Sleeping with friend: mortally sinful?

[pcg2]

OP, what you are doing is wrong in many ways:

1. You assume no one thinks any ill of this. You write, “…she is close to all of her neighbors (the only people that would see my friend and I), and they know that we are all just friends and that she is the most innocent girl they’ve ever met. They definitely don’t think that she is easy.”

–No, you have no idea what “they” think, because “they” are not just the roommates, “they” also include, for example, the suitemates’ visitors…(who may hear about overnight visitors)…and people who the suitemates talk to…etc. Like many dorms – do you need to show an ID card to get in at the front desk? If so, you can count on the resident assistant at the desk to know who stays overnight…and most people will assume that overnight visitors are not just “hanging out,” and they will talk to people, too. Moreover, I will assure you that college is the place lots and lots of “innocent” people lose that innocence, and I can also assure you that some of the suitemates may be making assumptions…

No, nobody knows that I am ever in her room besides her suite-mates. No front desk, no RA, no nothing. I see your point, but most of her suite-mates know that we are both committed to living chastely and purely, and that we both (especially me) take our sexuality very seriously. I don’t see how they could make assumptions, seeing as how we have the door open most of the time, and when I sleep on the floor 95% of the time.

1. Even if the other “friend” has been present 100% of the time so far, there will come a time when he isn’t, for whatever reason. When that occurs, you, and the loung lady, will be placed in a bad situation, simply because you’re young, you like one another, you may be tired, you and her may be having some sort of emotional connection, whatever – and one thing can lead to another.

Yes, there have been times when he wasn’t present. But is it really that wrong to simply lay on the floor while she sleeps in her bed? We are friends – nothing more. I used to have feelings for her, but after spending time with her, I now realize that we are best as just friends. She is probably my best (girl)friend here at college and I have absolutely no intentions of ever leading her away from God.

1. Even if you can control yourself, many others can’t. You are still sending the signal to the young lady, and everyone who sees you, that it’s ok for unmarried people to spend the night in the rooms of those of other genders. What happens when she invites some other guy over when you’re not around, and he misunderstands her intentions and comes on to her? Also, your staying leads her to believe that she can do this with others – which may place her at bodily risk some day.

This hit me hard. I think you’re right about this one. I would never want any man to ever try anything with her. But in her defense, she never “allowed” me to sleep over until we were already good friends and she knew that I was somebody that could be trusted. I had already proven to her through my actions that I am striving to live out my manhood in a holy way – she is extremely intelligent and wouldn’t allow just anybody in her room (let alone let anybody sleep there).

1. There’s something unique about spending the night sleeping next to someone of the other gender, who you really like and have a connection with, even if all you’re doing is sleeping. That uniqueness is part of what makes marriage wonderful – when you’re married you get to sleep with your spouse (i.e. actually sleep!). What you’re doing becomes a weird caricature of that. Even if you can handle that, the young lady is being misled/fooled into throwing away her entitlement to that uniqueness, down the road.

This also struck home… I believe that you’re right, sleeping next to someone of the opposite sex in their bed is something that should be reserved for married couples – it’s special. I am never going to do this again, for her sake, for mine, and for our future spouses. But i still hold that there is nothing wrong with sleeping on the floor.

Have you ever seen the TV commercial where a person helps someone out, and some other person sees the event from afar…then THAT person helps someone out later…and another person sees THAT from afar, etc.? You’re doing this, in reverse. We are ALL role models for our faith, for the rest of the world. Don’t think that someone – a suitemate, a desk assistant who sees you come in the PM & leave in the AM, a visiting parent, etc., – isn’t seeing what you do, between coming & going at odd hours, or whatever…and don’t think, in some tiny way, that your doing these things doesn’t contributes to the general immorality, or sense of immorality that viewer may hold, of what goes on in the world today, and on college campuses.

Spend the night in your room. She stays in hers. 'Nuff said.

I go to UCLA – a HUGE school. No one notices where I am going, let alone anyone else. If there just so happened to be someone who (somehow) was stalking me and watching every time I went into the building, in the elevator, up to her room on the 5th story and then into her specific suite, and then from that thought that we were doing something immoral, then that’s called judgmentalism. This is such a huge school that no ones what anyone is doing – for all anybody knows, I am going up to her lounge to study. I don’t think that your analogy applies here, and I just don’t believe that I am causing any harm, provided that I sleep on the floor

 

[Lycorth]

Some great responses, here.

It’s not a sin, but it is an occasion of sin, and potentially scandalous. I used to sleep like that with my ex-fiance very often; we never had sex but we did quite a few other things that unmarried couples should never do, and the temptation was simply too great. Even for two people who firmly believed that extra-marital sexual congress was sinful, the devil eventually won out, and usually does.

It’s best simply to not give the devil a chance at all.

 

[pcg2]

Some great responses, here.

It’s not a sin, but it is an occasion of sin, and potentially scandalous. I used to sleep like that with my ex-fiance very often; we never had sex but we did quite a few other things that unmarried couples should never do, and the temptation was simply too great. Even for two people who firmly believed that extra-marital sexual congress was sinful, the devil eventually won out, and usually does.

It’s best simply to not give the devil a chance at all.

I agree with everything you just said

However, we are not in a relationship, nor do I have feelings for her. Is it really sinful to simply lay on the floor?

 

[eucharisteo]

The problem I see is that you are setting the stage for others to follow suit. Other people may end up doing this against what the Church teaches us to do in similar situations. How many women will you sleep with and then explain this to a wife, should you have one. What will you tell your children. I see youth at play here. What about the reputation of the girl you’re ruining? The gentleman thing to do is not to do it at all. I see a lazy young man unwilling to do what he should. I pray that my son exercises more prudence.

 

[pcg2]

The problem I see is that you are setting the stage for others to follow suit. Other people may end up doing this against what the Church teaches us to do in similar situations. How many women will you sleep with and then explain this to a wife, should you have one. What will you tell your children. I see youth at play here. What about the reputation of the girl you’re ruining? The gentleman thing to do is not to do it at all. I see a lazy young man unwilling to do what he should. I pray that my son exercises more prudence.

How many more women will i sleep with? lol. like i’ve made clear in previous posts, I have no intention of ever sleeping in the same bed with her, nor anyone else (except my wife), ever again. I will tell my children that when I was in college I was sleeping in the same room as my friend, on the floor, with no intention of causing scandal for her or leading her away from God in any way.

And I’m not lethargic — I simply don’t agree with you.

 

[pcg2]

Ok, so it seems like the thing most of you seem to have with my situation is the “scandal” it would be causing. And I agree – I shouldn’t be sleeping in the same bed as her. It is disrespectful and ungentleman-like. However, is there still scandal if I simply lay on the floor?

 

[eucharisteo]

Yes. It is scandalous. You are a product of the 20th century. Sorry, but you have your priorities out of wack here. Tell your pastor and then make a prudent decision based on what he tells you. I think you already know the answer to your own question, which is why you came on her in the first place. I strongly suspect that you truly have stronger feelings about her and don’t want to let go of the situation. That’s my instinct talking.

Sleep in the hallway on the floor then. Go sleep in your car. Not man enough to me a man? I’ve slept in cars, ground, trucks, snow, water, all kinds of strange places. You can do it.

Trust me on this. I have much to be ashamed of and have made many mistakes, don’t make the same ones I made. I would love to write a story about my conversion experience but it might scandalize someone who has sense move on with her life many years ago and has grown children. So, I choose not to write about it even if it would cause more people to convert. My point is don’t do things you might regret later in life.

 

[pcg2]

Yes. It is scandalous. You are a product of the 20th century. Sorry, but you have your priorities out of wack here. Tell your pastor and then make a prudent decision based on what he tells you. I think you already know the answer to your own question, which is why you came on her in the first place. I strongly suspect that you truly have stronger feelings about her and don’t want to let go of the situation. That’s my instinct talking.

Nope. Even if I did like her, I would still be just as willing/unwilling as I am now. She’s my sister-in-Christ regardless of how I feel about her.

Sleep in the hallway on the floor then. Go sleep in your car. Not man enough to me a man? I’ve slept in cars, ground, trucks, snow, water, all kinds of strange places. You can do it.

Yes, I can. The question is do I need to.

Trust me on this. I have much to be ashamed of and have made many mistakes, don’t make the same ones I made. I would love to write a story about my conversion experience but it might scandalize someone who has sense move on with her life many years ago and has grown children. So, I choose not to write about it even if it would cause more people to convert. My point is don’t do things you might regret later in life.

You and I share this in common. The reason I “converted” and started taking my faith so seriously was because of sexual mistakes I made in my past. Amazing how God allows good to come out of horrible situations, huh?

On an unrelated note, thank you for taking the time to answer my question and trying to guide me on the most holy path It’s heartening to see how totally unrelated strangers are willing to help one another… I am going to pray about this and talk to a priest during my next confession, as you suggested. When it’s all said and done, I just want to come to the decision that God wants me to come to.

Because I had no intention of causing her scandal, this was not a mortal sin, correct?

 

[trans_am]

Is it a mortal sin? I don’t think so.

Should you do it again (even on the floor)? I don’t think so.

Just go home and sleep in your own bed, and you’ll know you aren’t harming her reputation. Good luck and God bless you both. Tom

 

[eucharisteo]

pcg2
Thank you for your kind words. I’d like to express the formation I went through in the seminary. One of the required formations for seminarians is to go through things like moral theology and marriage issues, like sex and stuff like that. It is true that by your staying with your friend you are creating scandal and for your own soul’s sake, not to mention your friend’s, you really need to step up to the plate and handle this carefully. I hope you find a good confessor to tell this story to for your sake. In my case dealing with sex, I didn’t have sex with her but did far more than I should have after trying to run from my vocation, trying to prove my heterosexuality after a couple of bad experiences with men trying to take advantage of my naivety. No excuse, but I know what led me to it. Prior to a priest and seminarian trying to conquer me to my ignorance I got the shock of a lifetime and ran like the bageebees from God and my vocation. I wished it away in the wind over some bad people that were banned later on. My mom was never supportive of me becoming a priest. My sins are great and I am deeply ashamed of them. Had I had a better family support system in place people might be calling me Fr. Mark. The old girlfriend is on my Facebook as well as a few other girlfriends from high school. They were more like friends/sisters.

I’m happily married now and there is nothing about me that my wife doesn’t know. I believe we are obligated to let our spouses know our sexual past because whoever you sleep with you take with you in your marriage bed. My wife’s only experience with sex was as a teenage rape victim. In essence that is what brought us together. Topics about sex are no joking matter. Giving people scandal is no joking matter. Please go speak to a priest about this for you own sake and thanks for putting up with me. I’ll be praying for you.

 

[baltobetsy]

The people who see you walking out of her room in the morning will not know you slept on the floor.

 

[eucharisteo]

pcg2
Unsubscribing to this thread now. Good luck making a right decision.

 

[VonDerTann]

OP:

Respectfully, you are coming up with a lot of increasingly odd reasons for doing what you are doing. I think there are 2 issues at stake:

1. How all of this impacts you, and the young lady, today, and
2. How this impacts others, and/or you both, down the road.

With all due respect, you seem wholly concerned only with #1, and even then you have no good reason for doing what you are doing:

As to #1, you are convinced that no one at UCLA knows what you are doing, except those who know you and her are 100% innocent. Trust me on this – no matter how many times you deny fooling around with this woman, expressly or otherwise, someone will suspect otherwise. They may not say it…but they will suspect it.

Also as to #1, you never seem to explain why you want to sleep on this lady’s floor. In fact, some might allege that your supposed lack of desire for her makes your overnight visits even harder to understand or weirder if you want to call it that. Deliberately sleep on the floor of a woman you have no alleged interest in, when you can have your own nice warm bed? And your reason for this is…is…is…what, again?

Also as to #1, I’m sorry - no amount of your saying “She’s my sister in Christ” will convince me that you have no romatic interest in her or vice versa. Why not? Because you slept overnight in the same bed with her. That’s not something “just friends” do.

As to #2 – you acknowledge that this is maybe setting her up from problems with other guys down the road. Wouldn’t that alone convince you to stay home nites?

There’s another aspect of #2 you are overlooking: Even if eveyone thinks you are chaste – and I’m not convinced – there’s another ill aspect of these overnight visits, namely, if you really think she’s not for you, and you for her, long-term, these overnight visits waste a lot of precious time, for you and her. People in college know who’s sleeping with whom, and they act accordingly. Perhaps someone who does like her, as you profess not to, is not askign her out because he hears she has a boyfriend, even if you aren’t, in which case you have kept her from a relationship, all because you wanted her floor. Perhaps she is bonding with you, in a way you are not prepared for, because she thinks you do like her in some romantic manner.

Finally, IMHO ALL of our behaviour should be guided by the “tell mom & dad” standard. Would you want her mother & father knowing what you are doing? What about your parents?

You have asserted absolutely no good reason for behaviour which appears odd and, if not necesasrily sinful (and I cannot say definitively) nonetheless seems to be an occasion of sin, and just plain warped on top of that. Please, stay home nites – if you don’t, you’ll soon come to think of this girl’s room AS your home, and things will go downhill from there.

 

[pcg2]

pcg2
Thank you for your kind words. I’d like to express the formation I went through in the seminary. One of the required formations for seminarians is to go through things like moral theology and marriage issues, like sex and stuff like that. It is true that by your staying with your friend you are creating scandal and for your own soul’s sake, not to mention your friend’s, you really need to step up to the plate and handle this carefully. I hope you find a good confessor to tell this story to for your sake. In my case dealing with sex, I didn’t have sex with her but did far more than I should have after trying to run from my vocation, trying to prove my heterosexuality after a couple of bad experiences with men trying to take advantage of my naivety. No excuse, but I know what led me to it. Prior to a priest and seminarian trying to conquer me to my ignorance I got the shock of a lifetime and ran like the bageebees from God and my vocation. I wished it away in the wind over some bad people that were banned later on. My mom was never supportive of me becoming a priest. My sins are great and I am deeply ashamed of them. Had I had a better family support system in place people might be calling me Fr. Mark. The old girlfriend is on my Facebook as well as a few other girlfriends from high school. They were more like friends/sisters.

I’m happily married now and there is nothing about me that my wife doesn’t know. I believe we are obligated to let our spouses know our sexual past because whoever you sleep with you take with you in your marriage bed. My wife’s only experience with sex was as a teenage rape victim. In essence that is what brought us together. Topics about sex are no joking matter. Giving people scandal is no joking matter. Please go speak to a priest about this for you own sake and thanks for putting up with me. I’ll be praying for you.

Thank you for sharing your story

If you don’t mind me asking, what was it that made you go out of the seminary and realize that God was calling you to the married life?

 

[pcg2]

OP:

Respectfully, you are coming up with a lot of increasingly odd reasons for doing what you are doing. I think there are 2 issues at stake:

1. How all of this impacts you, and the young lady, today, and
2. How this impacts others, and/or you both, down the road.

With all due respect, you seem wholly concerned only with #1, and even then you have no good reason for doing what you are doing:

As to #1, you are convinced that no one at UCLA knows what you are doing, except those who know you and her are 100% innocent. Trust me on this – no matter how many times you deny fooling around with this woman, expressly or otherwise, someone will suspect otherwise. They may not say it…but they will suspect it.

Also as to #1, you never seem to explain why you want to sleep on this lady’s floor. In fact, some might allege that your supposed lack of desire for her makes your overnight visits even harder to understand or weirder if you want to call it that. Deliberately sleep on the floor of a woman you have no alleged interest in, when you can have your own nice warm bed? And your reason for this is…is…is…what, again?

Also as to #1, I’m sorry - no amount of your saying “She’s my sister in Christ” will convince me that you have no romatic interest in her or vice versa. Why not? Because you slept overnight in the same bed with her. That’s not something “just friends” do.

As to #2 – you acknowledge that this is maybe setting her up from problems with other guys down the road. Wouldn’t that alone convince you to stay home nites?

There’s another aspect of #2 you are overlooking: Even if eveyone thinks you are chaste – and I’m not convinced – there’s another ill aspect of these overnight visits, namely, if you really think she’s not for you, and you for her, long-term, these overnight visits waste a lot of precious time, for you and her. People in college know who’s sleeping with whom, and they act accordingly. Perhaps someone who does like her, as you profess not to, is not askign her out because he hears she has a boyfriend, even if you aren’t, in which case you have kept her from a relationship, all because you wanted her floor. Perhaps she is bonding with you, in a way you are not prepared for, because she thinks you do like her in some romantic manner.

Finally, IMHO ALL of our behaviour should be guided by the “tell mom & dad” standard. Would you want her mother & father knowing what you are doing? What about your parents?

You have asserted absolutely no good reason for behaviour which appears odd and, if not necesasrily sinful (and I cannot say definitively) nonetheless seems to be an occasion of sin, and just plain warped on top of that. Please, stay home nites – if you don’t, you’ll soon come to think of this girl’s room AS your home, and things will go downhill from there.

Pretty much agree with (almost) everything you said. Thanks for the reply.

I now realize that this wasn’t something that I shouldn’t have been doing. I confessed it, and now I am going to move on!

 

[Listener]

The guy who posted this should re-phrase his question as, “Is it okay to fall asleep with a lighted cigarette in my hand?”

Years ago, men were not allowed in women’s rooms in college dorms. There were men’s dorms and women’s dorms.

That said, this “friend” of his might make a great wife! It is not a bad thing to have a spouse who is also a friend.

 

[JAW642]

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From JAW642 on 05/03/2010

To pcg2

Assuming that everything you said is true, about this being a platonic relationship, and that you and your girl-friend ( female friend ) do not engage in sexual activity, then I think it is perfectly acceptable for you to sleep over in her dorm room, and even in the bed with her.

In my opinion, as long as nothing sexual happens, you are not committing any sin, and especially not mortal sin.

It is simply more practical NOT to sleep on the hard floor, when you can be sleeping in a nice soft bed?

I think that you do not realize that a person is only responsible for what is PROBABLE, and not for what is POSSIBLE.

Is it reasonable or logical to never see this girl again, or for that matter any other girl, because it is POSSIBLE that you may end up performing a sexual act with them?

Of course the answer to that is NO, because it is NOT PROBABLE that you would do that !

You would only have to re-think the situation, if or when something sexual between you ever did happen. Unless and until that time comes around, I see nothing wrong with sleeping with a friend in the same bed, even if it’s a girl.

Following the logic of all the replies here, you should not even be allowed to sleep in the same bed with another male friend, because it is POSSIBLE that either one of you could end up performing a sexual act on each other.

But nobody here would say that sleeping with another male friend is wrong, because it would be assumed that a sexual act between you is NOT PROBABLE, ( although it would still be POSSIBLE ).

As for the Scandal issue, I’m sure nobody else in the dorm cares one way or the other about what you and your female friend do in her dorm room.

So go ahead, and as long as she is comfortable with the situation, and you truly have no intentions of any sexual activity with her, than sleeping with her in her bed is not sinful.

From JAW642 on 05/03/2010

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