Size of the universe

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Please forgive me, I have asked this before.

Also, please forgive me, I should know the answers but I do not.

Do we know the size of the universe?

Have we observed its boundaries?

How does multiple universes change our understanding of this universe and the science a but how all of this universe developed?

There are so many questions around this topic that I do not know how to start.

Thanks!
The size of the universe is unknown. Even the latest Hubble telescope deep space images show faint galaxies in the distance. Any boundary would be unobservable. There is no evidence of multiple universes The idea is a wish and not even a valid scientific guess.

Peace,
Ed
 
The size of the universe is unknown. Even the latest Hubble telescope deep space images show faint galaxies in the distance. Any boundary would be unobservable. There is no evidence of multiple universes The idea is a wish and not even a valid scientific guess.

Peace,
Ed
There was a time when I wondered if there was the plausibility of other universes, realms etc. based upon writings in Saint Paul having a dream if my recollection is correct at this moment in seeing what Saint Paul termed as a seventh heaven. I realize that such is only speculative thinking in folly. Not all mysteries of existence in God’s creation are shown to us because in truth we greatly lack the wisdom of understanding of this world and for the most part our own inner being. At any rate it becomes useless in idle discussion because it would gain us nothing even if we had know. I for one am quite content with the following words. Ecclesiasticus Chapter 3 Verses 20-26 drbo.org/chapter/26003.htm
[20] The greater thou art, the more humble thyself in all things, and thou shalt find grace before God:
[21] For great is the power of God alone, and he is honoured by the humble. [22] Seek not the things that are too high for thee, and search not into things above thy ability: but the things that God hath commanded thee, think on them always, and in many of his works be not curious. [23] For it is not necessary for thee to see with thy eyes those things that are hid. [24] In unnecessary matters be not over curious, and in many of his works thou shalt not be inquisitive. [25] For many things are shewn to thee above the understanding of men.
[26] And the suspicion of them hath deceived many, and hath detained their minds in vanity.
 
You mean before it contracts (again)?

Just a thought.
Perhaps, but the Big Bang Theory is just a theory. We don’t know for sure what’s happening, where the “boundaries” are of the universe or if there ever are any boundaries. We humans will never know.

Not in this life anyway 😉
 
For starters, I agree with Joe 5859 who touched on the subject of/that if there are multiple universes then we might need to reconsider the terminology/definition of universe.

Here’s my take on the question of: “Do we know the size of the universe?”:

To know/define the size of something, we must be able to measure it.
To measure something’s size, we must have a unit to measure it in.
To have a unit of measurement means to have a standard, or consistent, unchanging entity. For example a meter (or a lightyear) is a unit of length that we deem “consistent” and therefore commonly measure things in.
However, since space (along with time) are relative to where/when we are measuring from, they are not truly consistent/unchanging, so…
We really can’t measure anything’s true size here on earth, let alone the “size” of the
universe.

Forgive me if I’m butting in here. I’m just having fun, and I don’t have a Ph.D. in Physics–only a B.S, and a lowly public university’s one at that!

But when I do seriously think about these things, it just makes me revel in His mysteries…It’s such that no matter how far and advanced today’s science takes us, there’s yet so far to go that we can’t even begin to imagine…

Just my two cents-worth…
 
For starters, I agree with Joe 5859 who touched on the subject of/that if there are multiple universes then we might need to reconsider the terminology/definition of universe.

Here’s my take on the question of: “Do we know the size of the universe?”:

To know/define the size of something, we must be able to measure it.
To measure something’s size, we must have a unit to measure it in.
To have a unit of measurement means to have a standard, or consistent, unchanging entity. For example a meter (or a lightyear) is a unit of length that we deem “consistent” and therefore commonly measure things in.
However, since space (along with time) are relative to where/when we are measuring from, they are not truly consistent/unchanging, so…
We really can’t measure anything’s true size here on earth, let alone the “size” of the
universe.

Forgive me if I’m butting in here. I’m just having fun, and I don’t have a Ph.D. in Physics–only a B.S, and a lowly public university’s one at that!

But when I do seriously think about these things, it just makes me revel in His mysteries…It’s such that no matter how far and advanced today’s science takes us, there’s yet so far to go that we can’t even begin to imagine…

Just my two cents-worth…
Interesting I think you have a point; human science in particular regarding physics and mathematics when it comes to the act of measurement is always done via linear measurement (eg. the distance between two points). When speaking about the dimensional complexities of space, time and matter traditional linear measurement seems so mundane and limited strictly speaking from a human perspective. To get a real prospective on the size of the universe one would paradoxically need to step outside the box as a manner of speaking where the (“human rules”) and applications of human science, physics and mathematics vitually don’t exist. Sounds crazy yes but humans are bound by the limitations of their thinking processes and its own theoretical science. The complexities and mystery of space, time and matter alone changes the rules of engaging measurement if not at the very least the thinking process of human science itself. Comprehending the universe by the mere human faculty of understanding size has its own limits. Fact is with God any reference of size doesn’t exist bound by human terms of thinking.
 
Perhaps, but the** Big Bang Theory is just a theory**. We don’t know for sure what’s happening, where the “boundaries” are of the universe or if there ever are any boundaries. We humans will never know.

Not in this life anyway 😉
It is a theory that has been verified several times over now via experiments (COBE is its biggest supporter). It is not just a theory.
 
What has been proved by COBE? Not much. Next up: dark matter.

Peace,
Ed
Please tell this to: john.c.mather@nasa.gov and gfsmoot@lbl.gov. I am sure they would love to hear your comments on the matter.

COBE measured the temperature of the microwave background and the (minimal) CMB anisotropy, both of which were predicted by the Big Bang theory long before COBE was flown up.
 
Please tell this to: john.c.mather@nasa.gov and gfsmoot@lbl.gov. I am sure they would love to hear your comments on the matter.

COBE measured the temperature of the microwave background and the (minimal) CMB anisotropy, both of which were predicted by the Big Bang theory long before COBE was flown up.
And the temperature of something means only this? There is no other possible reason for the temperature measured? Most of space is a vacuum filled with energy of some kind, including gamma rays, photons (which have a dual character) and even X-rays. Of course, there would be some temperature fluctuations: stars are exploding, galaxies are colliding, and the energy related to star formation.

Peace,
Ed
 
according to astronomer/astro physicist Hugh Ross we have seen the farthest galaxy in the universe.
 
Alberti_Devoveo

As a doctor of physics, how big a deal is it to doubt dark matter?

In your judgment is Hugh Ross correct about seeing the end of the universe (or how ever he stated it)?

Thanks!
 
And the temperature of something means only this? There is no other possible reason for the temperature measured? Most of space is a vacuum filled with energy of some kind, including gamma rays, photons (which have a dual character) and even X-rays. Of course, there would be some temperature fluctuations: stars are exploding, galaxies are colliding, and the energy related to star formation.

Peace,
Ed
Last I checked, the gamma rays and x-rays are on the far right of the electromagnetic spectrum (signifying high energy) while microwaves are on the far left (signifying low energy). The photons of those higher energy bands could not possibly fit a 2.7 K blackbody curve.

Stellar explosions and galactic collisions give rise to x-ray and gamma-ray photons; so unless the collisions happened very long ago (say, within the first 100,000 years of the universe), they could not have been red-shifted to the microwave band. In case you were not aware: the first stars formed about 10 million years after the Big Bang, galaxies in the 100 million years range.

Add to that the temperature fluctuations of COBE and WMAP are on the several-degree scale, the fluctuations you are talking about would be on the arc-second scale. In case you were not aware: 60 arc-seconds make 1 arc-minute, 1 arc-minute makes 1 degree; thus you are discussing 1/3600 degree fluctuations when COBE and WMAP are talking a few degrees. Even the resolution of the WMAP was something like 10 arc-minutes.

Out of curiosity, why do you not like the Big Bang theory? Not only does it fit perfectly with observations, it virtually necessitates at the very least a Creator; every theist should love it, not dislike it.
 
Alberti_Devoveo

As a doctor of physics, how big a deal is it to doubt dark matter?

In your judgment is Hugh Ross correct about seeing the end of the universe (or how ever he stated it)?

Thanks!
It is not a big deal to doubt dark matter, there are plenty of researchers (not myself) who are investigating what is called “alternative theories of gravity” (such as f(R) gravity). These guys assume that Einstein’s field equations (i.e., the equations of general relativity) are only a first-order approximation (something like f(x)=x is first order) and that higher-ordered terms are necessary (f(x)=xx* is second order, f(x)=xxx is third and so on). With these higher-ordered terms, it is possible to account for things that dark matter is accredited with, such as the flatness of the rotation curve of galaxies at large radii.

If you are referencing what itullian said about Hugh Ross, then yes I think he is correct: we have seen the farthest galaxy from our own. It is something like 13.4 billion light-years away from us and formed when the universe was something like 400 million years old!
 
…it virtually necessitates at the very least a Creator; every theist should love it, not dislike it.
I know that this was asked of edwest2.

How often do scientists say this? If they do not say this too often, it confuses us. Well, it confuses me.

As a doctor of physics, you seem to be in the minority. This is a really nice piece of information. THANKS! I do not know what the minority or majority say, I said it SEEMS as if you are in the minority. I hope you are the majority.

Joseph Ratzinger, In the Beginning, p. 50: “Now, more reflective spirit have long been aware that there is no either-or here. We cannot say: creation or evolution, inasmuch as these two things respond to two different realities…It explains their inner most origin and casts light on the project that they are. And, vice versa, the theory of evolution seeks to understand and describe biological developments.”
 
Last I checked, the gamma rays and x-rays are on the far right of the electromagnetic spectrum (signifying high energy) while microwaves are on the far left (signifying low energy). The photons of those higher energy bands could not possibly fit a 2.7 K blackbody curve.

Stellar explosions and galactic collisions give rise to x-ray and gamma-ray photons; so unless the collisions happened very long ago (say, within the first 100,000 years of the universe), they could not have been red-shifted to the microwave band. In case you were not aware: the first stars formed about 10 million years after the Big Bang, galaxies in the 100 million years range.

Add to that the temperature fluctuations of COBE and WMAP are on the several-degree scale, the fluctuations you are talking about would be on the arc-second scale. In case you were not aware: 60 arc-seconds make 1 arc-minute, 1 arc-minute makes 1 degree; thus you are discussing 1/3600 degree fluctuations when COBE and WMAP are talking a few degrees. Even the resolution of the WMAP was something like 10 arc-minutes.

Out of curiosity, why do you not like the Big Bang theory? Not only does it fit perfectly with observations, it virtually necessitates at the very least a Creator; every theist should love it, not dislike it.
To answer your question:
  1. The source of the matter/energy is unknown. At least one other post dismissed the necessity of explaining that one.
  2. The Big Bang exploded into what? Nothing?
  3. We do not know the characteristics of what exploded. There are cases where real-world explosives can produce non-uniform effects. An explosion is generally a ball of force that moves out at a given speed. If there was a Big Bang into nothing then all particles/energy had no impediments to slow down or form bits of matter. There should be no matter at all if it was a pure energy explosion. The fact that there is matter presupposes that the explosive energy/material, traveling at the speed of light, contained attributes or materials that allowed for matter formation.
Imagine the universe as a very large but empty room that had energy added to it. Now if heat is added to the room, the temperature is generally uniform at any point of that room, except where, in this case, some unknown force allows for or causes temperature variations.

The theist connection has some value but I don’t need science to validate divine revelation.

Peace,
Ed
 
it is not a big deal to doubt dark matter, there are plenty of researchers (not myself) who are investigating what is called “alternative theories of gravity” (such as f(r) gravity). These guys assume that einstein’s field equations (i.e., the equations of general relativity) are only a first-order approximation (something like f(x)=x is first order) and that higher-ordered terms are necessary (f(x)=xx* is second order, f(x)=xxx is third and so on). With these higher-ordered terms, it is possible to account for things that dark matter is accredited with, such as the flatness of the rotation curve of galaxies at large radii.

If you are referencing what itullian said about hugh ross, then yes i think he is correct: We have seen the farthest galaxy from our own. It is something like 13.4 billion light-years away from us and formed when the universe was something like 400 million years old!
again: Thanks!!!
 
I know that this was asked of edwest2.

How often do scientists say this? If they do not say this too often, it confuses us. Well, it confuses me.

As a doctor of physics, you seem to be in the minority. This is a really nice piece of information. THANKS! I do not know what the minority or majority say, I said it SEEMS as if you are in the minority. I hope you are the majority.

Joseph Ratzinger, In the Beginning, p. 50: “Now, more reflective spirit have long been aware that there is no either-or here. We cannot say: creation or evolution, inasmuch as these two things respond to two different realities…It explains their inner most origin and casts light on the project that they are. And, vice versa, the theory of evolution seeks to understand and describe biological developments.”
If I am not mistaken, I am technically part of the majority (something like 60% of scientists are theists), but I seem to know more atheistic scientists than theistic ones.
 
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