Slain in the Spirit

[MorningSong51]

(sigh) Catholics post here but we are not talking about what Catholics do. We are discussing what non-catholics call “slain in the spirit”

The reason I don’t believe they are having a “God experience” is because it doesn’t click with what happened in the Scriptures. I have already listed several verses to back up my opinion.

The only time I read about people falling backward is those who are unsaved or demon possessed.

What I can’t understand is being Slain by the Spirit for those who are unsaved - unsaved, could have meant that a person had been witness to (preached to - evangelized) and didn’t accept the word of God when they heard it, from the parable of the seeds along the wayside, 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.

So I’m kinda of lost on your question on Demon possessed - those who were at the final condition, sort of speak, of a sinful nature/ or someone who had been cleansed of their sin and then returned back - “worst then the first, as the evil spirit returned”

I believe in the miracle of salvation - but I don’t believe we should renig. To back out of a commitment to what Christ has offered us, the word backsliding is one that I’m familiar with - Slain in the Spirit, means that you are being called out to accept God plan for you. There is a difference.

 

[Ginger2]

Of course, we are not given any scripture that clearly describes what is experienced today as being “slain” or “resting in Spirit”. But is it that unbelievable that an all powerful living and infinite God might manifest Himself in such away? Is it that surprising that people could experience dramatic and overwhelming physical responses in His presence?

Of course not. But the Lord God manifests Himself in ways so that we can identify the True God from counterfeits. And what I have in charismatic churches doesn’t resemble the God in the Holy Scriptures. Worse yet is these people don’t even seem to try to heed the warnings in Scriptures, they just run ahead with it.

 

[Ginger2]

What I can’t understand is being Slain by the Spirit for those who are unsaved - unsaved, could have meant that a person had been witness to (preached to - evangelized) and didn’t accept the word of God when they heard it, from the parable of the seeds along the wayside, 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.

So I’m kinda of lost on your question on Demon possessed - those who were at the final condition, sort of speak, of a sinful nature/ or someone who had been cleansed of their sin and then returned back - “worst then the first, as the evil spirit returned”

I believe in the miracle of salvation - but I don’t believe we should renig. To back out of a commitment to what Christ has offered us, the word backsliding is one that I’m familiar with - Slain in the Spirit, means that you are being called out to accept God plan for you. There is a difference.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. People who were demon possessed would sometimes convulse while possessed by a demon (Luke 9:42) and also when the demon was cast out they might convulse. It was the demon causing the convulsing, not God. So I was pointing out that I don’t believe being “slain in the spirit” of God would cause people to go into convulsions.

There are always “catchers” at these events to make sure someone isn’t injured when the fall down.

 

[TimothyH]

Let me start by saying I do not believe these “slain in the spirit” experiences are real. I try to keep an open mind, because I know God can do all things, but what I have read and see on TV, looks nothing like what I see in Scriptures.

According to the Scriptures:

1. every instance of someone "falling down in the presence of God in Scripture or “being slain in the Holy Spirit” that person falls forward.
2. every instance of someone " falling down in the presence of a demon" or “being slain by an evil spirit”, that person falls backward. And they usually convulse!!!

Ginger, with all due respect, I would like to ask if you would please change your avatar or put some clothes on.

Thanks.

-Tim-

 

[Ginger2]

I agree there seems to be no comparison in Scriptures to modern day events.

The Scriptures you quoted are definitely not the same (2 Chron 5)

They could not continue or stand (stand has various meanings and does not simply refer to standing up on one’s feet) I read the verses leading up to the excerpt in question and those verses following.

Think about the setting…imagine yourself preaching there and suddenly the room is filled with a cloud. How would you react?

Now read the next verses:
Then Solomon said: “The LORD intends to dwell in the dark cloud.
I have truly built you a princely house and dwelling, where you may abide forever.”
Turning about, the king greeted the whole community of Israel as they stood.
He said: "Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, who with his own mouth made a promise to my father David and by his own hands brought it to fulfillment.

Judging only from what is there in a literal sense, it makes sense that those who were preaching would not only stop, but be unable to continue due to the unexpected cloud filling the room.
Then without indication of any real amount of time passing Solomon begins to speak - in plain Hebrew, I’m sure, since it doesn’t say otherwise.

It reminds me of the cloud that lead Moses Hebrews in the desert. The same occurance. So, my conclusion is this is not an instance of people falling down in the presence of God.

As has been pointed out, people rarely fell, but sometimes prostrated themselves in fear or reverance, but I couldn’t find any believer falling backward - ever.

But, I stop short of denying all instances.

Ginger

 

[Ginger2]

Ginger, with all due respect, I would like to ask if you would please change your avatar or put some clothes on.

Thanks.

-Tim-

I have an avatar? I don’t see it. But I will check it out.

 

[Ginger2]

Thank you TimH for notifying me about the photo. If you really want to give the appearance being respectful, it would be a good idea to notify people about such things privately. imo

 

[RyanK]

Well, the thing is you’re not going to find absolutely everything in Scripture. And like I said before, ultimately being slain in the spirit is between that person and God. There’s no possible way that you can judge for yourself that others aren’t having a personal experience with God.

 

[ltwin]

I agree there seems to be no comparison in Scriptures to modern day events.

The Scriptures you quoted are definitely not the same (2 Chron 5)

They could not continue or stand (stand has various meanings and does not simply refer to standing up on one’s feet) I read the verses leading up to the excerpt in question and those verses following.

Think about the setting…imagine yourself preaching there and suddenly the room is filled with a cloud. How would you react?

Now read the next verses:
Then Solomon said: “The LORD intends to dwell in the dark cloud.
I have truly built you a princely house and dwelling, where you may abide forever.”
Turning about, the king greeted the whole community of Israel as they stood.
He said: "Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, who with his own mouth made a promise to my father David and by his own hands brought it to fulfillment.

Judging only from what is there in a literal sense, it makes sense that those who were preaching would not only stop, but be unable to continue due to the unexpected cloud filling the room.
Then without indication of any real amount of time passing Solomon begins to speak - in plain Hebrew, I’m sure, since it doesn’t say otherwise.

It reminds me of the cloud that lead Moses Hebrews in the desert. The same occurance. So, my conclusion is this is not an instance of people falling down in the presence of God.

As has been pointed out, people rarely fell, but sometimes prostrated themselves in fear or reverance, but I couldn’t find any believer falling backward - ever.

But, I stop short of denying all instances.

Ginger

Priests did not preach. Priests were “Ministering to the Lord” (as in fulfilling the ritual requirements of the temple), the most sacred parts of which was off limits to lay people. We don’t know how much time passed. If the glory of the Lord was manifested, however, I doubt Solomon would ignore that and began a speech. The priests recognized what was going on, and I’m sure everyone else would have to. The point of the Scripture is that there was a response.

You can disagree with a Biblical basis for being slain in the Spirit all you want. You can even caution for the need for discernment when it occurs. However, to simply say its demonic is dangerous and lacks discernment as well. You really have no idea what you are talking about, and its serious because you run the risk of attributing a legitimate action of the Holy Spirit to the devil, which is a sin.

In cases like this, it is safer not to generalize and look at each individual case. We are told to test the spirits. If someone experiences a physical manifestation or reaction, it could be a demonic spirit or that person’s human spirit that is behind what is going on. It could also be God. Like the quote above says, these experiences should not be sought, but if it happens in prayer to God and you are being open to the Spirit of God, for goodness sake God is not going to leave you open to demonic influence. We have a good father. If we ask him for a fish, he wont give us a snake? Or if we ask for bread will he give us a stone? No. And I believe if we come to God in prayer and in the process we are slain in the Spirit then I don’t believe that God has answered our prayer with demonic possession.

 

[Ginger2]

… You can even caution for the need for discernment when it occurs.

Which is what I have done.

… However, to simply say its demonic is dangerous …

This I have not done. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

… and its serious because you run the risk of attributing a legitimate action of the Holy Spirit to the devil, which is a sin…

I have not made a claim that anyone specific is demon possessed. I have merely stated what I witness is not according to Scriptures and therefore I do not believe it is from God.

But if you believe those “protestant” preachers on TV are all invoking the Spirit og the One True God into these trusting souls, that ius your choice. I have not told anyone they are deceived, nor have a commented on a specific instance.

I am merely discerning for myself and as you pointed out, cautioning others in the process - as the Bible instructs us to do: (1 Thess 5:21 )

While you seem to suggest I might be sinning by questioning these occurances, I would refer you to Acts 17 which praises the Bereans for searching the Scriptures rather than talking Paul at his word.

Ginger

 

[ltwin]

This I have not done. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

To me, the following quote seems like you’ve made up your mind on the side of it being demonic. However, I do note that you try to keep an open mind, though your other comments suggest that if you think there are cases where this might be from God it rarely is.

Let me start by saying I do not believe these “slain in the spirit” experiences are real. I try to keep an open mind, because I know God can do all things, but what I have read and see on TV, looks nothing like what I see in Scriptures.

According to the Scriptures:

1. every instance of someone "falling down in the presence of God in Scripture or “being slain in the Holy Spirit” that person falls forward.
2. every instance of someone " falling down in the presence of a demon" or “being slain by an evil spirit”, that person falls backward. And they usually convulse!!!

I have not made a claim that anyone specific is demon possessed. I have merely stated what I witness is not according to Scriptures and therefore I do not believe it is from God.

No one said you claimed specific people were demon possessed.

But if you believe those “protestant” preachers on TV are all invoking the Spirit og the One True God into these trusting souls, that ius your choice. I have not told anyone they are deceived, nor have a commented on a specific instance.

I am merely discerning for myself and as you pointed out, cautioning others in the process - as the Bible instructs us to do: (1 Thess 5:21 )

Catholic charismatics experience much the same thing. Don’t know why you single out Protestants. First of all, when someone is slain in the Spirit, the minister is not “invoking the Spirit og (sic) the One True God into these trusting souls.” Don’t know where you get this from. Once again, it seems you don’t really understand what you are talking about. It would be safe not to suggest something is demonic until you are better informed about it.

When someone is slain in the Spirit, they are not praying to fall out. This usually happens when the person is receiving prayer for a need or situation in their life. Perhaps they have come forward to be prayed over, having faith in God’s healing power. In such a situation, the person is not asking God, “Please knock me on the floor.” They would be asking God for healing. If someone falls out, it is because they have felt the power of God and have “fallen under the power.” It really has nothing to do with the minister, besides being obedient to the Bible which says let the sick come before the elders and the prayer of faith will heal the sick.

If someone truly falls under the power, it is not a sign of spiritual strength or weakness, maturity or immaturity. But the Spirit will have a purpose in doing it. There is something he will work in the life of the believer.

While you seem to suggest I might be sinning by questioning these occurances, I would refer you to Acts 17 which praises the Bereans for searching the Scriptures rather than talking Paul at his word.

I am suggesting that instead of generalizing and saying that according to (questionable) Biblical interpretation all these cases must be demonic possession is dangerous. I am also suggesting that it is a sin to attribute something done by God to the devil. So, I would only caution you before you judge something to look at the individual context and the resulting fruit before you apply a blanket condemnation to such a practice.

There are countless people who have felt and fallen under the power of God. They know that it was God, because its affect on their faith and life was profound and powerful. Are you willing to say that their experience was not from God because you cannot comprehend it from a Biblical basis? It has to come from somewhere. Either it is fake or demonic. Or from God.

I’m not willing to tell anyone who I know is a sincere, faithful, and devoted follower of Christ that their experience of being slain in the Spirit was not from God when they know that it was.

 

[Ginger2]

To me, the following quote seems like you’ve made up your mind on the side of it being demonic. However, I do note that you try to keep an open mind, though your other comments suggest that if you think there are cases where this might be from God it rarely is."

I said " every instance in the Bible". I did not say “every instance”. It is rare imo.

It’s like these claims of modern day prophets. If they are all from God, where are all the false prophets the Bible warns are here?

Catholic charismatics experience much the same thing. Don’t know why you single out Protestants…

Because I have never witnesses a Catholic being “slain in the spirit”

But I have a question for you, too. Are you suggesting Protestants “slain in the spirit” experiences are just as real as Catholics? Is that why every one seems so firm to insists they are real?

Don’t Catholics believe in “no salvation outside the Catholic Church?” How can you be so convinced these experiences are mostly real among Protestants? I am a bit confused by your attitude.

Ginger

 

[Ginger2]

I am suggesting that instead of generalizing and saying that according to (questionable) Biblical interpretation all these cases must be demonic possession is dangerous…

Again, I did not say that. I said all the instances in the Scriptures show that to be the case when someone falls back or steps backward - away from God.

 

[ltwin]

Again, I did not say that. I said all the instances in the Scriptures show that to be the case when someone falls back or steps backward - away from God.

You said that according to your reading of the Bible, these things cannot (though you maintain that it is possible that God could do this but it would be rare) be from God. And as I said, your supposedly clear interpretation of these passages is questionable.

 

[ltwin]

I said " every instance in the Bible". I did not say “every instance”. It is rare imo.

It’s like these claims of modern day prophets. If they are all from God, where are all the false prophets the Bible warns are here?

Jesus said the wheat and the weeds would grow together. The presence of true prophets does not negate the presence of false ones. Just as the presence of false prophets does not negate the presence of true prophets.

Because I have never witnesses a Catholic being “slain in the spirit”

But I have a question for you, too. Are you suggesting Protestants “slain in the spirit” experiences are just as real as Catholics? Is that why every one seems so firm to insists they are real?

Don’t Catholics believe in “no salvation outside the Catholic Church?” How can you be so convinced these experiences are mostly real among Protestants? I am a bit confused by your attitude.

Ginger

I am Protestant. And I have no problem recognizing Catholics as Christians.

 

[GEddie]

I was once a Protestant, do not believe in being SITS, but would never call the phenomenon demonic. Involving as it does the (loss of) human consciousness, I’d say that the whole thing starts and ends in the individual’s mind.

I just don’t see what is “spiritual” about leaning into someone so that the body topples like a tree. Also, I know of no Scripture that connects the Holy Spirit with loss of consciousness.

YMMV, of course. God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[Hiskid1973]

Here’s my story…I had a powerful conversion experience Aug.73 and water baptized a year later…Around a year later I was really seeking an experience with the Holy Spirit that powerfully set my faith on fire continuing to this day…I had boldness to spread the gospel…Backing up before I came to Christ i got into porn and struggled with it for years. Now being around the charismatic fellowship I met a few characters along the way in the ministry… Types that want to “push” you so I was really hesitant around some when they wanted to lay hands on me and help…We’ll I got to a point where I was desperate in a struggling marriage and went to a service with a deliverance minister…He no sooner stopped speaking and I pretty much ran up for ministry. We’ll he got some anointing oil on hand and barely touching my head, when I felt like electricity flow through my body and ended up flat on my back…No one else was near me…I could see the others that came up but it was like I was in another world…I heard nothing but felt very peaceful. For what seemed like time past but was just a few minutes I got up…I just felt like I was floating as I walked home…I was wonderfully delivered from porn that night almost ten years ago and never went back.
It was another incredible God moment I experienced in my life…

 

[Ginger2]

I am Protestant. And I have no problem recognizing Catholics as Christians.

Neither do I !!! What in the world are you responding to? Where is it you think I suggested Catholics are not Christians - I NEVER said any such thing!

 

[guanophore]

You’ve watched to many movies, they’re so disturbing to watch and also what evil can do. These movies often over emphasize evil and how powerful it is, making it sound as though nothing can overcome its wickedness. They are making money off of fear.

You are actually writing about two different things, “but it is the unsaved” and “those who are perishing fall backward in scriptures” - which an unsaved person, was never really saved to begin with and the one who was saved fell back into their own sins. When Jesus spoke about sin - he added this thought, " 21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe. 22 But when someone stronger attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted and divides up his plunder."

The wording in this passage tells us that the man who was strong - but, on his own accord, wasn’t able to withstand his opponent - or their adversary, the same thing can be applied to individual nations, as “Slain in the Spirit” can be toward a people, for their sins. However, possession - is difficult to understand. The question being, a wicked or evil person can do harm to others, some are in power as leaders and then there are individual persons (in the bible) that we read, that take in a evil spirit - both types do harm. What makes these types of evil different from each other - as evil can possess and empower an individual on different levels (like Eve - “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”) - we know Pharaoh,and using a scriptural figure, was used to show God’s glory by refusing to let the Israelite go. We then read from the New Testament about an evil spirit that comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it - "Then it says, “I will return to the house I left.” When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. So what does it mean by, the house was swept clean and put in order? Does it mean that someone “cleaned” up their own house without the assistance of the God - they stopped sinning? and that they put their life back in order? (the unsaved person?)

“Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first.” (does that mean possession of the entire body) What is the difference between a person who is wicked and a person who is evil? Are there differences between the two? Don’t both come to the same crime, to the final condition- that being, destruction. Sodom and Gomorrah - 10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door. 12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place.** The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it**

I don’t think anyone who uses the phrase “slain in the Spirit” in our modern time is talking about a spiritual phenomenon, but a physical.

What Ginger is talking about with regard to unbelievers falling backward when encountering the Spirit of God is in the Scripture:

John 18:4-9
4 Then Jesus, knowing all that was to befall him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?” 5 They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. 6 When he said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 Again he asked them, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.” 8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he; so, if you seek me, let these men go.”

 

[LinuxUser]

Of course not. But the Lord God manifests Himself in ways so that we can identify the True God from counterfeits. And what I have in charismatic churches doesn’t resemble the God in the Holy Scriptures. Worse yet is these people don’t even seem to try to heed the warnings in Scriptures, they just run ahead with it.

These people limit themselves if all they look to is Scripture, Christianity is much richer than one book can express.