Sleeping together

  • Thread starter Thread starter laurenzia
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

laurenzia

Guest
Sorry this is a long post, I am just at a loss at what to do.
I am a practicing catholic who is currently trying to maintain a long-distance relationship with my boyfriend who lives on the opposite side of the world to me. I am serious enough about this guy to move over to somewhere much nearer (not the same city but close enough for frequent visits) but before I do I want to visit him for about a month. My idea is to stay in a cheap hotel somewhere in town and ‘live my own life’ there and try and let us have a ‘normal’ dating situation where we arrange to meet and go out etc etc. He is not happy about this plan at all - in fact he is quite offended that I would fly 25 hours to see him but choose to stay half an hour away from where he lives. He is not catholic but accepts that I am ‘waiting for marriage’ but he still doesnt understand why I refuse to stay at his place while I visit him - sharing a bed but not doing anything except be in each others arms while we sleep. Admittedly I gave into him before and we slept in the same bed a couple of times- without doing anything. And yes, of course I would love to just stay with him and do that but it takes away alot of the mystery in a relationship. And also this time I don’t want to because I am aware of the temptations I am bound to experience. I also don’t want to skip the whole ‘courtship’ part of a relationship- we both just fell for each other immediately and that was that- I dont know if I am in love or not but he certainly thinks he is. I dont know what to say to convince him that my feelings are sincere but that we cant stay together. I have tried explaining in so many ways and still he just doesnt get it. Do I just end it? If he isnt listening to me then maybe it is a sign that I should be cautious of? Or should I just go over on my own terms and take the risk of us breaking up in person instead of just over the phone? It is just that it means spending alot of money and giving up my currently good job at home.
Or am I being too scrupulous? Lots of my catholic friends stay at their boyfriends places and stay pure. Is it just the way things are done these days? To be honest, I can’t afford to rent a hotel room for a month or two so being provided for in that way would take alot of pressure off me.
The other thing is that this guy is interested in marriage but is so poor that he can barely support himself- let alone a catholic wife who could have many more children than he could afford. [nor i could- i am also from a poor background so I couldnt even provide economically.]. The problem is I love him and he has a good heart and is the kind of person I could see making a great husband and father- just perfect except we dont agree on all our moral issues! And of course he listens to the bad advice of his non-catholic friends…

apart from praying (yes I have!) what should I do? End it?or just fly over there and hope for the best?

Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this?

And- on top of all of that we both speak to each other in a language that is not either of our mother tongues- so communication is very strained at times.

I cant believe this has happened. Surely God wants me in this relationship for some reason - and I dont have the instinct in my heart that he is a person I should just forget about and move on.

I just don’t know what to do…
 
laurenzia said:
…to stay at his place while I visit him - sharing a bed but not doing anything except be in each others arms while we sleep…
Click to expand...
I won’t speak to much else, only let you know my old ways. I used this tactic several times in my younger days, and I invariably had more significant physical interaction than the girl intended prior to the evening. In most cases it was much more. I don’t know your boyfriend, so I can’t say he’s up to my old tricks, but you should be aware that this would not be a new trick (and it’s a trick that often proves highly successful).

If you have to stay with him, get a sleeping bag (a very small one) and stay on the floor. Don’t budge on this, because two warm bodies next to eachother have a tendency to create more heat than one alone. Where there’s heat, there’s the potential for fire (and fire consumes). Be careful with your soul, and if you truly love him you’ll be careful with his as well.

God Bless,
RyanL
 
Sounds a little coercive. Why is he not respecting your wishes but instead pressuring you?

Sleep in the same bed but not do anything? That’s quite a lame excuse…
 
The sleep-over in the same bed is bad news. It is definitely a very near occasion for sin. Plus, it seems like something intimate that is reserved for married couples.

I am also in an LDR and when we visit each other we stay in the same place, but we sleep in separate rooms–when she visits me I sleep on a cot in the living room (my small condo has one bedroom) and she has the bedroom and when I visit her, I stay in the extra bedroom she has in her apartment.

I also think you need to pray for discernment concerning this relationship. He does seem a little coercive. Also, as an aside, how can someone be seen as a good father when he doesn’t have a well ordered sense of morality? A father must be able to instill that in children. Do you want his morality in your kids or do you want them to have the kind of Christian morality you embrace? These are just things one should pray about when discerning God’s will for them.
 
Rule #1…let the man lead the courtship.

Do not uproot your life even for a month to go live close to him.

You have said you think you love him, you’re trying to figure out if it is the long-lasting kind of love and yet you’re the one considering investing time and energy to explore the relationship when he is saying he definitely loves you?

Look, if his love is real, and the love is the kind necessary to sustain a sacramental Catholic marriage, then he needs to understand from the get go that as the male it is his obligation to lay down his life for you. He is to put your needs, concerns first. He is to do everything he can to ensure you are safe, protected, cared for - physically, emotionally and spiritually.

You’re absolutely correct to hold out for the courtship phase, but remember, courtship is HIS concern, not yours. Stop initiating these big steps. The test is already out there…he says he loves you, give him time to show you just how real that love is. If you keep taking the initiative you will take away from him the opportunity to do so, and believe me, your entire marriage will follow along that pattern and one day you’re going to throw your hands up in the air to say “Enough, already - YOU make the first move”.

I’m going to take the position that he really does love you. That he really does want to marry you - because he can’t imagine his life without you in it. The proof of that kind of love will come when he takes the initiative to scrape together the funds to go visit you, to meet your family, to court you, to ask for your hand in marriage, and to offer you and your family a real plan for how he intends to support the union - how will he provide shelter, food, medical care? What church will you two be attending on a regular basis? A poor, modest or wealthy lifestyle does not make a marriage better or worse, but **some sort **of lifestyle has to be offered in order for you to be able to make a good decision about your future and that of any children you might bear.

Why are you rushing to find out what life with this man could be like? Let him take the lead since he will need to do so as the head of the household. If he doesn’t then that is an indication of his real intentions, but when you take the initiative you remove the ability for you to read those true intentions because you effectively beat him to the punch.
 
I am guessing that were this marriage to occur it would be a cross-cultural match. So many young women have fallen in love with guys from countries outside of Western Europe and the US and find them to be very fervent in courtship, but totally dictitorial once you are theirs. If you were my daughter I would give you as a minimum the same advice Ying-Yang Mom gives. This guy sounds like bad bad news for a Christian young woman. Remember too, once hitched many cultures allow the man to take mistresses, marry more than one at a time, divorce unilaterally and easily and more. Ya! Oh so fervent and so in love. Can’t live without you. Can’t love you enough to come and live here instead of there. Move on young lady. Move on.
 
I’m with some of the other (male) posters. Before my conversion I used this a lot :rolleyes: It is much, much easier to get intimate with someone who already cares for you and is lying right there in your arms. There was a study that showed a nearly invariable trajectory to intimacy based on the amount of time alone together and the previous number on encounters. Don’t think that because you want to save yourself for marriage that you will if placed in the right situation (that’s pride talking).

He may be an angel but both of you deserve better than this…I will be praying for you.
 
I am guessing that this would be a cross cultural marriage with you ending up in a foreign country. Ying-Yang Mom has given you some good advice. Men from countries other than US. Canada, and some parts of Western Europe have a whole different slant on marriage. Mistresses are allowed, sometimes more than one wife, divorce is easy for the man, he is absolute ruler in his home. As a Christian young lady you don’t need any of that. There is also the possibility that by marrying you he gains entrance to the US and then its Sayanora. It has happened more than once.
 
As a recovering sleezeball male let me just say your bs antennae should be going *“boooooiiiing”. *I woudn’t fly over there but I won’t be a stickler about that. I would not share the same room or even the same house. If he really cares about you, this should not be any kind of issue. The fact that he balked really stinks. I’m not saying he is deceitful (although it’s possible), but men’s capacity for self-delusion is boundless.

Scott
 
Hmmm…forest for the trees, people.

Sleeping in the same bed is the least of this poster’s concerns even though it is the center of her question.

Where they sleep is secondary to her uprooting her life and investing money to travel to another part of the world **in order **to put herself in the position of having to deal with the ‘where to sleep’ issue.

She’s considering taking the initiative of placing herself in the middle of temptation and asking us how to convince the guy she’s concerned about scandal and temptation.

Actions speak louder than words.
Her words to him are ‘chastity’, ‘purity’, ‘courtship’, ‘love’, ‘respect’.
Her actions would not reflect that ideal if she were to spend money and time to go to him for an entire month, placing herself within arms reach of him for that length of time.
 
YinYangMom said:
Hmmm…forest for the trees, people.

Sleeping in the same bed is the least of this poster’s concerns even though it is the center of her question.

Where they sleep is secondary to her uprooting her life and investing money to travel to another part of the world **in order **to put herself in the position of having to deal with the ‘where to sleep’ issue.

She’s considering taking the initiative of placing herself in the middle of temptation and asking us how to convince the guy she’s concerned about scandal and temptation.

Actions speak louder than words.
Her words to him are ‘chastity’, ‘purity’, ‘courtship’, ‘love’, ‘respect’.
Her actions would not reflect that ideal if she were to spend money and time to go to him for an entire month, placing her within arms reach of him for that length of time.
Click to expand...
Your point compels me to changed my mind and agree. I must be a stickler. Like you said, he must lead the courtship.
 
If you believe marriage is your vocation, I’d suggest getting out and meeting Catholic men in the same town who speak the same language.

Just because you love him and think he would be a good dad doesn’t mean the relationship is a good idea. Sounds like you’re not even on the same continent, let alone the same page regarding morality and a relationship. —KCT
 
Your first step would be to try to figure out whether or not there is a true connection. Spend some time with him if you are serious. Then you will know. I see no harm in sleeping together if there is true respect, honesty, and love, whether you are or are not married.
 
Thankyou everybody!
I am so glad to have your support and I will stick with my instincts and your advice on sleeping separately. That is what I want to do and I guess it is going to have to be an ultimatum kind of thing because I can’t keep re-discussing it with him… It is manipulative isnt it?

I understand the point about letting him lead the courtship and I agree too - another reason why I want to have my own place when I visit so that I am not just at his beck and call… the problem is that he cannot come to my country until he learns my language- immigration doesnt allow it for him- people have to do a test etc to come and work and it is not economical to just come for a holiday(nor possible unless he quits his current job). I have always intended to move to Scotland and work for a few years(he is from Eastern Europe) so my moving closer is not exactly that much closer - but close enough for visits on long weekends and was in my plans anyway so I am not doing it entirely for him.

I am glad that there are catholics out there who still agree with this kind of thing.

And about the marrying thing- I did not mean that we were seriously thinking of marrying each other but we have mentioned it and we both are at a stage in our lives where we are ready to commit to that kind of relationship. And yes, if things worked out with him I could see myself marrying him.

Please keep praying for me. I have a feeling that the next phone call will be quite a serious one.
 
laurenzia said:
Thankyou everybody!
I am so glad to have your support and I will stick with my instincts and your advice on sleeping separately. That is what I want to do and I guess it is going to have to be an ultimatum kind of thing because I can’t keep re-discussing it with him… It is manipulative isnt it?

I understand the point about letting him lead the courtship and I agree too - another reason why I want to have my own place when I visit so that I am not just at his beck and call… the problem is that he cannot come to my country until he learns my language- immigration doesnt allow it for him- people have to do a test etc to come and work and it is not economical to just come for a holiday(nor possible unless he quits his current job). I have always intended to move to Scotland and work for a few years(he is from Eastern Europe) so my moving closer is not exactly that much closer - but close enough for visits on long weekends and was in my plans anyway so I am not doing it entirely for him.

I am glad that there are catholics out there who still agree with this kind of thing.

And about the marrying thing- I did not mean that we were seriously thinking of marrying each other but we have mentioned it and we both are at a stage in our lives where we are ready to commit to that kind of relationship. And yes, if things worked out with him I could see myself marrying him.

Please keep praying for me. I have a feeling that the next phone call will be quite a serious one.
Click to expand...
Let me just say that I am very impressed by your maturity with this issue. From past experiences I can totally relate with you. I had one relationship where I wish that I had respected the girl more than I did, but of course I was the type who said one thing and did another (not by design…perhaps more by lack of willpower…I don’t know). Anyway, best of luck to you both and God Bless.

-Q
 
Thanks Q.
Just to add another thing though - I really do honestly believe that this guy can accept that would just sleep innocently together (he does have an inkling of catholicism in his past even if he knows nothing of the catechism) but I think that bothers me even more- how can you really and truely be in love with someone and happily lie there and not want to do anything! Either he is lying to himself or he is lying to me - what do you think?
 
laurenzia said:
Thanks Q.
Just to add another thing though - I really do honestly believe that this guy can accept that would just sleep innocently together (he does have an inkling of catholicism in his past even if he knows nothing of the catechism) but I think that bothers me even more- how can you really and truely be in love with someone and happily lie there and not want to do anything! Either he is lying to himself or he is lying to me - what do you think?
Click to expand...
Do not ever sleep with him before marriage if you care for your soul. Whether he’s lying to you or to himself I cannot tell. But he is lying.

CDL
 
laurenzia said:
Thanks Q.
Just to add another thing though - I really do honestly believe that this guy can accept that would just sleep innocently together (he does have an inkling of catholicism in his past even if he knows nothing of the catechism) but I think that bothers me even more- how can you really and truely be in love with someone and happily lie there and not want to do anything! Either he is lying to himself or he is lying to me - what do you think?
Click to expand...
Lying is always deliberate, otherwise it is something other than a lie (error, self-delusion, etc.) So I am inclined to agree with YinYangmom that he has some affection for you, but he is simply not morally equipped to recognize the proper way to go about it. Poorly morally formed guys tend to trade declarations of love in exchange for physical intimacy; girls tend to trade physical intimacy in exchange for declarations of love. It’s not hard to figure out whose making off like a bandit in that arrangement.
 
laurenzia said:
. He is not catholic but accepts that I am ‘waiting for marriage’ but he still doesnt understand why I refuse to stay at his place while I visit him - sharing a bed but not doing anything except be in each others arms while we sleep. do…
Click to expand...
well I know what I would say if you were my daughter: duh, what do you think sleeping together means? if you think I am buying any of this you are nuts. If I had any say in the plan, was asked to okay it or finance it the answer would be no, over my dead body.
 
laurenzia said:
Thankyou everybody!
I am so glad to have your support and I will stick with my instincts and your advice on sleeping separately. That is what I want to do and I guess it is going to have to be an ultimatum kind of thing because I can’t keep re-discussing it with him… It is manipulative isnt it?

I understand the point about letting him lead the courtship and I agree too - another reason why I want to have my own place when I visit so that I am not just at his beck and call… the problem is that he cannot come to my country until he learns my language- immigration doesnt allow it for him- people have to do a test etc to come and work and it is not economical to just come for a holiday(nor possible unless he quits his current job). I have always intended to move to Scotland and work for a few years(he is from Eastern Europe) so my moving closer is not exactly that much closer - but close enough for visits on long weekends and was in my plans anyway so I am not doing it entirely for him.

I am glad that there are catholics out there who still agree with this kind of thing.

And about the marrying thing- I did not mean that we were seriously thinking of marrying each other but we have mentioned it and we both are at a stage in our lives where we are ready to commit to that kind of relationship. And yes, if things worked out with him I could see myself marrying him.

Please keep praying for me. I have a feeling that the next phone call will be quite a serious one.
Click to expand...
I’m confused I thought you said you were going over for a months vacation and staying an hour away from him. Now you are saying you are planning on going to Scotland that’s not that close if he is in Eastern Europe. I come from Scotland that is quite a distance from Eastern Europe. There are not many flights that go from Scotland directly to Eastern Europe you first have to fly to Heathrow then transfer. And I might add very expensive to go for weekend jaunts since you would have to fly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top