Skipping RCIA, straight to the sacraments?

[nickybr38]

sorry I had a comment earlier but could not find the thread because I am looking on evangelization, don’t know why all the RCIA threads are showing up on this forum all of a sudden.

I would like to relate a conversation (actually a dressing down I received) between a staff member and myself, to the effect that we are not doing enough to teach confession in RCIA. Apparently this person is working with some people who recently were received and complained they had received no instruction in confession or the other sacraments.

I asked them to arrange a meeting so we could remedy deficiencies.

The parties in question had very spotty attendance, were from basically Catholic families, but baptized in another denomination, who claimed to have a solid knowledge of Christianity and merely needed minimal instruction to prepare for confirmation and full reception. In their initial interviews they showed lack of understanding for very key doctrines and practices and we recommended full one year preparation at least, because of errors they had picke up in their former denomination.

They attended only about half the classes, did not do any of the remedial work, on-line learning, reading, journalling or suggested ways to make up for that content. They seldom attended Mass with the group, arriving late for class consistently. They missed the 4 prep classes for confession, and the make-up sessions, and the scheduled penance service.

They went over my head to the deacon of a neighborhing parish and convinced him they should be received without further instruction, which they were last Easter. They did not attend any mystagogia or participate in any of the parish life events, here or over there, to which they were invited.

They came to my attention because they now want to bypass marriage prep, and were amazed when the deacon’s approach to their situation included a recommendation for confession. Hence the loud (in front of other parishioners) denunciation of our “defective” RCIA program.

It is for cases like this that I strongly recommend giving full time and weight to the RCIA process as it is designed and avoid short-cutting, and why I take with an enormous grain of salt, criticism of anyone else’s RCIA program.

It only takes one bad apple to make a person doubt the insides of every apple you meet.

RCIA isn’t for Christian converts. It is meant for new Christians. I will say that. I wish there was a better program for converts.

 

[thistle]

It only takes one bad apple to make a person doubt the insides of every apple you meet.

RCIA isn’t for Christian converts. It is meant for new Christians. I will say that. I wish there was a better program for converts.

I was a Methodist before converting and I can honestly say the RCIA class I attended was really good. In fact when I went home after each class I discussed with my cradle Catholic wife what we talked about during the class. Despite being a cradle Catholic she learned many things about the faith she was ignorant of.

 

[nickybr38]

I was a Methodist before converting and I can honestly say the RCIA class I attended was really good. In fact when I went home after each class I discussed with my cradle Catholic wife what we talked about during the class. Despite being a cradle Catholic she learned many things about the faith she was ignorant of.

Awesome. You got a good RCIA class. That’s good for you. I wasn’t as lucky.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Awesome. You got a good RCIA class. That’s good for you. I wasn’t as lucky.

And yet with all its flaws, here you are. You’re Catholic and receiving the sacraments, Maybe RCIA wasn’t a good experience for you, but it gave you what you needed. Be thankful for that.

 

[nickybr38]

And yet with all its flaws, here you are. You’re Catholic and receiving the sacraments, Maybe RCIA wasn’t a good experience for you, but it gave you what you needed. Be thankful for that.

I studied on my own before RCIA, during RCIA and now after. I learned everything I needed right here, on CAF. RCIA introduced me to people in the parish and made it easier to integrate into the parish.

Which is why I suggested the OP join and suffer through it. BUT I tell everyone I meet to study on their own. RCIA will teach some of us nothing, so it’s important to be proactive and this site, CAF, is a valuable resource so check in often!!!

 

[Marie5890]

You guys just refuse to believe there is an RCIA where they didn’t teach about the Sacraments! Haha. I’m really amazed at this. But your confidence is admirable.

We were given a tour of the church building. We were told about the Sacrament of Holy Orders. They very BRIEFLY glossed over Confession (but only because I had to go to Confession and I asked directly what to do - they never explained what it was FOR, just how to do it) and that’s it. Our RCIA classes consisted of reading the Scripture of the week (what would be read at Mass) and discussing what it meant - for two hours… literally. They would stop every sentence and examine what we felt about every single word before moving to the next sentence. That was IT. That was our class.

This could have something to do with geographics. I live in a very small, rural area. There are very few people willing to conduct RCIA classes and those who do volunteer are very clearly underqualified but in these circumstances they do what they can.

Anyway, I do think the OP will have to sit through RCIA because he hasn’t been baptized and as I said it IS good because you do meet members of your parish and it helps to build a sense of community.

Will it teach you anything about the Catholic Church? Maybe… if you’re lucky.

Nicky,
My experience with RCIA was much closer to your experience. Infact, to my knowledge, my parish still uses this approach to RCIA, including the materials.

Im not sure how effective it really is in teaching when it comes to Catholic teachings etc.

And like (I think it was) puzzleanne said, not all RCIA programs in each parish are of high quality. It does sound like some are very good, others quite weak.

I see the potential of how, well done, RCIA can be wonderful. But poorly done, its really not helpful and can do a poor job.

 

[nickybr38]

Nicky,
My experience with RCIA was much closer to your experience. Infact, to my knowledge, my parish still uses this approach to RCIA, including the materials.

Im not sure how effective it really is in teaching when it comes to Catholic teachings etc.

And like (I think it was) puzzleanne said, not all RCIA programs in each parish are of high quality. It does sound like some are very good, others quite weak.

I see the potential of how, well done, RCIA can be wonderful. But poorly done, its really not helpful and can do a poor job.

I’d really like to sit through a good RCIA program! I’ve heard of some really excellent ones and it sounds like a very fruitful experience. Wish I lived in a more urban area so it was easier to find such things.

They need an online version of RCIA classes that some of us could join in on. Haha!

 

[puzzleannie]

It only takes one bad apple to make a person doubt the insides of every apple you meet.

RCIA isn’t for Christian converts. It is meant for new Christians. I will say that. I wish there was a better program for converts.

yes it is. The normative way for baptized non-Catholics to prepare for the rite of full reception into communion with the Catholic Church is through RCIA, adapted to their own situation, with reception preferably at some time other than the Easter Vigil. RCIA is not a program btw but a process, and the best designed RCIA in the world does not benefit anyone who things they don’t need it.

Repeat for about the 20th time, the best tactic for someone who feels as OP does is to ask for a personal interview with the pastor, describe honestly and completely your situation and your faith life at present, and take some spiritual and pastoral direction on how to proceed.

 

[nickybr38]

yes it is. The normative way for baptized non-Catholics to prepare for the rite of full reception into communion with the Catholic Church is through RCIA, adapted to their own situation, with reception preferably at some time other than the Easter Vigil.

Hmm… that’s not what I was told. I was told RCIA is meant for non-baptized converts only, not for those of us who were raised in the Christian family. I was told RCIA is given to us baptized Christians because they just don’t have anything else in place in our parish. Apparently the only adult baptized converts they get are people who are getting married and who don’t really care about the Catholic Church.

That explanation made sense because it’s the : Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults - Christian initiation? Baptized converts are Christians, they don’t need an initiation into Christianity.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I’d really like to sit through a good RCIA program! I’ve heard of some really excellent ones and it sounds like a very fruitful experience. Wish I lived in a more urban area so it was easier to find such things.

They need an online version of RCIA classes that some of us could join in on. Haha!

The key thing to remember is that RCIA is NOT just classes. The rite calls for a “suitable catechesis” but doesn’t define what that means. Even so, catechesis is only one part of RCIA.

The other three parts are community, worship/liturgy, and service. If your RCIA experience was lacking in the catechetical area, hopefully they made up for it by being strong in the other areas.

And here’s my bias: I get annoyed when people recommend that Catholics who need more formation in the faith should go to RCIA and “take classes” to learn more. That’s not what RCIA is!

People who want to take classes should demand that their parishes offer them. Another option is something like the Virtual Learning Community for Faith Formation offered by the University of Dayton. They offer adult education type classes in various topics related to Catholicism: vlc.udayton.edu/

 

[nickybr38]

The key thing to remember is that RCIA is NOT just classes. The rite calls for a “suitable catechesis” but doesn’t define what that means. Even so, catechesis is only one part of RCIA.

The other three parts are community, worship/liturgy, and service. If your RCIA experience was lacking in the catechetical area, hopefully they made up for it by being strong in the other areas.

And here’s my bias: I get annoyed when people recommend that Catholics who need more formation in the faith should go to RCIA and “take classes” to learn more. That’s not what RCIA is!

People who want to take classes should demand that their parishes offer them. Another option is something like the Virtual Learning Community for Faith Formation offered by the University of Dayton. They offer adult education type classes in various topics related to Catholicism: vlc.udayton.edu/

But some RCIA cla-meetings ARE good for Catholics who need more formation.

Our RCIA class was full of Catholics who wanted to learn more. They didn’t understand the Trinity, didn’t know anything about the Gospel writers, didn’t know this and that about basic Christianity. For them RCIA was very useful. I think it’s because of them that our RCIA was just a bible study. They needed that so much.

I mean, I get irritated and probably sound pretty bitter because there were a few of us brand new to the Catholic Church people who were eager to learn about the Church but I understand that the people who were already in the Church needed to learn some very basic things about God and His love. I just find it frustrating. There definitely needs to be a separate place for Catholic formation!

 

[paperwight66]

You guys just refuse to believe there is an RCIA where they didn’t teach about the Sacraments! Haha. I’m really amazed at this. But your confidence is admirable.

Our RCIA classes consisted of reading the Scripture of the week (what would be read at Mass) and discussing what it meant - for two hours… literally. They would stop every sentence and examine what we felt about every single word before moving to the next sentence. That was IT. That was our class.

That was so interesting to read, because I have just been to a study day for RCIA catechists, where this method was taught as the preferred one for our Archdiocese now. It was called something like ‘Preparing through the Liturgical year’ and was just as you described - we were to ‘break open’ the week’s readings, all talk about our thoughts, and our reactions, reflect on how we could apply any messages to our daily life and so on.

We catechists, particularly those of experience, were not impressed, and objected that what most potential converts wanted was to learn doctrine and also what they would be letting themselves in for if they became Catholic, the difference being Catholic made to daily life. We were told that the study book would give them ‘head information’ - what the RCIA programme should do is affect the person’s heart, and that would come from prayerfully reflecting on the Scriptures.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Our RCIA class was full of Catholics who wanted to learn more. They didn’t understand the Trinity, didn’t know anything about the Gospel writers, didn’t know this and that about basic Christianity. For them RCIA was very useful. I think it’s because of them that our RCIA was just a bible study. They needed that so much.

The problem is those people belong in adult education classes, NOT RCIA. RCIA is for formation, not just (or not mainly) instruction. And – getting up on my soapbox – the parish should be providing instruction aimed at them and meeting their needs. Rant, rant, rant!!

 

[nickybr38]

The problem is those people belong in adult education classes, NOT RCIA. RCIA is for formation, not just (or not mainly) instruction. And – getting up on my soapbox – the parish should be providing instruction aimed at them and meeting their needs. Rant, rant, rant!!

Haha. All I’ve been doing on this thread is rant but it’s just so frustrating.

paperwight66 - They TELL people to teach converts like this? I would argue that the head must be engaged before the heart can follow. You cannot separate the two!! The more I learned intellectually the more my heart burned with love for the Church!!! AND for God. When I started to understand exactly what He’s given us IN the Church I was so moved!!! And then I’d go to RCIA raring to talk about His great love and get two hours of Scripture gazing instead. As much as I love the Scripture I don’t really care how everyone ‘feels’ about a particular passage, I’m more interested in what the passage MEANS. And I was far more interested in learning about doctrine, dogma, Sacraments, liturgy, etc. etc. etc.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

As much as I love the Scripture I don’t really care how everyone ‘feels’ about a particular passage, I’m more interested in what the passage MEANS. And I was far more interested in learning about doctrine, dogma, Sacraments, liturgy, etc. etc. etc.

The idea behind lectionary based catechesis is that the lessons relate to the readings. For example, if you’re going to talk about baptism you might do it the week we celebrate the Baptism of the Lord rather than some other random week. That way you’re tying the Mass together with the RCIA sessions and they reinforce each other.

I try to do that as much as possible, but we don’t do it every week. Sometimes I can’t find a good reading to tie to a particular concept or there’s something that I need to cover now even though there’s a good reading for it later. Or maybe I’m just not creative enough to make things fit.

 

[nickybr38]

The idea behind lectionary based catechesis is that the lessons relate to the readings. For example, if you’re going to talk about baptism you might do it the week we celebrate the Baptism of the Lord rather than some other random week. That way you’re tying the Mass together with the RCIA sessions and they reinforce each other.

I try to do that as much as possible, but we don’t do it every week. Sometimes I can’t find a good reading to tie to a particular concept or there’s something that I need to cover now even though there’s a good reading for it later. Or maybe I’m just not creative enough to make things fit.

I understand that. The way we were doing things the readings never tied in to the ‘topic of the week’. Sometimes she wanted to talk about Baptism (because the readings spoke of baptism) but people got off rail after the Scripture reading part and by the end of the night there was no time to discuss the actual topic of the night.

Honestly I think our instructor had good intentions, she just didn’t know how to implement them properly.

 

[jmcrae]

It only takes one bad apple to make a person doubt the insides of every apple you meet.

RCIA isn’t for Christian converts. It is meant for new Christians. I will say that. I wish there was a better program for converts.

Actually, there are Rites in the RCIA that are specifically for those who have either been baptized in another Christian denomination, or who were baptized Catholic but for whatever reason missed either of the other two Sacraments of Initiation.

The long (2-year) version of RCIA is for the unbaptized; but there are two other versions of it, and they are definitely NOT for the unbaptized - they both assume that the participant has already been baptized, and has at least been somewhat introduced to the Gospel message.

What I think is that people should actually sit down and read the RCIA all the way through (not just the headlines, although even that would clue people in to the fact that there are sections of it for the Baptized) before commenting on what it “should” be or “shouldn’t” be. The Vatican wrote all of that out for us to study and read; not to sit unopened on a shelf while we all give our opinions on it, or try to “wing it” without any direction or guidance from it.

 

[nickybr38]

Actually, there are Rites in the RCIA that are specifically for those who have either been baptized in another Christian denomination, or who were baptized Catholic but for whatever reason missed either of the other two Sacraments of Initiation.

The long (2-year) version of RCIA is for the unbaptized; but there are two other versions of it, and they are definitely NOT for the unbaptized - they both assume that the participant has already been baptized, and has at least been somewhat introduced to the Gospel message.

What I think is that people should actually sit down and read the RCIA all the way through (not just the headlines, although even that would clue people in to the fact that there are sections of it for the Baptized) before commenting on what it “should” be or “shouldn’t” be. The Vatican wrote all of that out for us to study and read; not to sit unopened on a shelf while we all give our opinions on it, or try to “wing it” without any direction or guidance from it.

Read the RCIA? How do you do that? We were given handouts but they were little prayers. That’s all we were given. Prayers and song sheets.

We had three unbaptized individuals in our group and our sessions took 9 months. There was no option for anything longer. That was it. All three of the unbaptized individuals received baptism at the end of that nine months.

 

[jmcrae]

paperwight66 - They TELL people to teach converts like this?

Yes, they really do. In my opinion, it’s probably the most difficult possible way to teach anything.

I understand the concept of taking advantage of teachable moments, but at the same time, for myself I find it necessary to have a structured syllabus, rather than "wing it’ and hope that the subjects we’re supposed to be teaching happen to come up on the weeks when the participants are actually in attendance at the meetings.

 

[jmcrae]

Read the RCIA? How do you do that? We were given handouts but they were little prayers. That’s all we were given. Prayers and song sheets.

Every instructor of RCIA has a book that is titled “The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults” that comes from the Vatican. This book is not to be given out to the participants; it’s not a lesson book - rather, it gives the whole structure of the RCIA, with all of the prayers and Rites that must be done for each kind of participant (unbaptized; baptized in a non-Catholic Church; returning Catholic), as well as recommendations for the timing for each of the four Periods, depending on which kind of participant you are dealing with.

It has all of the words that the priest must say in each of the Rites, and it includes a list of the goals for each of the four Periods of RCIA, so that the instructors can evaluate the progress of the participants.

Every instructor of RCIA should also have a copy of the General Directory for Catechesis, which is also put out by the Vatican, and gives the different kinds of pedagogy to use for people in different states of life, and a general outline of the necessary information that every person needs to understand.