Sleeping in the same bed... chastely?

[twoangels]

I’m sorry, I don’t understand what I’ve quoted.

My fiance and I have been together for almost 6 years. Engaged for almost 1. Everyone around me knows I’m a virgin. I am not scared to say such. I have no qualms with telling people my faith and beliefs, especially with something so important as virginity. And doubly so when so many people view sex as no big deal in our society.

I am not naive. You do not know my past. In fact, God has saved me from many things that I could have ruined myself with. Safe to say that I did not always believe as I do now.

Anyways, take it how you will. I knew coming in that I would be probably the only one to say that I’ve done it and view it as okay. But as I said in my original post, I do not think that everyone should do it. Not everyone has the type of fiance I have, nor the same personality or faith. Am I being pompous? No, I sin daily and know this fact. However, doing inappropriate things with my fiance is not one of them. Everyone has different things they fall to. Some people are more prone to sexual sins, while others are more prone to sins such as lying or other things.

Now also keep in mind that I am not saying it is something that should be done at all times. However, like the OP, my fiance and I are long distance. And have been for 4 of our almost 6 years. So there come times when you end up sleeping next to each other. Take camping. My fiance and I love camping. And, yes, we do sleep on the same inflatable mattress.

Feel free to judge me if you want. I’m just saying, like a lot of things on the internet, you do not know me, nor my fiance or our situation. So, what you may not think is appropriate may not be for some people, but for others there is not the temptation.

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding.

First a few words to those who posted. I think we need to remember that we need to respond in charity toward people. We can give our advise, but we already gave our advise and she gave different advise. I don’t believe it is charitable to hammer our advise into people when they’ve already heard it. We should stick to logically explaining why something is immoral to educate any ignorance, but in the end whether they accept it is completely dependant on their openness and on God’s grace. Hammering it in rarely works.

That said, I would also advise that when we do feel we’ve been singled out for the advise we’ve given, we should strive to humbly let it go. I’ve seen a lot of online arguments (perhaps in less moderated forums) where they go pages long with people arguing more and more about what type of person they are. A lot of feelings get hurt in this and I think that the only solution to this is to let go.

For my own two cents, I don’t agree that it is ok because of self control and a conviction to not have sex that it becomes ok to sleep in the same bed. That said, I do think there are circumstances where this is forcibly arrived at and we’re finding support in chastity is really difficult. My husband was finishing his degree while we were engaged and was living in a small apartment. He had arranged for me to stay with a female friend of his whom he had thought to be the most dependable, but in the end I was completely locked out of her place, no one could get ahold of her and waiting up for someone to come home could have meant we’d be waiting till 4am. We waited till we were just too tired to wait and overall could not find an alternative. So we were stuck with my husband’s small apartment where he was stuck with a roommate who had taken over the entire living space and left my husband with just the bedroom (the roommate had been there first and it was a dorm apartment so they were assigned to each other. My husband was just glad he didn’t have a roommate on drugs). His roommate was absolutely disgusting. He rarely showered and rarely picked up after himself so as soon as you opened the door it just smelt toxic. My husband’s room was the only decent smelling place. We were left with one bed and a really hard floor, me with no luggage, no pillow, no sleeping bag and my husband really did not have any substitutions. So we really felt forced to sleep in the same bed that night. It wasn’t a good thing, but we felt we had run out of choices. The following day, we talked to his friend, and she simply could not understand our qualms against sleeping in the same place. She didn’t think it was a big deal and didn’t think it should have anything to do with “abstaining.” She just thought we were weird. That said, she did apoligise and for the rest of the visit, I was able to get into her place without a worry for the night.

I think overall, most college situations today just aren’t great grounds for finding support. Most people think you’re having sex unless you advertise that you don’t, and even if you advertise that you don’t, they still don’t get why its also wrong to sleep in the same bed. You’re just looked at as weird. As such, sometimes “causing scandal” just sounds like a phrase that doesn’t make sense. The other students just don’t care. You’re just eccentric to them. But that said, I do think its important to reserve more than just sex for marriage and I do believe that sleeping in the same bed with any member of the opposite sex unless its absolutely unavoidable is wrong. But I do respect that it can be difficult for even good Catholic young people to understand why or to even actually agree with it. It can start to sound like people are teaching their own ideas independant from what the Church and Catechism actually say. The Catechism doesn’t mention sleeping in the same bed. Some people may easily feel this is an overapplication of Catholic principles, just as some couples wait till their married to even kiss, while other couples don’t feel the no kiss policy is necessary.

 

[ExDeoVita]

Hmmm…

Would you like it if your future husband, whoever he may be, is sleeping in the same bed as another lady right now? Even if “chastely”?

Would you encourage your future daughter to sleep in the same bed as another man? Even if “chastely”?

• good points made above.

Also, living a ‘chaste’ lifestyle does not merely mean not having sexual relations. As stated below, chastity encompass the whole human person, their motives, emotions, ect.

And even if you still felt you could remain pure in thought and motive by sleeping in the same bed, the same is probably not true for him. Guys are wired differently, if not for your own good - do it for his. I won’t speak for you, but to think a guy could be put in that situation day in and day out without being tempted to impurity is extremely naive.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m sorry, I don’t understand what I’ve quoted.

My fiance and I have been together for almost 6 years. Engaged for almost 1. Everyone around me knows I’m a virgin. I am not scared to say such. I have no qualms with telling people my faith and beliefs, especially with something so important as virginity. And doubly so when so many people view sex as no big deal in our society.

I am not naive. You do not know my past. In fact, God has saved me from many things that I could have ruined myself with. Safe to say that I did not always believe as I do now.

Anyways, take it how you will. I knew coming in that I would be probably the only one to say that I’ve done it and view it as okay. But as I said in my original post, I do not think that everyone should do it. Not everyone has the type of fiance I have, nor the same personality or faith. Am I being pompous? No, I sin daily and know this fact. However, doing inappropriate things with my fiance is not one of them. Everyone has different things they fall to. Some people are more prone to sexual sins, while others are more prone to sins such as lying or other things.

Now also keep in mind that I am not saying it is something that should be done at all times. However, like the OP, my fiance and I are long distance. And have been for 4 of our almost 6 years. So there come times when you end up sleeping next to each other. Take camping. My fiance and I love camping. And, yes, we do sleep on the same inflatable mattress.

Feel free to judge me if you want. I’m just saying, like a lot of things on the internet, you do not know me, nor my fiance or our situation. So, what you may not think is appropriate may not be for some people, but for others there is not the temptation.

I should not feel free to judge you, nor should you encourage me to do it, but I hope you posted knowing that we’d feel free to encourage you to ask yourself these questions. By “choosing” to sleep in the same bed, I meant that it was chosen when there was a good alternative available.

Do not get me wrong, I can understand how two people who are sleeping fully clothed in different bags but in the same tent could consider themselves “not sleeping together”. Are you saying that you are now camping, have only one tent, believe that sleeping in different bags fully clothed is not going to present a temptations, and that you do not have a reasonable opportunity to sleep in different tents? There is some room for scandal, but somewhat less than if you were in a single room where your every movement could not be heard. That is more like sleeping in the same studio apartment but in different beds.

Consider, though: are you saying that there is no one who is going to be encouraged by seeing a couple that is engaged but insists on sleeping in different beds, different tents? Are you saying that there is no one who sees you sharing a tent or other accomodations with your fiance who does not also know for a fact that you not only say you are a virgin, but also knows you well enough to know that your word can be taken at face value? In other words, are you saying that there is no one to be scandalized by the opportunity you’re giving yourselves? No one to see you and think, erroneously, “We could do that. We’d be safe”?

 

[EasterJoy]

I think overall, most college situations today just aren’t great grounds for finding support. Most people think you’re having sex unless you advertise that you don’t, and even if you advertise that you don’t, they still don’t get why its also wrong to sleep in the same bed. You’re just looked at as weird. As such, sometimes “causing scandal” just sounds like a phrase that doesn’t make sense. The other students just don’t care. You’re just eccentric to them.

Remember that there are people who remember “weird” from their past, and come to understand it later. A six-year-old coming off of the football field may not understand the concept of keeping his hands off of his older sister’s wedding gown, but the sister would have the sense to know he has limited understanding. When he grew up, he’d not think his sister weird, but would know himself to have been lacking in understanding at the time.

Likewise, those who are your age and going to school with you should not necessarily been seen as your peers. Some will not be at a point where they can understand even the most simple virtue. Some will think it weird that you don’t sleep in the same bed, but others will think it weird that you wouldn’t look at the answer key for a test you’re going to take. Their consciences are simply not well-formed enough to comprehend what vice is or what virtue demands. When the subject becomes their daughter instead of their girlfriends, the tune can change to a very different key! (Better that than the cynical or resigned: “They’re going to have sex/alcohol/drugs anyway, they may as well have it at our house, where it is ‘safe’.”)

It is hard to be the “weird one out”, though, and to be treated as if you’re the one who is backward. There is pressure to conform, or to hide that you don’t conform, if nothing else. There are even Catholics who get tired of getting dropped by even Catholic boyfriends or girlfriends for not “putting out,” whose friends call them frigid, Victorian, puritanical, self-righteous, and who knows what else, and they just finally give in. The same thing happens with drunkenness and trying drugs. It is very sad, particularly when all the young people involved are Catholic.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Remember that there are people who remember “weird” from their past, and come to understand it later. A six-year-old coming off of the football field may not understand the concept of keeping his hands off of his older sister’s wedding gown, but the sister would have the sense to know he has limited understanding. When he grew up, he’d not think his sister weird, but would know himself to have been lacking in understanding at the time.

Likewise, those who are your age and going to school with you should not necessarily been seen as your peers. Some will not be at a point where they can understand even the most simple virtue. Some will think it weird that you don’t sleep in the same bed, but others will think it weird that you wouldn’t look at the answer key for a test you’re going to take.** Their consciences are simply not well-formed enough to comprehend what vice is or what virtue demands**. When the subject becomes their daughter instead of their girlfriends, the tune can change to a very different key! (Better that than the cynical or resigned: “They’re going to have sex/alcohol/drugs anyway, they may as well have it at our house, where it is ‘safe’.”)

It is hard to be the “weird one out”, though, and to be treated as if you’re the one who is backward. There is pressure to conform, or to hide that you don’t conform, if nothing else. There are even Catholics who get tired of getting dropped by even Catholic boyfriends or girlfriends for not “putting out,” whose friends call them frigid, Victorian, puritanical, self-righteous, and who knows what else, and they just finally give in. The same thing happens with drunkenness and trying drugs. It is very sad, particularly when all the young people involved are Catholic.

:clapping: I really like this post. It's clever, and one hundred percent true.

Parts in bold especially. I don’t think parents realise that their children just aren’t well formed adults. They think because they are 18 or go to college all of a sudden they have a conscience and know good from evil, truth from lies, right from wrong. That just isn’t true. As I have mentioned before, most people, that I know, below the age of 25 today are adolescents living in an adult body. They get to live out each and every adolscent fantasy unrestricted, because they have an adult body and adult freedom.

But more than that… I hate Satan for what he has done. To me, to my friends, to my peers, to society. Virtue is no more. Vice is no more. It’s a free for all, where everything comes for free and everybody gets what they want. But oh no, nobody wants the good things, the GOOD things as in the Godly things. Everybody wants the “goods” and the sins. And modern society doesn’t say a word. Sin is the norm. I wish some people saw that, even some Catholics. Sin literally means “falling short”. Not today. Today sin means nothing. No such thing. How dare God judge me? I am a human! I am all powerful!

And so, those with consciences, those who love God, who not only obey the Church but love the Church and love to obey the Church… we are “weird”. You can be the light of the world as much as you want - and still people prefer to live in the dark. I pray that God has mercy on us. Just the other day I was flicking through photos on Facebook. I came across a “hook up party” album. These photos were all of half (sometimes fully) naked guys and girls, mostly under 20, drunk, and hooking up. I am not lying when I say one photo was of about 6 couples together in the same room and everyone just with eachother grabbing hooking up etc. It made me want to throw up. And this is not an isolated weird thing. This is normal. And in that photo I noticed one Catholic, too.

A bit OT, but really… there is something going on in the world!

 

[EasterJoy]

:clapping: I really like this post. It’s clever, and one hundred percent true.

Parts in bold especially. I don’t think parents realise that their children just aren’t well formed adults. They think because they are 18 or go to college all of a sudden they have a conscience and know good from evil, truth from lies, right from wrong. That just isn’t true. As I have mentioned before, most people, that I know, below the age of 25 today are adolescents living in an adult body. They get to live out each and every adolscent fantasy unrestricted, because they have an adult body and adult freedom.

But more than that… I hate Satan for what he has done. To me, to my friends, to my peers, to society. Virtue is no more. Vice is no more. It’s a free for all, where everything comes for free and everybody gets what they want. But oh no, nobody wants the good things, the GOOD things as in the Godly things. Everybody wants the “goods” and the sins. And modern society doesn’t say a word. Sin is the norm. I wish some people saw that, even some Catholics. Sin literally means “falling short”. Not today. Today sin means nothing. No such thing. How dare God judge me? I am a human! I am all powerful!

And so, those with consciences, those who love God, who not only obey the Church but love the Church and love to obey the Church… we are “weird”. You can be the light of the world as much as you want - and still people prefer to live in the dark. I pray that God has mercy on us. Just the other day I was flicking through photos on Facebook. I came across a “hook up party” album. These photos were all of half (sometimes fully) naked guys and girls, mostly under 20, drunk, and hooking up. I am not lying when I say one photo was of about 6 couples together in the same room and everyone just with eachother grabbing hooking up etc. It made me want to throw up. And this is not an isolated weird thing. This is normal. And in that photo I noticed one Catholic, too.

A bit OT, but really… there is something going on in the world!

May God have mercy on us, yes. It is not as if license makes us happy. We’ve all fallen short. It is a great grace to realize that we’ve been longing for the husks given to the pigs, to come to our senses, and to finally go home. God doesn’t want self-flagellation. He just wants us to 'fess up and come back to life.

What we permit ourselves when we go over the way you’re describing isn’t life. It is hell started already, right now, and when we look at where we’ve been, we know it. We know how shallow our friendships are, how wounded can be and how deeply, we know how insecure all of this makes a person. Then we beat ourselves up because we did everything we wanted and didn’t come out happy…as if we look deeply enough to see anyone in our spot who is. It is heartbreaking, yes.

OTOH, that’s straying a bit from the OP’s question, excepting that I’ve found that falls suffered from putting myself in those positions have a particular sting: I knew better. I thought I could do better.

What cannot be helped, cannot be helped, but it is important to be prudent. It is important not to give the tacit impression that one approves of the mores that are the average now, though they fall short of anything one would call a norm. Knowing what I know now, in my old age, both my experiences and those of people who intended to really do what is right, I’d say I’d not get through what she’s describing without thinking a) I dodged a bullet and b) I could have been a better example in this world.

The example given of literally not having a place to sleep that wasn’t unsafe, gross or concrete: Honestly, I would have understood if my fiance had let some girlfriend from high school sleep on the same bed, although I’d expect there to have been as close to separate sleeping bags as they could manage under the circumstances. Otherwise, be conservative about sleeping arrangements. There are sad stories in that direction.

 

[twoangels]

Remember that there are people who remember “weird” from their past, and come to understand it later. A six-year-old coming off of the football field may not understand the concept of keeping his hands off of his older sister’s wedding gown, but the sister would have the sense to know he has limited understanding. When he grew up, he’d not think his sister weird, but would know himself to have been lacking in understanding at the time.

Likewise, those who are your age and going to school with you should not necessarily been seen as your peers. Some will not be at a point where they can understand even the most simple virtue. Some will think it weird that you don’t sleep in the same bed, but others will think it weird that you wouldn’t look at the answer key for a test you’re going to take. Their consciences are simply not well-formed enough to comprehend what vice is or what virtue demands. When the subject becomes their daughter instead of their girlfriends, the tune can change to a very different key! (Better that than the cynical or resigned: “They’re going to have sex/alcohol/drugs anyway, they may as well have it at our house, where it is ‘safe’.”)

It is hard to be the “weird one out”, though, and to be treated as if you’re the one who is backward. There is pressure to conform, or to hide that you don’t conform, if nothing else. There are even Catholics who get tired of getting dropped by even Catholic boyfriends or girlfriends for not “putting out,” whose friends call them frigid, Victorian, puritanical, self-righteous, and who knows what else, and they just finally give in. The same thing happens with drunkenness and trying drugs. It is very sad, particularly when all the young people involved are Catholic.

My point was that young people (I’m 29. My husband is 28 and was an older student at his college. I’m not saying we’re not young, but I’m meaning the typical college student who is like 22 years old or something) have trouble simply understanding how its scandalous when their peers treat them this way. You did explain it well, but I just feel like you you seemed to have gotten the impression that I was saying it didn’t matter. I was just saying that even the good Catholic students who want to be chaste can have difficulty understanding the whole “We need to avoid this to avoid scandal.” I just think speaking to young people who are trying to practice chastity to the best of their understanding shouldn’t automatically be responded to with an attitude of “Well you’re just a horrible sinner who is wrong.”

 

[EasterJoy]

My point was that young people (I’m 29. My husband is 28 and was an older student at his college. I’m not saying we’re not young, but I’m meaning the typical college student who is like 22 years old or something) have trouble simply understanding how its scandalous when their peers treat them this way. You did explain it well, but I just feel like you you seemed to have gotten the impression that I was saying it didn’t matter. I was just saying that even the good Catholic students who want to be chaste can have difficulty understanding the whole “We need to avoid this to avoid scandal.” I just think speaking to young people who are trying to practice chastity to the best of their understanding shouldn’t automatically be responded to with an attitude of “Well you’re just a horrible sinner who is wrong.”

I do this all of the time on these forums. I meant to be agreeing with you, and kind of adding onto the thought, rather than trying to argue with you. Sorry about that.

I’m also sorry if I gave the impression I was saying “you’re just a horrible sinner who is wrong” to anyone: and only partly because sinning and having an incorrect opinion are two different things. What I meant to say is that being thought weird by people who were not given the benefit of a mature conscience by adulthood is unfortunately kind of par for the course. It’s very hard to understand when you’re on the ground in the situation with peers like that, particularly when the peers have been reared to be so mature in so many other ways. It is not just 22 year olds. It is the whole culture, up through the AARP crowd. You nailed that one.

I think part of the problem with explaining this is the word “scandal”. In the context of morality, it doesn’t mean that someone watches you and gets all upset. It just means giving an example that can be interpreted to mean that you espouse actions that are contrary to what the Church teaches, whether or not the people watching you have the slightest idea what it is that the Church teaches. Avoiding scandal is an objective matter choosing your actions so that what you seem to be doing from the perspective of someone with limited knowledge is the same as what a person of virtue actually does. IOW, are you giving a correct example? If giving the impression of virtue doesn’t violate any actual virtues, that is the way to go. If someone is going to think the wrong thing because you had to do the right thing in a way that looks bad, well: you do what is right, you avoid giving scandal when you can, and after that it is up to the other person to avoid rash judgement. We’re all in this together.

I want to reiterate, though: I clearly meant to say that your own case, the one in which you were locked out of arranged accomodations, was one in which I’d expect my fiance to put up his girlfriend from high school on the same bed with him. There just really isn’t much choice. If sleeping where sleep could be had gave someone the wrong idea, that has to be their worry, in this case.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I’m thinking about the time that Ruth slept with Boaz on the threshing room floor, yet was hailed as a righteous woman.

In light of that, no. I do not think that you are committing a sin by sharing a bed before marriage.

However, I can think of about a million reasons why not to do it. I’ll enumerate just a few:

1. It’s just too tempting. If your bf is anything like my hubby, the morning is a troubling time for him, especially if you’ve been sharing a bed. No need to add to the temptation. It’s just too dangerous of a situation, and could be playing with fire. I speak from experience. While hubby and I waited until we were married for sex, we did struggle with purity beforehand. Sharing a bed the few times we did (yes, I regret it) didn’t help either.
2. It can cause scandal. People who hear that you are sleeping in the same bed would be easily given to thinking you were sleeping together. They may be incorrect in judgment, but it doesn’t help the cause. Especially if another christian looks up to you, thinks you slept (in the metaphorical sense) with your bf, and thinks that’s OK to do.
3. It creates too much comfort between you two. Not only can this eventually lead to sexual impurity, but it can diminish some of the joy of marriage. I can’t explain enough the oy I had each morning to wake up next to my husband. Yeah, we shared a bed a couple times, and we never regretted it more until the morning after our wedding. We would really have loved that to be the first time we woke up together.
4. (and really part of three, I guess) it becomes too much like you are “living together.” You want to keep your lives separate if you are not married. The practical reasons being that if you broke up, it would be easier on you both, the other reasons being that if you get married, do you really want it to feel as though nothing changed when you merge your lives as one?

Sleeping together is (I believe) not sinful in and of itself, but it can too easily become dangerous. It’s better to steer clear.

 

[afcheviron]

One time in Confession, the priest asked me if i had been sleeping in the same bed as my fiance and i told him , yes I have. I also told him that i have slept in the same bed as her when we were on vaccation with my parents in the same room. He said even so, you should not sleep in the same bed… I never asked directly if it was a sin or not, but from the way he was talking he made it very clear not to sleep in the bed togeather whether having sex or not… Hope this helps… As for the chemistry part, I’ve heard someone say once that Love is not a feeling and is not chemistry, it is a decision. In chemistry there are explosions.

 

[edward_george]

I think another thing to consider is what chastity means. Do you mean that you’re just avoiding as they say “going all the way”? I think its important to remember that marital intimacy is more than “all the way.” Not only is it very easy to eventually fail to say no, but its also easy to succeed at this through developing mental habits to supress and reject the way God designed human sexuality. We need overall to respect the fullness of the gift of our sexuality. Driving down with the petal to the metal with the emegerency break on and your left foot on the other break isn’t the wisest thing in the world to do even if you do succeed at avoiding running the red light. It is important to remember that as intimacy builds in the relationship, you will have to rely on the break and may even have to slam down on the break really hard, but you shouldn’t be having to rely so heavily on the break, as if you get credit the more times you resist intense temptation. You should be avoiding that temptation as much as you reasonably can.

Then as other people explained, there is the concern of causing scandal.

What does seem to be unsaid is the importance of emotional modestly. Saving sex for marriage is a part of that emotional modesty. Chastity just isn’t all about frowning on sex before marriage. In a way, it is reserving marital intimacy found in more forms than just sex. Its that intimacy found in waking up next to each other, that intimacy found in the sharing of chores, in being a part of each other’s bedtime rituals. Its really reserving married life for married life. Its really a part of being able to say after you’ve been married that truly your life has drastically changed in more than just “Oh now I get to have sex.”

I’m not saying you can’t enjoy each other’s company or share fond memories or to share anything special together. Its not just “ok let’s stay in cold water and then when we get married we’ll jump into the hot tub.” Its rather enjoying the relationship where its at, and giving honest expression to where it is at.

Well said!

-ACEGC

 

[Rob_Allen]

Hi, so I have two questions. My boyfriend and I have been dating for 8 months, we are 21 and 22. I spend the night at his school apartment almost every night because he lives quite a bit away from my house. We have both agreed to wait till marriage to have sex, and have held onto that from the beginning. However, his bed is big and I always sleep in it with him. We have never had sex. Is this really a sin? and why? If we truly aren’t doing anything, why is it wrong?

that is the most important question, but I have one more. Everyone says that sleeping in the same bed basically means ‘don’t pass go, don’t collect $200 dollars- you are going to end up having sex.’ As if there is no going around that fact. And even though I have always thought we had great chemistry, and I am definitely attracted to him and love being close to him, it really doesn’t seem all THAT difficult to take sex off the table and simply NOT do it. Does that say something bad about our relationship, or our chemistry? It doesn’t feel that way, just feels like we have good self control, but the more I hear that it is just TOOOO difficult to sleep together and not go further, the more i fear that my ability NOT to do it means there might be something wrong with our relationship. I love him very much, and this part isn’t something that I worry about often, and it isn’t as though people saying that this is weird will cause me to break up with him. it is just something I thought about and wanted to hear some others thoughts (hopefully telling me I’m silly! lol)

SOOO to sum up

1. is it wrong to sleep with my boyfriend in the same bed when we aren’t having sex?
2. is the fact that I am able to sleep with him and NOT feel incredibly challenged in my decision to not have sex a bad sign for our chemistry/ sexual compatibility?

Thanks!!