Skeptic Questions

[rben20]

Hello Catholics,

My faith is best described as a tossing and turning of ideas. I have come to a point where I believe that there is a definitely a God but I question whether He is truly knowable. If God is knowable, how is it that we know it is through His Son, Jesus Christ? How do we know it’s not through the world (Pantheism) or through another monotheistic lens (Judaism or Islam)? If God is not knowable, then I would have to consider myself to be agnostic or a deist, but I haven’t reached that point yet nor do I know if I will. How do we jump from there being a God to it being the Holy Trinity? Is it all based on faith? If it is I don’t see why some Catholics get so upset with others when those people feel like it’s sincerely jumping into the abyss based on faith. Not to be confused with those who want to deny God in order to do as they please.

 

[catholictiger]

Hello Catholics,

My faith is best described as a tossing and turning of ideas. I have come to a point where I believe that there is a definitely a God but I question whether He is truly knowable. If God is knowable, how is it that we know it is through His Son, Jesus Christ?

i don’t know theology that well or philosophy well enough to be able to describe why this is the case but we as catholics are blessed becuase we have Christ present 24/7 in every single catholic church in the world, and this as you probably know is the body blood soul and divinity of God’s son. I can’t really describe using theology and philsophy why this is the case but through faith I know it is the case. Faith will always come before knowledge.

How do we know it’s not through the world (Pantheism) or through another monotheistic lens (Judaism or Islam)?

it sorta is just not in the extremes that they claim

we can see God all over the world. In people we see in nature which both are God’s Beutiful Creation, but we can only fully know God through Christ.

If God is not knowable, then I would have to consider myself to be agnostic or a deist, but I haven’t reached that point yet nor do I know if I will.

God is Knowable but his essence his being is so vast and so deep that we can only know a small piece of what God truly is so it may look like we can’t know him.

How do we jump from there being a God to it being the Holy Trinity? Is it all based on faith?

again IDK if this is the best theological description of the holy trinity but I have heard someone say that the Trinity is the best sign of Love we can have. The love that the Father and the son share and have is so great that it brings about the Holy spirit. Also we here on earth sorta mirror the trinity. A Husband and Wife love eachother so much that they produce an offspring, just like the Father and the Son have the holy spirit.

So again the trinity is all based on Love and how its the best sign we have of it. There could be better explinations I just don’t know them

so no its not all based on faith

If it is I don’t see why some Catholics get so upset with others when those people feel like it’s sincerely jumping into the abyss based on faith. Not to be confused with those who want to deny God in order to do as they please.

i don’t think we jump into a abyss based on faith, we have enough trust in the lord to know that there is something greater then we can ever know down their so we take that leap of faith and grow in relationship with him.

 

[mosher]

Hello Catholics,

My faith is best described as a tossing and turning of ideas. I have come to a point where I believe that there is a definitely a God but I question whether He is truly knowable. If God is knowable, how is it that we know it is through His Son, Jesus Christ? How do we know it’s not through the world (Pantheism) or through another monotheistic lens (Judaism or Islam)? If God is not knowable, then I would have to consider myself to be agnostic or a deist, but I haven’t reached that point yet nor do I know if I will. How do we jump from there being a God to it being the Holy Trinity? Is it all based on faith? If it is I don’t see why some Catholics get so upset with others when those people feel like it’s sincerely jumping into the abyss based on faith. Not to be confused with those who want to deny God in order to do as they please.

It is good that your faith is “tossing and turning” since that is the same term that was used to describe the manner of ‘pondering’ that Mary did at the Annunciation.

To cut through the matter I should just ask you: How can you believe in something that cannot be known, at least in part? Does this not seem contradictory?

 

[thirddec]

your faith will always be a tossing and turning of ideas but in the end there will emerge some clear and rooted ideas. Then the tossing and turning will be on how best to live and apply them. If faith was as clear as black or white things would be so much simpler and everything isnt black or white with our limits of intelligence and knowledge and honesty.

You need to centre yourself in one place be it God as one or God as a particular person and pray for the wisdom, guidence , grace and courage. one you get to a centre you can gradually move out slowly from there to understand other concepts.

Throwing sand in someones eyes is a well known trick of scoundrells how much more can Satan do with creating a whirlwind of ideas to prevent real focus on the true roots of faith.

Sometimes it is important to stop thinking and pray so that you can in silence and meditation hear the answers as they come to you in Gods time. Remember no one alive today will have all the answers and anyone who claims to should be avoided as they are clearly lying or deluded.

I don’t think this will help you but i hope maybe its something to think on

 

[JimG]

For some more in depth answers, I would recommend you visit the Faith section of this website, perhaps that part with tracts discussing various aspects of the Faith.

 

[Joe_5859]

Hello Catholics,

My faith is best described as a tossing and turning of ideas. I have come to a point where I believe that there is a definitely a God but I question whether He is truly knowable. If God is knowable, how is it that we know it is through His Son, Jesus Christ? How do we know it’s not through the world (Pantheism) or through another monotheistic lens (Judaism or Islam)? If God is not knowable, then I would have to consider myself to be agnostic or a deist, but I haven’t reached that point yet nor do I know if I will. How do we jump from there being a God to it being the Holy Trinity? Is it all based on faith? If it is I don’t see why some Catholics get so upset with others when those people feel like it’s sincerely jumping into the abyss based on faith. Not to be confused with those who want to deny God in order to do as they please.

I would highly recommend the book Yes or No?: Straight Answers to Tough Questions About Christianity by Peter Kreeft.

I hate to just drop a book recommendation and not address your question, but I’m short on time and this book really helped me make sense of it all when I was wrestling with the same type of questions.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Hello Catholics,

My faith is best described as a tossing and turning of ideas. I have come to a point where I believe that there is a definitely a God but I question whether He is truly knowable. If God is knowable, how is it that we know it is through His Son, Jesus Christ? How do we know it’s not through the world (Pantheism) or through another monotheistic lens (Judaism or Islam)? If God is not knowable, then I would have to consider myself to be agnostic or a deist, but I haven’t reached that point yet nor do I know if I will. How do we jump from there being a God to it being the Holy Trinity? Is it all based on faith? If it is I don’t see why some Catholics get so upset with others when those people feel like it’s sincerely jumping into the abyss based on faith. Not to be confused with those who want to deny God in order to do as they please.

Try reading The Science Before Science, A Guide to Thinking in the 21st Century by Anthony Rizzi, Ph.D.

Here’s a link to Rizzi’s website: iapweb.org/director.htm

Jim Dandy

 

[rben20]

Well I want to say thank you for those who have responded, I will be sure to do some reading as my faith is important to me.

It is good that your faith is “tossing and turning” since that is the same term that was used to describe the manner of ‘pondering’ that Mary did at the Annunciation.

To cut through the matter I should just ask you: How can you believe in something that cannot be known, at least in part? Does this not seem contradictory?

You can believe in something even if it’s not completely knowable. What we believe in the apostles creed is only a grain of what else there must be in regards to God and an external realm to the material universe we currently live in. Some people just start off before the creed. A good example is aristotle who reasoned a God but did not know Him. I sometimes believe I’m in the same boat while at other times I could not imagine God being so vague about Himself after His revelation in Jesus.

What I find interesting is my world view point is at times very radical when compared to lets say an eastern religion. It comes down to, well which one is right? Can we REALLY know or all we all guessing?

 

[rben20]

Well I want to say thank you for those who have responded, I will be sure to do some reading as my faith is important to me.

It is good that your faith is “tossing and turning” since that is the same term that was used to describe the manner of ‘pondering’ that Mary did at the Annunciation.

To cut through the matter I should just ask you: How can you believe in something that cannot be known, at least in part? Does this not seem contradictory?

You can believe in something even if it’s not completely knowable. What we believe in the apostles creed is only a grain of what else there must be in regards to God and an external realm to the material universe we currently live in. Some people just start off before the creed. A good example is aristotle who reasoned a God but did not know Him. I sometimes believe I’m in the same boat while at other times I could not imagine God being so vague about Himself after His revelation in Jesus.

What I find interesting is my world view point is at times very radical when compared to lets say an eastern religion. It comes down to, well which one is right? Can we REALLY know or all we all guessing?

 

[Della]

Well I want to say thank you for those who have responded, I will be sure to do some reading as my faith is important to me.

Just to add to your reading list, the very best and wittiest apologist of the 20th century was G. K. Chesterton. Some of his writings are online, so they are readily accessible (which is great for those of us on tight budgets ). I recommend you first read his: The Everlasting Man. No one expressed himself like Chesterton on any topic. I think you will truly enjoy reading him.

You can believe in something even if it’s not completely knowable. What we believe in the apostles creed is only a grain of what else there must be in regards to God and an external realm to the material universe we currently live in. Some people just start off before the creed. A good example is aristotle who reasoned a God but did not know Him. I sometimes believe I’m in the same boat while at other times I could not imagine God being so vague about Himself after His revelation in Jesus.

What I find interesting is my world view point is at times very radical when compared to lets say an eastern religion. It comes down to, well which one is right? Can we REALLY know or all we all guessing?

What we moderns often do is divorce faith from reality and from history. This is a big mistake. God has acted within human history since Adam and Eve. He has revealed himself to certain people within a chosen people down through the ages. God wished to keep his relationship with man a “family” affair. He didn’t want us thinking of him in the abstract (so many wrong-headed if good-hearted ideas have come about doing that). He revealed himself to Abraham and his sons, and on until Jesus, born of Abraham’s stock of the family of Judah. He was a real person in a real time and place with whom real people can still relate. He’s not off somewhere gazing down on us, he’s in us, in our souls by reason of our baptism.

Everything we believe and practice is rooted in historical realities and truths. We aren’t floundering around wishing God would talk to us–he talks to us every day in his Church through it’s prayers and readings and the practicing of our faith. I suggest you pray Morning and Evening Prayer every day for just a week and see if it doesn’t make a big difference in how you see Christ and your own relationship with him. Attend weekly Mass faithfully and daily if possible, or adoration once a week or once a month. In a word, practice your faith. Make it a part of your every day reality instead of wondering why God does this or that, make him the reason for living. It’s all in the little things, as Jesus said, “It’s the little foxes that spoil the vine.” Get to know him in the little things, the ordinary things and the bigger questions will fall into place.

 

[kbachler]

Hello Catholics,

My faith is best described as a tossing and turning of ideas. I have come to a point where I believe that there is a definitely a God but I question whether He is truly knowable. If God is knowable, how is it that we know it is through His Son, Jesus Christ? How do we know it’s not through the world (Pantheism) or through another monotheistic lens (Judaism or Islam)? If God is not knowable, then I would have to consider myself to be agnostic or a deist, but I haven’t reached that point yet nor do I know if I will. How do we jump from there being a God to it being the Holy Trinity? Is it all based on faith? If it is I don’t see why some Catholics get so upset with others when those people feel like it’s sincerely jumping into the abyss based on faith. Not to be confused with those who want to deny God in order to do as they please.

God IS, in part, knowable through the world, and in detail, through science. In a sense this type of knowing is similar to how we can know about an artist, or composer by looking at the works he/she creates.

When asked what the greatest commandment is, Christ replied that there are two: “Love God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind” and “Love your neighbor as yourself.” He noted that all other commandments are derived from these two.

In the workings of the universe, we discover that there are intricate and often subtle mathematics at work. God in his creation appears to be a God of logic, NOT a God of mysticism. For Him to command that we know Him, and then be inconsistent (and hence unknowable) would lead us to believe that God would not be a benevolent God. Instead we see that He IS consistent. The universe works through physical laws, and logic.

That Christ would say that there are two commandments, and that all others are derived AGAIN demonstrates His logic, as we often see in His parables.

The laws of the physical universe are revealed to us by understand the motion and interactions in that universe. The “underlying information” is revealed as we experience “reality”.

Moral laws can be learned through social interaction in a similar way, but on this planet all inter-actors are flawed. To this extent, God self-reveals through His word and through sending His Son.

Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all believe that Abraham interacted with God. For the Jews the promise made to Abraham for being obedient and offering His Son Isaac is the promise of the land and of being the chosen people. For Islam the story is that Ishmael (born of a servant, rather than Abraham’s wife) is the true heir as the eldest son.

But only in Christianity does the story take on the meaning of God asking Abraham to be obedient and “do for Him” what God would be one day willing to do for Abraham (mankind.) To sacrifice his only son, born under special circumstances. To go to Mt. Moriah (Jerusalem) and do it there. To take two men and a donkey and leave them at the foot of the mountain. And when Christ went to Jerusalem he stopped outside the city and sent ahead to men to bring him a donkey to ride into Jerusalem. Only in Christianity does Isaac the son and Jesus the Son carry the wood for the sacrifice. Only in Christianity is Isaac the whole offering, the ram the guilt offering and Jesus the sin offering as prescribed to the ancient Jews. Only in Christianity, when God can see Abraham fulfill THE test, the test that God would give Himself, does God make a promise to Abraham.

Read Genesis 22 and passion in the Gospels and compare details. Read Genesis 24 and Acts, and think about a nameless servant taking gifts to bring back a bride for the son (in Christianity the Church is the bride of the Son.)

This reality, revealed not through prophecy, but through actions in history make a compelling argument for Christianity.

 

[mosher]

Well I want to say thank you for those who have responded, I will be sure to do some reading as my faith is important to me.

You can believe in something even if it’s not completely knowable. What we believe in the apostles creed is only a grain of what else there must be in regards to God and an external realm to the material universe we currently live in. Some people just start off before the creed. A good example is aristotle who reasoned a God but did not know Him. I sometimes believe I’m in the same boat while at other times I could not imagine God being so vague about Himself after His revelation in Jesus.

What I find interesting is my world view point is at times very radical when compared to lets say an eastern religion. It comes down to, well which one is right? Can we REALLY know or all we all guessing?

If God were unknowable he would not be God. But also, if God were fully knowable then he would not be God. The issue doesn’t come down to guessing. Rather, it comes down to determining what we can know about God. Then, when what we think we know about God and what another thinks they know about God conflict we must determine which is more true. This is why Theology is a science.

 

[StrawberryJam]

A poster here said that theology is a science.

I object to that and demand they explain how.

 

[mosher]

A poster here said that theology is a science.

I object to that and demand they explain how.

Of course. The strict definition of a science is the systematic investigation of a direct object. Theology is the systematic investigation of God. Therefore, Theology is a science.

 

[Uranage]

Here’s a good article dealing with the divinity of Jesus: gotquestions.org/divinity-of-Christ.html

 

[StrawberryJam]

Nothing wrong with questions. Nothing wrong with asking about the things you are asking.

I hope you get them, and when you do please let me know what you think.

 

[Windfish]

rben20, I have found that my questions are more satisfactorily answered when I go offline and read professional content. I am not dissing CAF, but the kinds of questions you are asking are large in scope and beyond the ability and patience of many of us here. We can only do so much. To make matters even worse, finding professional content is not as easy as it may seem at first. So you will have to have patience. Right now, that is the best advice I can give to you - have patience.

Pure reason can prove the existence of God with certainty. But pure reason cannot get you to the Blessed Trinity - for that, you need Revelation. But it is not as if rationality ends there, for we as Catholics hold that there is rationale to trusting (i.e., having faith) in Revelation. The supernatural gift of faith is the most powerful and most important witness to the truth of Revelation, but there other reasons. The most principle of reasons is miracles. Lest we forget, our faith is based, in particular, on the miracle of the Resurrection, which is a real event in history. There is tons of literature out there that you can read on this. There has also been an uninterrupted history of miracles in the Catholic Church since its founding - many of them are well attested and/or have been scientifically investigated. Miracles are also a powerful witness that show that the assent of faith if rational.

 

[kbachler]

rben20, I have found that my questions are more satisfactorily answered when I go offline and read professional content. I am not dissing CAF, but the kinds of questions you are asking are large in scope and beyond the ability and patience of many of us here. We can only do so much. To make matters even worse, finding professional content is not as easy as it may seem at first. So you will have to have patience. Right now, that is the best advice I can give to you - have patience.

Pure reason can prove the existence of God with certainty. But pure reason cannot get you to the Blessed Trinity - for that, you need Revelation. But it is not as if rationality ends there, for we as Catholics hold that there is rationale to trusting (i.e., having faith) in Revelation. The supernatural gift of faith is the most powerful and most important witness to the truth of Revelation, but there other reasons. The most principle of reasons is miracles. Lest we forget, our faith is based, in particular, on the miracle of the Resurrection, which is a real event in history. There is tons of literature out there that you can read on this. There has also been an uninterrupted history of miracles in the Catholic Church since its founding - many of them are well attested and/or have been scientifically investigated. Miracles are also a powerful witness that show that the assent of faith if rational.

Pure reason cannot prove the existence of God.

 

[davidv]

Pure reason cannot prove the existence of God.

The Church teaches to the contrary.

50 By natural reason man can know God with certainty, on the basis of his works. But there is another order of knowledge, which man cannot possibly arrive at by his own powers: the order of divine Revelation.1 Through an utterly free decision, God has revealed himself and given himself to man. This he does by revealing the mystery, his plan of loving goodness, formed from all eternity in Christ, for the benefit of all men. God has fully revealed this plan by sending us his beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

 

[rben20]

Pure reason cannot prove the existence of God.

?

Even Aristotle reasoned God. I think what you maybe mean is the Trinity as earlier stated. But either way thank you all to have responded. I am making a point to pray more and draw myself closer to God in hopes of not just relying on question after question.