Slap Them Sooner Confirmation & First Communion

[TimothyH]

This is precisely why people like me, for example, are arguing for Confirmation in younger years not teen years.

I think it is prideful to believe that as a religious education teacher (which I was) that I have more to offer a child then God does. The Holy Spirit in Confirmation really DOES infuse the soul with many gifts! I cannot possibly compete with that no matter how wonderful my religious education classes or prayer groups are. This is why, I believe to delay imparting a child with those gifts, and to hold the Sacraments “hostage” so we can keep children in our religious education classes is somewhat prideful. Just my opinion though.

This is a wonderful post Monica.

-Tim-

 

[EasterJoy]

Here’s the thing, when I was growing up, I lived in the Diocese of Saginaw, MI. Most Rev. Ken Untenner was bishop. Right when I was going to make my Confirmation in high school, he decided to move Confirmation back to being before Eucharist. As such, all children who were either preparing for or had already made their First Communions were to make their Confirmations at the same time. Because of this, my brother and sister both made their Confirmations at the same time that I did. Later, Bishop Untenner died, and the bishop who followed him noticed that, throughout the diocese, parents were no longer taking their children to religious education classes after First Communion/Confirmation. I don’t know what he did, but I read in the bulletin when I was visiting my parents many years ago, that he was contemplating moving it back to High School due to the attrition rate.

Currently, I live in the Archdiocese of Santa Fe, NM, and I volunteer as a catechist once a week. What I’ve noticed is that often (but not always), parents will bring their children to classes until the children have completed their First Communions, and then often not bring them back until Confirmation classes in High School, if at all. Most of the students who come to classes between First Communion and High School come either because their parents want them to come (especially in later elementary school) or because they, themselves, want to come (mainly in Middle School). Even so, not many children come to classes between First Communion and Confirmation. In fact, only a small portion of the children who did their First Communions end up coming back at all for Confirmation in High School.

The problem is, honestly, that we have a large percentage of parents who are not well-versed in their faith. I don’t blame the parents for this - they weren’t taught the faith well themselves. And this goes back, unfortunately, for generations. For a long time, we, in the Church, assumed that “the people” couldn’t truly understand their faith, so we had people “memorize” their faith. Unfortunately, most people didn’t go beyond the basic memorization of the Church’s beliefs, and thus didn’t have a deep understanding of the Church’s reasoning. When the rebellion of the 1960s began, it, plus the confusion of early post-Vatican II years, had people questioning authority in all forms. And this led to some “throwing out the baby with the bathwater”, not realizing that the Church’s teachings could not change.

Too many Catholics are already treating their child’s First Holy Communion as the “Sacrament of Goodbye”.

I take issue with your characterization of people who “memorized” the faith as having a more shallow understanding of the faith than those who did not. I knew many people who were raised at the same time under both systems of education–that is, those who memorized in grade school and those who didn’t. Those who did not memorize were not more pious nor did they understand the faith better.

We may as well say that memorizing multiplication tables handicaps math learning. I have also seen the results when teachers dispense with having students know multiplication tables by heart. If you’ve only memorized your multiplication tables but never used them, that is not an education in math. If you try to learn math but don’t know your math facts, however, you are greatly handicapped in learning how to apply those facts in a more advanced way. Being taught the “facts” merely lays the foundation for learning the subject.

 

[powerofk]

Too many Catholics are already treating their child’s First Holy Communion as the “Sacrament of Goodbye”.

I take issue with your characterization of people who “memorized” the faith as having a more shallow understanding of the faith than those who did not. I knew many people who were raised at the same time under both systems of education–that is, those who memorized in grade school and those who didn’t. Those who did not memorize were not more pious nor did they understand the faith better.

We may as well say that memorizing multiplication tables handicaps math learning. I have also seen the results when teachers dispense with having students know multiplication tables by heart. If you’ve only memorized your multiplication tables but never used them, that is not an education in math. If you try to learn math but don’t know your math facts, however, you are greatly handicapped in learning how to apply those facts in a more advanced way. Being taught the “facts” merely lays the foundation for learning the subject.

Actually, what I meant is that, often, in the past, many believed that only memorization was necessary - that the only way to learn was by memorizing things. My point was that, in order to have a deeper understanding of the faith (or of anything), memorization in and of itself is not sufficient. This problem was not limited to learning the faith - it was the primary mode of learning in most schools until the early 20th century in all topics. People would memorize spellers and grammar guides so that they could recite them frontwards and backwards. Yet many could not apply these grammar guides to anything beyond what they had memorized.

In essence, my point is this: Memorizing the faith is like milk. It is needed by all when we are infants. But as we grow, we need solid food, a small amount at first, then more, and more, until we are no longer dependent on milk and eat solid food to survive. We cannot continue to grow if we are not transitioned from milk to solid food - eventually the mother’s milk dries up. Yet that was what was done in the faith - all people were given was milk, and only those who went into advanced studies (studying for the priesthood or possibly for religious life) were given solid food. Yet how could parents or catechism teachers give their children solid food if they didn’t have any to give in the first place?

 

[pnewton]

I would though, not compare what we are doing as a church today necessarily how it was done in scripture. Jesus Christ would not have used a gold chalice and placed the Eucharist on the tongue of the Apostles, then again, Jesus Christ was GOD and not a priest “In Persona Christi” so there is the difference! The early church of the apostles still went to synagogue on Saturdays, did not hear confessions the way priests do now, did not have Holy Days of obligation, lots of things.

As a comparison, it is very bad, I agree. The only thing to be learned by the apostles, and other groups, like Cornelius, the disciples of John, etc., that we find in Acts is to remember that the order is not determined by doctrine, but by discipline, though doctrine may influence one bishop or another as to the order he prefers. Like I said, later works well for us. I know this is not universal.

I highlighted your post above because (for me) this is the primary reason I changed my thinking from later Confirmations to earlier Confirmations. If we changed the order in our diocese you wrote “we would lose a lot” but a lot of what?

I have seen many other ways besides Sacramental preparation to bring young people across the gulf from Youth to Adulthood. One parish used an active LifeTeen program, for example. I know that the Baptist Church of my own youth excelled at this, though that involved money, usually in terms of a part-time of full-time staffer, as well as a complimentary young adult program for college and beyond.

If not, I wonder if we really and honestly believe in what is happening at Confirmation. Confirmation is real,

It is not lack of faith, at least from my own experience. Sacramental preparation is still used if the Sacrament is offered younger for a good reason. While a Sacrament operates of its own actions, the fruits that one receives from that Sacrament is dependent on the disposition of the recipient. So it is not pride, but an understanding of needed preparation, that recognizes the role of the catechist in preparing a proper disposition. It is why we have catechist. It is why we have RCIA.

 

[pnewton]

I would say that this is correct, but the bishops have chosen to continue with current practices for practical, but not theological, reasons. Theology is not dogma, and this is certainly their prerogative. … but stated that he had ultimately decided to return to a later age for confirmation because a) he wanted more consistency throughout the diocese and b) it was important not to make a change of this magnitude before the implementation of diocesan-wide programs for the continuing religious education of teens and adequate youth ministry was in place. In the letter, he said that he would like to revisit the order of the sacraments after the improvements in youth ministry had been made. Of course, that was years ago, and nothing much has changed.

I am glad you posted this. It shows that those who are changing the order are also practical, or to use a better term, pastoral. I really believe in areas of disciple pastoral needs trump theological precision. The Church constantly allows bishops leeway for such decisions, and it was a major point of teaching for Jesus concerning the Pharisees.

 

[Vico]

I am glad you posted this. It shows that those who are changing the order are also practical, or to use a better term, pastoral. I really believe in areas of disciple pastoral needs trump theological precision. The Church constantly allows bishops leeway for such decisions, and it was a major point of teaching for Jesus concerning the Pharisees.

It is interesting that in March 2012, Pope Benedict XVI personally approved of Bishop Samuel Aquila of Fargo for restoring the order of the sacraments of Christian initiation. Bishop Samuel said it counters some false theologies that see Confirmation as a sacrament of maturity or as a sacrament for personally choosing God.

 

[babochka]

You are correct in that Bishops have the final word. Obedience to them is part of being part of their flock, something I am happy to be. Prayers for our Bishops, they have a difficult vocation that is for certain.

Obedience does not preclude respectfully disagreeing.

 

[pnewton]

We are so little. Knowledge is good, yes but even if I were to acquire the knowledge of St. Thomas Aquinas times ten I would still be not much smarter than a newborn baby in the eyes of Almighty God! I do not frown in learning, quite the contrary I am an advocate for classes, drove my children to prayer groups, retreats, special Masses, special classes and Catholic conferences and have a treasure trove of books and videos in my home all to inspire them to learn more about their faith.

But he does have that “St.” in front of his name and we are fond of quoting him. Yet you are correct. Formation should be first and foremost on disposition, with knowledge only being a tool, and not the best, in a catechists bag. A trip of service to the elderly in a nursing home is probably more useful than a day of memorization.

 

[pnewton]

Obedience does not preclude respectfully disagreeing.

On this we all agree. If we ever change here, I will just roll with the flow, with the exception I will see if I might need to jump in somewhere, especially during the transition. I would hope all those applauding these changes will do likewise. Even with a phased change, the load of kids needing formation will triple in the short term.

 

[MissRose73]

Here’s the thing, when I was growing up, I lived in the Diocese of Saginaw, MI. Most Rev. Ken Untenner was bishop. Right when I was going to make my Confirmation in high school, he decided to move Confirmation back to being before Eucharist. As such, all children who were either preparing for or had already made their First Communions were to make their Confirmations at the same time. Because of this, my brother and sister both made their Confirmations at the same time that I did. Later, Bishop Untenner died, and the bishop who followed him noticed that, throughout the diocese, parents were no longer taking their children to religious education classes after First Communion/Confirmation. I don’t know what he did, but I read in the bulletin when I was visiting my parents many years ago, that he was contemplating moving it back to High School due to the attrition rate.

Currently, I live in the Archdiocese of Santa Fe, NM, and I volunteer as a catechist once a week. What I’ve noticed is that often (but not always), parents will bring their children to classes until the children have completed their First Communions, and then often not bring them back until Confirmation classes in High School, if at all. Most of the students who come to classes between First Communion and High School come either because their parents want them to come (especially in later elementary school) or because they, themselves, want to come (mainly in Middle School). Even so, not many children come to classes between First Communion and Confirmation. In fact, only a small portion of the children who did their First Communions end up coming back at all for Confirmation in High School.

The problem is, honestly, that we have a large percentage of parents who are not well-versed in their faith. I don’t blame the parents for this - they weren’t taught the faith well themselves. And this goes back, unfortunately, for generations. For a long time, we, in the Church, assumed that “the people” couldn’t truly understand their faith, so we had people “memorize” their faith. Unfortunately, most people didn’t go beyond the basic memorization of the Church’s beliefs, and thus didn’t have a deep understanding of the Church’s reasoning. When the rebellion of the 1960s began, it, plus the confusion of early post-Vatican II years, had people questioning authority in all forms. And this led to some “throwing out the baby with the bathwater”, not realizing that the Church’s teachings could not change.

I grew up in the Diocese of Saginaw and remember Bishop Untener well. I was confirmed at age 17 in grade 11, and my sister in the same grade but she was 16. We had to attend religious education til the end of our grade 11 school year to be confirmed. I know a few years later, that the order was restored back to younger kids getting confirmed and 1st Communions around the age 7/8/9 like my parents did pre-Vatican II.

Some of those who teach religious education at my church notice the steep fall in attendance after the kids get confirmed and 1st Communion. I am quite surprised that the diocese or even each church should insist or better yet require a certain amount of religious education and/or church attendance after Confirmation and 1st Communion.

 

[jmcrae]

I grew up in the Diocese of Saginaw and remember Bishop Untener well. I was confirmed at age 17 in grade 11, and my sister in the same grade but she was 16. We had to attend religious education til the end of our grade 11 school year to be confirmed. I know a few years later, that the order was restored back to younger kids getting confirmed and 1st Communions around the age 7/8/9 like my parents did pre-Vatican II.

Some of those who teach religious education at my church notice the steep fall in attendance after the kids get confirmed and 1st Communion. I am quite surprised that the diocese or even each church should insist or better yet require a certain amount of religious education and/or church attendance after Confirmation and 1st Communion.

The Universal Church already requires Sunday Mass attendance, age appropriate Catechesis, and daily prayer. Perhaps the local parish simply needs to point that out.