundred and forty-four thousand: the square of twelve (the number of Israel’s tribes) multiplied by a thousand, symbolic of the new Israel (cf Rv 14, 1-5; Gal 6, 16; Jas 1,1) that embraces people from every nation, race, people, and tongue.
I’d say this does more to explain it than trying to figure out how a cube of a city was supposed to fit on the planet.
CARose
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catholic2
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That doesn’t explain away the cubed city, it only explains it’s symbolism.
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Eileen_T
Guest
Personally, I’d leave it up to GOD.
He’s gotten it right without our advise so far. . .
He’s gotten it right without our advise so far. . .
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