Slap Them Sooner Confirmation & First Communion

[pianistclare]

If the “bribe” aspect is taken away, then the real reason for needing to go will become more obvious, and parents will be more motivated to keep their kids in until they age out of the program - and start teaching it, hopefully.

Ah…optimism.

 

[jmcrae]

Ah…optimism.

I taught Protestant Sunday School for many years.

Having nothing to bribe them with, I had to love them into their faith, and I’ve discovered that it’s true what they say - the child will not love to learn until he learns that he is loved.

Make them know in little ways, every time you encounter them, that they are loved, and you will see them make astounding progress.

 

[pianistclare]

I taught Protestant Sunday School for many years.

Having nothing to bribe them with, I had to love them into their faith, and I’ve discovered that it’s true what they say - the child will not love to learn until he learns that he is loved.

Make them know in little ways, every time you encounter them, that they are loved, and you will see them make astounding progress.

Of course.
the two main things about teaching is

1. they know that you love them
2. they know you will tell them the truth.

Seriously…parents have to bring them for instruction.
We already see people disappearing in droves after First Communion.
I had one parent say he was allowing his son to take a 2 year break from classes…because he worked so hard on his First Communion. He went to 10 extra classes. And…he’s on an elite baseball team.
So…you might not see us at Mass this season.

THIS is the typical situation we face.
We need the Holy Spirit to work on the parents.
When people are lamenting the state of morality in the U.S. all over these boards…but let’s give people a pass for religious education.
Yeah.
I can’t wait to see what the kids will be believing in another 10 years.

I’m out.
Y’all have fun.
I have Confirmation retreat plans I’m working on.

 

[jmcrae]

Of course.
the two main things about teaching is

1. they know that you love them
2. they know you will tell them the truth.

But seriously folks…parents have to bring them for instruction.
We already see people disappearing in droves after First Communion.

That is on them; not on you. You are providing the opportunity - that’s the best you can do.

 

[Casilda]

In my opinion, these Bishops don’t go far enough. First confirmation and Eucharist should be celebrated after baptism, even if the new-born is a newborn.

This is in accordance to the practices of the early Church, of course.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

St. Peter and St. Paul, pray for us!

This is one tradition the Eastern Orthodox has maintained, they baptize and chrismate infants, who then participate in receiving the Eucharist. Byzantine Catholics also. The children are fully integrated into the church since birth. This way it is Christ Himself who nourishes them.

 

[TimothyH]

Confirmation before communion is the theologically and liturgically correct way to do it.

Faith formation, classes and the age of reason are besides the point. It has nothing to do with keeping people in Church. Contrary to what some claim, confirmation before communion was not an “early practice” but was the norm until 1910. The order is being restored to the way it is supposed to be. It is being restored to the way God intended it.

This whole thing was called for by the Second Vatican Council over 50 years ago.

-Tim-

 

[Usige]

Actually we turn a lot of kids around. Good catechists can accomplish much. You’d be surprised how many of them go home and instruct their parents and correct misconceptions about what the Church teaches. I’ve seen them bring parents back to confession after being away from the Sacrament for 20 years.
Education is never wasted.
Especially Religious Ed.

Lets look at it this way. In the past 100 years since we have seen confirmation pushed further and further back in the US, has it helped people keep the faith more? Seems we still lose people kids in droves despite holding the carrot further and further out.

Religious education is important. By that I don’t mean formal RE classes with kids sitting in a class and making felt banners. Ideally parents would be passing on the faith to their children, but they aren’t. Having professional catechist has made very little impact in the last 60+ years because the faith is not alive in the family. As I have said before, 60 hours of catechesis in two years will not wipe out 16 years of only going to Mass when you have nothing else to do.

Holding the sacraments hostage is not instilling faith into the family. If so then every parish with a professional DRE should see a blossoming of those returning to the faith and that simply isn’t happening. What it tends to do is punish those whose families are living the faith while hoping that delaying it will bring more back.

If you want to do something to return families to the faith then institute whole family catechesis that last year round from the beginning of marriage. Stop treating religious education as some form of school for children that last from September to May. Stop setting a reward/punishment cycle and perhaps people would stop treating it like something you do just to get a candy for good effort.

 

[pnewton]

I just hope they track the success of these changes and compare them to other dioceses, their own past and any other monitoring that they think might give information. I am skeptical, but what do I know. Except I do see the teenage years are turbulent and present an opportunity that no other time presents. If we were to separate all the service, prayer, study, retreats and intense spiritual growth that goes into our current confirmation program, we would lose a lot. The same thing simply could not be transferred to younger years.

Also, I cannot agree that there is a “right” way. It is a discipline, not a moral issue. I know we all have our own opinions.

 

[Casilda]

Stop treating religious education as some form of school for children that last from September to May. Stop setting a reward/punishment cycle and perhaps people would stop treating it like something you do just to get a candy for good effort.

excellent post

This advice should extend into adult rcia. Having missed the ‘deadline’ artifice of registering for fall classes and having to wait a whole other year for a class, is a bit insane. I think spiritually minded folk (religious, deacons) should run the catechesis, not educational bureaucrats. Kids (and adults) don’t need more schooling, they need spiritual nurture.

 

[dconklin]

Holding the sacraments hostage is not instilling faith into the family. If so then every parish with a professional DRE should see a blossoming of those returning to the faith and that simply isn’t happening. What it tends to do is punish those whose families are living the faith while hoping that delaying it will bring more back.

I need to disagree with these few points. I am an Asst DRE at a large parish. Parents of children preparing for sacraments must attend parent meetings (two for 1st HC and 4 for Confirmation - some lucky parents attend 6 meetings in a year). We realize as a parish that most of the parents were not properly catechized. We are working on that. I see no punishment being given to the faithful families. We are bringing more back. Our growth as a parish has been huge over the past 10 years. We even have families joining our parish from the boundaries of other parishes to get their kids caught up and to reawaken their faith. Our parish is known for it’s spirituality and for its welcoming spirit.

We are doing so well that we just dedicated a new sanctuary the day before Palm Sunday.

 

[TimothyH]

Confirmation before communion is the theologically correct way to do it. It is not a matter of opinion.

Restoration of the order of the sacraments was called for by the Second Vatican Council.

ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/ordsacinit.htm

-Tim-

 

[dconklin]

I think spiritually minded folk (religious, deacons) should run the catechesis, not educational bureaucrats. Kids (and adults) don’t need more schooling, they need spiritual nurture.

This would be tough in our parish. We have 1300 children in faith formation. Our four priests and three deacons are busy enough with adult Ed. One of our priests does do quite a bit with religious ed of children be running parent meetings and assisting with retreats. One of our deacons runs the RCIA program.

Oh, and with regards to being spiritually minded, I am spiritual director.

 

[bitterhope]

Part of the problem in regards to religious ed classes–cost. Many parents can’t afford to pay for multiple children to continue to attend classes. It’s compounded by the fact that most programs do not teach any more than we do at home, and all too often directors and teachers look down on parents and seem to believe only they have the ability to teach our children. If more parishes did free programs and parents were not made to feel inferior, probably the problem of non attendance would no longer occur. If our Protestant brothers and sisters can afford to teach their children for free, why can we not?

 

[Bookcat]

Yes - restore the order.

 

[Jeannie52]

My diocese has confirmation in 5th grade. Second grade is Reconciliation and Eucharist.

We never called it “faith graduation”.

Same with me and my two sisters. The diocese where we went to Catholic school First Holy Communion is in the second grade and Confirmation is in the 5th grade. I have never heard of “faith graduation”.

 

[pnewton]

Confirmation before communion is the theologically correct way to do it. It is not a matter of opinion.

If this is true, then many bishops, priests and cardinals are in theological error. As I do not think the Catholic Church riddled with theological error, I will hold to my opinion, and you hold to yours. I know in Scripture, there is a variety of order in which the Sacraments arrived to different people. For example, the Last Supper preceded Pentecost.

FYI - EWTN does not make any such bold claim in this link.

 

[ForeverJoy]

If our Protestant brothers and sisters can afford to teach their children for free, why can we not?

I have to admit, I was shocked and surprised when our Parish asked us for $40 for “Sunday School.” (My term, not theirs.) I’m still not exactly sure what that paid for… books? Materials?

Protestants have Sunday School for 1st - elementary or middle, depending on the church. Then they usually have special programs for middle and/or high schoolers. Rarely do they cost anything except in the upper ages because they are usually doing activities, giving them dinner, etc. Many do have confirmation in middle school, but it’s not considered a sacrament like in the Catholic Church. (Speaking in wide generalities here…)

Families do tend to come and go through the program, but there’s generally not a sudden drop off because a certain goal is reached. Although I’m sure a lot of churches start losing them in the middle and high school years because of sports, girl/boyfriends, general disinterest, etc. But the churches with youth groups and “hang outs” seem to have fairly good retention.

As a Convert, I was was confused and put off by the cost, and how complicated “Sunday School” seemed to be. We could do it at home, and meet with other families once a month, or we could do it at Church. Why would I want to do this at home? (Actually, we homeschool so that’s not a big deal for me, but I can see it being a struggle.) Why do I have to go to some strangers house? Why does it cost so much? Why can’t I just sign a paper and drop him off at a classroom like at the Protestant church? Why is Sunday School such a BIG DEAL?

It’s really quite overwhelming as a Convert.

 

[pnewton]

This would be tough in our parish. We have 1300 children in faith formation.

One interesting practical matter would be how to even go about implementing the change. Assuming those that are between the new age and the old age receive confirmation, how can that be done in a way that still gives them the same attention to formation?

Phoenix is doing it this way:

If they have already received Baptism and Eucharist, parishes prepare those seeking Confirmation within a three-year period bracket program 4-6 grades, 7-9 grades, and 10-12 grades. The period of preparation is approximately eight sessions. There are many resources connecting Confirmation to Baptism and First Eucharist. Many resources are available for all these age ranges.

I guess I am thinking apples and oranges. Our own confirmation procedure is pretty darn intense.

 

[pnewton]

From the EWTN article:

14. Is it wrong, then, to be confirmed after receiving Eucharist?
Of course not. The Church has many ways of celebrating the mysteries of God’s love in the sacraments. But because Rome so strongly encourages restoring the order of celebrating the Sacraments of Christian Initiation, don’t be surprised if more and more communities restore the original sequence—Baptism, Confirmation and First Eucharist.

 

[bitterhope]

Cost is a big deterrent and different parishes charge different amounts. One year we moved half way through the school year. We had six kids enrolled in one parish and had paid $25 each. If course nothing was refunded, and the new parish was charging $150 per child!!! No discount for having six kids, no discount for moving in half way through, no way I could afford that. The only child I enrolled was making first communion (thankfully it wasn’t my twins that year). The rest didn’t go back until the next year and we moved on post and the military chapel had free religious ed. Our current parish charges $50 per child. They offer a payment plan so you don’t need to pay all at once. But you see, I’m going to have 8 kids pre-K through 10th grade next school year. $400 is almost my mortgage payment, almost a months worth of food, higher than any of the rest of my bills, and all for something I do better at home already in a way that my kids understand and live out their faith.