Slavery

[General_Septem]

I am a member of a public debate forum (the URL of which I cannot post because some people believe certain pet names for the excrement of a male bovine offend the Lord) on which religion is an often debated topic. Most of the points my militant atheist opponents bring up are easily refuted by your truely, but certain passages pertaining to slavery perplex me to this day. I hold true to the assertion that slavery is entirely uncompatible with the message of love taught by Jesus Christ and held by His Church, but the meaning of the passages quoted (none of which I can think of off the top of my head but I’m sure you can enlighten me) still pique my curiosity.

Quotes such as “if you sell your daughter to slavery, she shall not go out as the males do”, among others. They claim that passages like these indicate that my religion condones slavery and is therefore evil.

My question is, can anyone explain to me the laws in the Bible pertaining to slavery?

 

[Fidelis]

When dealing with the various Old Testament prescriptions, we have to keep in mind a couple of things.

1. The Old Testament is God’s Word to us, and, as regards Christians, it was written in order to introduce the world to the True God, to establish a chosen people and his particular perscriptions for them in worshipping and serving him, and for the rest us to know his ultimate plan of salvation in Jesus Christ through the realtionship of that people and God.
2. Some things in the Old Testament are of permanent value and some are not. The nature and character of God and **moral laws **never change. We are still bound, for example, to follow the ten commandments.
3. Other things, like all the **ritual laws **found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, were meant (for us) to be shadows of the the true worship that would be established under the New Covenant with the coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Thus these have passed away.
4. Finally, there are reflections of cultural norms found in the Old Testament that are reflective of the Middle East culture of that particular time and place. Just like these days we have our own customs and manners that make our society “work,” peoples of other times and places had norms and practices that, while reprehensible to us today, “worked” for them and made it possible for their societies to function.

Just like the ritual and legal laws of the Old Testament, these last have also ceased to become binding on us. They were not part of the essential message of Divine Revelation, but only cultural norms for a certain time and place. Just because they are recorded in the Old Testament, does not mean they are binding on anyone today.

This is pretty much a true principle to keep in mind, BTW, when making value judgements on people in any part of history that came before us. To that end, you may find this article helpful:

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907fea2.asp

 

[rcwhiteh]

Quotes such as “if you sell your daughter to slavery, she shall not go out as the males do”, among others. They claim that passages like these indicate that my religion condones slavery and is therefore evil.

Keep also in mind that the Oriental model of slavery was different from chattel ownership of another human being. Oriental slavery was often entered into voluntarily by the enslaved, and the master had certain very definite responsibilities toward his servants.

Chattel slavery, such as was practiced in the US before the Civil War, had no such restrictions on the slave owner; it was a pretty evil system.

 

[Nita]

Besides the OT references to slavery, Paul also mentions it in several of his letters.
Colossians 3:22-4:1) “Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, … Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.”

( also Ephesians 6:5-9; 1 Timothy 6:1-2; Titus 2:9-10; Philemon 10-19)

It seems to me slavery was just a part of the economic-political culture of humanity back then (and continued to be for a long time after) -so much a part of normal life that people probably didn’t even question the morality of it (just perhaps the individual morality of slave owners who were cruel). It takes a long time to change some things. Jesus didn’t come to overturn governments, but to change hearts. When enough hearts have been converted, laws and customs can change peacefully.

Nita

 

[ricmat]

The whole slavery thing also has me wondering.

Not that I’ve found any answers so far

But 3 things occur to me that may be part of the answer, at least from my amateur perspective.

1. In our world today, “freedom” has reached the point of idol worship. A bad thing.
2. Our whole purpose in life, seen from one perspective, is to abandon freedom, and voluntarily conform our wills to that of God. We voluntarily become slaves to God’s will. That’s NOT bad.
3. With slavery, it is obvious who is the master and who is not. This leads to the whole concept of authority. The ultimate authority is God. The ultimate anti-authority is “freedom” (as most people think of the word today - as to do whatever they want whenever they want).

To rail against slavery (as the antithesis of freedom) might undermine the very reason we exist.

 

[General_Septem]

The whole slavery thing also has me wondering.

Not that I’ve found any answers so far

But 3 things occur to me that may be part of the answer, at least from my amateur perspective.

1. In our world today, “freedom” has reached the point of idol worship. A bad thing.
2. Our whole purpose in life, seen from one perspective, is to abandon freedom, and voluntarily conform our wills to that of God. We voluntarily become slaves to God’s will. That’s NOT bad.
3. With slavery, it is obvious who is the master and who is not. This leads to the whole concept of authority. The ultimate authority is God. The ultimate anti-authority is “freedom” (as most people think of the word today - as to do whatever they want whenever they want).

To rail against slavery (as the antithesis of freedom) might undermine the very reason we exist.

As an anarchist I don’t share your views on freedom, but that’s ok.

Good points everyone.

 

[Liberian]

Quotes such as “if you sell your daughter to slavery, she shall not go out as the males do”, among others. They claim that passages like these indicate that my religion condones slavery and is therefore evil.

My question is, can anyone explain to me the laws in the Bible pertaining to slavery?

General Septem,

The first thing to note is that God was working with people where they were. Slavery was a fact of life in those days. It is much like what Jesus said about Moses’ teaching on divorce: “It was for your hardness of heart that Moses made that law.” We’ve learned a few things about morality in the last two or three thousand years, and this is one reason why Catholicism is not a Sola Scriptura church.

The second thing to note is that not all slavery is the same thing. There is unforced unpaid labor, forced unpaid labor, chattel slavery, and a spectrum in between. Slavery as practiced in this country a century and a half a go was considerably worse than slavery as practiced in ancient Israel.

• Liberian

 

[suburbanbanshee]

Remember, too, that Jesus said that there were only laws for divorce because of the people’s “hardness of heart” on that subject. He Himself didn’t believe in divorce; it was wrong.

I think OT slavery is similar. God wanted “neither slave nor free”, but imperfect human society demanded that it exist. The laws therefore tried to make slavery as just as possible; but it was really plain old wrong.

 

[Exalt]

1. Finally, there are reflections of cultural norms found in the Old Testament that are reflective of the Middle East culture of that particular time and place.

So?

Many “cultural norms” have come and gone that are absolutely evil. But just because they were “cultural norms” doesn’t make them any less evil. Slavery *is *and always *was *absolutely evil. The social circumstances of the time can *not *change that.

Certian Biblical passages say that God condoned slavery. It’s either right or wrong. God either:

1. condoned it or
2. he didn’t.

If he did condone it (1), then either

A) God has changed his mind.
B) God *still *condones it and the current Christian thinking on the subject is all wrong.

If he didn’t condone it (2), then

C) that certian Biblical passage is wrong

Each one of those possibilities (A, B, & C) are greatly disturbing. But you *have *to pick one.

 

[Todd_Easton]

So?

Many “cultural norms” have come and gone that are absolutely evil. But just because they were “cultural norms” doesn’t make them any less evil. Slavery *is *and always *was *absolutely evil. The social circumstances of the time can *not *change that.

Certian Biblical passages say that God condoned slavery. It’s either right or wrong. God either:

1. condoned it or
2. he didn’t.

If he did condone it (1), then either

A) God has changed his mind.
B) God *still *condones it and the current Christian thinking on the subject is all wrong.

If he didn’t condone it (2), then

C) that certian Biblical passage is wrong

Each one of those possibilities (A, B, & C) are greatly disturbing. But you *have *to pick one.

God’s view of slavery may be similar His view of divorce. Scripture tells us that divorce, though contrary to God’s original will for mankind, was permitted for a time because of the hardness of men’s hearts:

2And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” 3He answered them, “What did Moses command you?” 4They said, “Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away.” 5But Jesus said to them, “For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. 6But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.' 7For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mark 10:2-9)
.

 

[Exalt]

God’s view of slavery may be similar His view of divorce. Scripture tells us that divorce, though contrary to God’s original will for mankind, was permitted for a time because of the hardness of men’s hearts:

2And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” 3He answered them, “What did Moses command you?” 4They said, “Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away.” 5But Jesus said to them, “For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. 6But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.' 7For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mark 10:2-9)
.

This disturbs me on a number of levels:

Slavery is far more grave than divorce. In fact, they’re not even in the same ballpark. It’s like comparing the holocaust to a robbery. Slavery is the reduction of human beings for thier productive value; it is the reduction of a man or woman to that of an object that can be bought and sold. It ignores and tramples upon the dignity of a human person. It brings with it violence and pain. A slave is not treated like the inherantly free human being that he is. Look at the legacy that slavery has left us in the United States. I think any moral person with a bit of common sense can look back on the history of the slavery in the world and say that it was all wrong. No matter the consequences, it is absolutely wrong for one human being to own another human being.

So you’re telling me that at one point God thought that was all okay?

There’s something very, very wrong with that.

 

[deb1]

This disturbs me on a number of levels:

Slavery is far more grave than divorce. In fact, they’re not even in the same ballpark. It’s like comparing the holocaust to a robbery. Slavery is the reduction of human beings for thier productive value; it is the reduction of a man or woman to that of an object that can be bought and sold. It ignores and tramples upon the dignity of a human person. It brings with it violence and pain. A slave is not treated like the inherantly free human being that he is. Look at the legacy that slavery has left us in the United States. I think any moral person with a bit of common sense can look back on the history of the slavery in the world and say that it was all wrong. No matter the consequences, it is absolutely wrong for one human being to own another human being.

So you’re telling me that at one point God thought that was all okay?

There’s something very, very wrong with that.

NO, I think that at one point humans thought that it was all right to own slaves. If God had given no rules to the treatment of slaves how would those slaves have been treated? Probably horribly. But the Old Testament does have rules governing the treatment of slaves. When taken as a whole that treatment is much more humane then the surronding cultures treated their slaves.

I like to read history. I read once that a Roman mistress had her slave crucified just because. No reason. She just wanted him crucified. That could not happen under the Old Testament law.

 

[deb1]

If I am not mistaken-and I might be- weren’t slaves supposed to be set free after a certain number of years?

 

[Exalt]

If I am not mistaken-and I might be- weren’t slaves supposed to be set free after a certain number of years?

Not all slaves. Chattel slavery was indeed allowed under Mosaic law:

Leviticus 25:44-46:

44 "Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from among the neighboring nations. 45 You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves you may own as chattels, 46 and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves.

NO, I think that at one point humans thought that it was all right to own slaves. If God had given no rules to the treatment of slaves how would those slaves have been treated?

There are a whole host of practices that were generally acceptable at the writing of Leviticus that God is said to have condemned. Why did God supposedly chose to condemn those things but not slavery?

God is all-powerful, right? Why didn’t he just lay down the *correct *morality right from the start? Why did he allow something like slavery? If it was really wrong, then God ought to have not allowed it from the very beginning.

But wait! Maybe he did outlaw slavery from the beginning. Maybe the Bible has it wrong.

Personally, given the choice between *God *being wrong and the *Bible *being wrong - I’m going to chose the Bible. No more double-think for me.

 

[Todd_Easton]

This disturbs me on a number of levels:

Slavery is far more grave than divorce. In fact, they’re not even in the same ballpark. It’s like comparing the holocaust to a robbery. …

So you’re telling me that at one point God thought that was all okay?

There’s something very, very wrong with that.

I think you misunderstand the point of my post. When I said that God’s view of slavery might be similar to His view of divorce, I did not mean that they were evils of equal magnitude but only that slavery might be classed with divorce in the general category of ‘Human activities contrary to God’s will for mankind but allowed by Him for a time because of the hardness of men’s hearts.’

If my understanding is correct, then the commands concerning slavery given in the Bible would not be an endorsement of slavery as something good and desirable but as regulations to help minimize the evils of slavery, just as the commands concerning divorce given in the Bible must not be understood as an endorsement of divorce as something good and desirable but as regulations to help minimize the evils of divorce.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

This disturbs me on a number of levels:

Slavery is far more grave than divorce. In fact, they’re not even in the same ballpark. It’s like comparing the holocaust to a robbery. Slavery is the reduction of human beings for thier productive value; it is the reduction of a man or woman to that of an object that can be bought and sold. It ignores and tramples upon the dignity of a human person. It brings with it violence and pain. A slave is not treated like the inherantly free human being that he is. Look at the legacy that slavery has left us in the United States. I think any moral person with a bit of common sense can look back on the history of the slavery in the world and say that it was all wrong. No matter the consequences, it is absolutely wrong for one human being to own another human being.

So you’re telling me that at one point God thought that was all okay?

There’s something very, very wrong with that.

Exalt:

Slavery as it was practiced in the O.T. was nothing like what you’ve described. Here are the rules per the Rabbis in the Middrash and the Babylonian Talmud:

1. The Term of Slavery was 5 years - After that the slave was set free - Slavery under the Mosaic Law was TEMPORARY - NOT PERMANENT.
2. The Master was responsible to take care of the needs of the slave and the slave’s household before his own needs - If there was only enough food in the house to feed the children and the slave, that’s who got fed - The owner went hungry! The same for clothing, shelter and medical care (note the story of the Chief of the Synagogue finding Jesus to cure his servant girl).
3. Work Rules - Slaves were not allowed to be worked on the Sabbath, “beyond human endurance”, in dangerous conditions or to be beaten to produce more - And slaves had to be allowed to rest during the heat of the day the during summer months (May-Sept.).

and,

1. At the end of 5 years, THE SLAVE CHOSE whether to stay with his Master - The Master had NO Choice in the matter!
2. Slavery was usually done to REHABILITATE those who were having dificulty functioning in society - Like the gleanings that were left and money and food available from the Levites, this was part of the “Social Welfare” system available for those men who couldn’t make it wouthout some form of RELIEF. And, Since the man worked for his food and other needs in an “Employee-Employer Relationship” it probably had the effect of rebuilding his self-confidence and belief in himself.

In the Prophets, God described, the violation of this compact, along with other parts of God’s Covenant with Israel, as the reason God allowed the Kingdoms of Samaria and Judea to be overthrown and carried way.

Does this bear even the slightest resemblance to the atrocity that was slavery in the rest of the world? or, What is being done to Black Christians and Anamists in Southern Sudan and Black Muslims and Christians in Darfur?

And, While, we’re on the topic, has anyone here mentioned the atrocity of Chatel Slavery where blacks have been stolen from their villages in Sudan and sold throughout Northern Africa during the last 17 years, where some have been tortured and even crucified??

Twenty-first Century African Slaves - In the Land of Islam
chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=7007&eng=y

SUDANESE SLAVE ‘CRUCIFIED’ BY HIS MASTER NOT UNUSUAL IN CENTRAL AFRICAN NATION
assistnews.net/STORIES/2004/s04110038.htm

It’s one thing to have the academic debate - But we do no good unless we deal what is happening to people who are being slaughtered, enslaved and tortured today.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[deb1]

Not all slaves. Chattel slavery was indeed allowed under Mosaic law:

Leviticus 25:44-46:

44 "Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from among the neighboring nations. 45 You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves you may own as chattels, 46 and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves.

There are a whole host of practices that were generally acceptable at the writing of Leviticus that God is said to have condemned. Why did God supposedly chose to condemn those things but not slavery?

God is all-powerful, right? Why didn’t he just lay down the *correct *morality right from the start? Why did he allow something like slavery? If it was really wrong, then God ought to have not allowed it from the very beginning.

.

God does things for the good of us all. Think what would have happened if he did not create rules for a situation that he knew would have occurred anyway? The Jewish masters would have abused their slaves and have had no rules for something that they would have done anyway.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

If I am not mistaken-and I might be- weren’t slaves supposed to be set free after a certain number of years?

Deb:

One thing people seem to forget is that the Jews (esp. the O.T. times) had a belief in Tradition and Teaching Authority very similar to that of the Catholic Church, and that most of the Rabbinical Regulations relating to slavery won’t be found in Scripture, but in the Midrash and in the Talmud, and that these regulations created an institution that was “Slavery” in name only.

There were two forms of "Slavery under that Regulatory System - In neither were Masters allowed to do with slaves as they pleased or to mistreat slaves as we see in the American South and in most nations throughout history (or in Modern Day Sudan and North Africa).

The first form was the chattel slavery Hebrews were allowed to do to non-Hebrews - But the Hebrew Masters still could NOT…

1. Compel Slaves to work on the Sabbath, “Work beyond human endurance”, beat slaves to make them produce more or work during the heat of the summer day,
2. Make them go without adaquate food, clothing, shoes, shelter & medical care when they had the ability to provide the same for themselves.

I repeat - God took the institution everyone practiced and made it far more humane than it was elsewhere-

The Second form was described by in my previous post, and is described in the following Scripture:

Exodus 21:2-6 The Message

"When you buy a Hebrew slave, he will serve six years. The seventh year he goes free, for nothing. If he came in single he leaves single. If he came in married he leaves with his wife. If the master gives him a wife and she gave him sons and daughters, the wife and children stay with the master and he leaves by himself. But suppose the slave should say, ‘I love my master and my wife and children—I don’t want my freedom,’ then his master is to bring him before God and to a door or doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl, a sign that he is a slave for life.

Another thing I don’t think Exalt understands is that from God’s POV, Divorce is worse than Slavery, because Divorce is the tearing apart of the symbol of the relationship between God and His people, as well as the Breaking of the covenant between husband and wife. Man and woman were and are meant to be one, just as God and man were and are meant to be one. Divorce breaks that order.

And, From God’s POV, a new marraige not only is adulterous or the equivalent of worshipping a false god, it’s also the equivalent of using the LORD’s Name in vain.

That’s a sin against God, man and nature - a sin on all three levels.

Slavery is only a sin against my fellow man and his dignity if the brutality of the institution were taken out as it was under the Rabbinical Law.

For those concerned about the fact that the O.T. allowed slavery, what have you done to help stop the ongoing atrocity in Sudan?

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Subrosa]

I am a member of a public debate forum (the URL of which I cannot post because some people believe certain pet names for the excrement of a male bovine offend the Lord) on which religion is an often debated topic. Most of the points my militant atheist opponents bring up are easily refuted by your truely, but certain passages pertaining to slavery perplex me to this day. I hold true to the assertion that slavery is entirely uncompatible with the message of love taught by Jesus Christ and held by His Church, but the meaning of the passages quoted (none of which I can think of off the top of my head but I’m sure you can enlighten me) still pique my curiosity.

Quotes such as “if you sell your daughter to slavery, she shall not go out as the males do”, among others. They claim that passages like these indicate that my religion condones slavery and is therefore evil.

My question is, can anyone explain to me the laws in the Bible pertaining to slavery?

Slavery in the era of the whole bible was an accepted social institution. The Jews had a law that said that a Jewish person could only have a slave for (I believe it was) seven years. After that, the slave must be set free. The Jews were slaves also, as you probably know.
The early christians were in no position to address the issue of slavery.

During the period of the Abolishonist Movement in the United States the bible was cited often by those who wished slavery to remain the law of the land. But something happened that astonished people.

Some read the Letter of Philemon in the New Testament. This document became viewed as an enlightenment to the slavery issue. It admonishes a slave owner, Philemon, to accept an escaped slave back and accept the slave as AN EQUAL, A BROTHER AND AS A MAN!

This one document became a calling for the Abolishonists and had a profound effect on the social history of the United States.

Subrosa