D
dconklin
Guest
How old is the OP and GF? I hope this he is not seeking ammo to persuade his parents.
- Status
P
promethius
Guest
Irrelevant.
“Oh my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all of my sins because of Thy just punishment, but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin.”
If we’re putting ourselves in places where we’re overly tempted to sin, our level of self control does not matter, we are still placing ourselves into the near occasion of sin (which we promise not to do in our act of contrition). And even then, what level of control makes one have no consupience towards sin? Would you let your husband/wife sleep over at the house of a single attractive friend of the opposite gender, since your spouse has “excellent self control” even if they are tempted to cheat?
T
twoangels
Guest
I thought I’d also add that prior to being marriage, sex is forbidden. Mentally resisting what is forbidden makes it more alluring. The actual resisting of desires through surpression can actually be a part of its own game of foreplay. The effects of this mental resisting after you’re married once sex is no longer forbidden is completely different and this is where sexual difficulties can come in.
I would urge you however not to think that just going along with an urge without resisting will save you from sexual sin. Regardless, you will eventually have to refuse. Chastity is not about just saving intercourse for marriage. Sex is not just intercourse and we want to save the sexual acts for marriage. The issue is that the line between appropriate affection and behavior that is reserved for married couples is not clear because foreplay for a married couple begins before erotic behavior. There is an overlapping. Innocent actions that are not immoral have a tendency to lead to sexual behavior. As such, its important to avoid giving yourself the opportunities to engage in sexual behavior.
Anyone who says that its as simple as a certain type of kissing being ok but kissing over a certain amount of minutes is not has I’m sorry but a view that sexual behavior is just this distinctly seperate thing with a clear starting point. I can tell you, a few weeks before my wedding, my husband was simply sitting on the couch with me telling me how beautiful he thought I was, how much I inspired him, how great a person he thought I was…and it was too much for me. It was really confusing for me that I went from that to not being able to consumate my marriage once I got married, but like I said it works differently.
So be aware that chastity is not easy, rely on prayer and rely on avoiding near occassions of sin. If you fall, go to confession.
I would urge you however not to think that just going along with an urge without resisting will save you from sexual sin. Regardless, you will eventually have to refuse. Chastity is not about just saving intercourse for marriage. Sex is not just intercourse and we want to save the sexual acts for marriage. The issue is that the line between appropriate affection and behavior that is reserved for married couples is not clear because foreplay for a married couple begins before erotic behavior. There is an overlapping. Innocent actions that are not immoral have a tendency to lead to sexual behavior. As such, its important to avoid giving yourself the opportunities to engage in sexual behavior.
Anyone who says that its as simple as a certain type of kissing being ok but kissing over a certain amount of minutes is not has I’m sorry but a view that sexual behavior is just this distinctly seperate thing with a clear starting point. I can tell you, a few weeks before my wedding, my husband was simply sitting on the couch with me telling me how beautiful he thought I was, how much I inspired him, how great a person he thought I was…and it was too much for me. It was really confusing for me that I went from that to not being able to consumate my marriage once I got married, but like I said it works differently.
So be aware that chastity is not easy, rely on prayer and rely on avoiding near occassions of sin. If you fall, go to confession.
K
kancharles
Guest
Thank you for you (name removed by moderator)ut. I understand what you are saying. I know we should avoid the near occasion of sin. But if the boy and his girlfriend have absolutely no intentions of being sexual as they are religious and want to save it until marriage. There could be occasions where they spend the night talking to each other and fall asleep in the same bed. I am not saying that they should make this a regular habit,but if it happens once in a while; not harm, no foul. Right?
O
Old_Medic
Guest
Many a baby has been conceived during what started out as “just cuddling in each others arms”.
You asked this same question in the “Ask an Apologist” section. It seems that you were not happy with the response you received there.
It is a VERY BAD Idea, and any parent that allowed this is crazy. And if the people involved are no longer living at home, then they are placing themselves into an occasion of sin. I can tell you, as a healthy male, if I had done that as a teen, or a young adult, my mind would NOT have been on cuddling, but on how I could work her clothing off.
And I was a rather religious young man, who attended daily Mass for 5 years while on active duty with the US Army, serving Mass Monday through Friday. There is no way I could have slept in the same bed with a girl, without at least THINKING about having sex with her.
The person asking this is either very unrealistic, or is heading for trouble.
I can guarantee you that neither of my daughters would have been allowed to do this, and neither of them did this as young adults. They were taught, from the earliest age, what boys are after and how boys will lie, cheat and do almost anything to get into their pants. The hormones in boys are VERY strong, and unfortunately, a lot of boys do not as good at “self-control” as girls are…
You asked this same question in the “Ask an Apologist” section. It seems that you were not happy with the response you received there.
It is a VERY BAD Idea, and any parent that allowed this is crazy. And if the people involved are no longer living at home, then they are placing themselves into an occasion of sin. I can tell you, as a healthy male, if I had done that as a teen, or a young adult, my mind would NOT have been on cuddling, but on how I could work her clothing off.
And I was a rather religious young man, who attended daily Mass for 5 years while on active duty with the US Army, serving Mass Monday through Friday. There is no way I could have slept in the same bed with a girl, without at least THINKING about having sex with her.
The person asking this is either very unrealistic, or is heading for trouble.
I can guarantee you that neither of my daughters would have been allowed to do this, and neither of them did this as young adults. They were taught, from the earliest age, what boys are after and how boys will lie, cheat and do almost anything to get into their pants. The hormones in boys are VERY strong, and unfortunately, a lot of boys do not as good at “self-control” as girls are…
N
NewsTheMan
Guest
The harm is that they know it’s wrong and they let it happen. I’m not sure you understand what a near occasion of sin is. The harm is that they are unmarried and shouldn’t be sharing a bed together whether they have sex or not (deluding themselves that just because they’re not having sex they are exercising angelic virtue). Harm, thus foul. It doesn’t matter if it happens once in a while or once a day. They shouldn’t do it. They shouldn’t be in a position to do it. How would that work anyway? How would a courting couple get into a situation where they are on the same bed and then talking all night to the point of passing out into falling asleep. If they were taking their chastity and courtship seriously they wouldn’t do it.
Think of it like this. Think of yourself as a parent with a daughter or son who is 17, 18, 19, whatever. Either way, you wake up one morning, open their door and find their boyfriend/girlfriend lying in the bed. They are both fully clothed and your son/daughter insists they “did nothing”. Your response? You’d still be angry. Why? Because they didn’t “do nothing”. They slept together even if they didn’t have sex. They did something that only married people should do. They put themselves in the occasion where it happened. It’s not like one minute they were having coffee in the kitchen then boom they were suddenly asleep together in the bed.
L
lo_amo87
Guest
You shouldn’t be anywhere near a bed together. If you want to have a friendly conversation, ie, a date, go to a park, go out to dinner, don’t let yourself be in a place where you “might accidentally fall asleep in each other’s arms.” If you plan on marrying this girl, you will have, hopefully, decades of nights where you can fall asleep in each other arms—completely guilt and worry-free.
Your virginity is so precious and special and IMPORTANT that you shouldn’t mess with it at all by letting yourselves hang out in a bedroom together. Dating is not the time for cuddling and touching. It’s getting to know this person who you are already very attracted to. Your attraction to that person’s soul is what’s most important. The physical part is the icing on the cake—when you get married!!!
The best thing to do right now, is just enjoy this girl’s company and conversation and leave any situation where you might be tempted out of the picture. You may have good intentions, but most people do. Most people don’t intend for sexual situations to happen. But I’ve got news for you—they happen. Usually in bedrooms. And what I keep thinking is, why TORTURE yourself with cuddles just to able to touch her???
K
kancharles
Guest
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I did ask this question in the Apologist section couple days ago but I never got a reply so I started a thread here last night. Apparently I did get the reply today.
Not all boys/men want to have sex every time they have a girl in the bed with them. Just because one is a healthy male it doesn’t mean that he cannot respect a woman. This is just my personal opinion.
N
NewsTheMan
Guest
Chastity is more than just “I don’t want to have sex with you 24/7”. It’s not a negative duty virtue (none of them are!). It is far more than that. It’s saying, “I want to protect your chastity. I want you to be pure.”
Part of this is to say, “I will not spend the night in bed with you because this is an offense against your purity and chastity. At the very least, it will scandalize others and I value your reputation too much to make others gossip.”
A
aloe
Guest
Why tempt yourself and another just because you want to feel good cuddling? Two people dating and actively seeking primarily pleasure and good feelings from all night sleep cuddling is a road that can led somewhere pretty predictable for most people. One thing easily leads to another.
Similar to why it is important if someone struggles with drinking they avoid going to the bar and just sitting around in that environment where their good feelings happen. Sure, they can not drink a single drop and sit around watching everyone else drink and feeling those old familiar feelings, why subject themselves to that? Makes it that much easier to slip, especially over an extended time period and if they are feeling sleepy and no one else is around to help keep them accountable.
If I am struggling with weight loss it isn’t prudent to stock my house with bad foods. Sure, I can tell myself I won’t eat them because I have loads of self control, but why tempt myself having them 100% available to me at all hours of the day? That just seems cruel, self control or not.
Similar to why it is important if someone struggles with drinking they avoid going to the bar and just sitting around in that environment where their good feelings happen. Sure, they can not drink a single drop and sit around watching everyone else drink and feeling those old familiar feelings, why subject themselves to that? Makes it that much easier to slip, especially over an extended time period and if they are feeling sleepy and no one else is around to help keep them accountable.
If I am struggling with weight loss it isn’t prudent to stock my house with bad foods. Sure, I can tell myself I won’t eat them because I have loads of self control, but why tempt myself having them 100% available to me at all hours of the day? That just seems cruel, self control or not.
L
lo_amo87
Guest
K
kancharles
Guest
Thank you for the replies. I guess the moral of the story is not to engage in activities that put strain on self-control. This is as explained by the Apologist.
Please forgive me if I looks like I am arguing too much, but is it a sin to engage in activities that put stain on self-control?
Thanks!
Please forgive me if I looks like I am arguing too much, but is it a sin to engage in activities that put stain on self-control?
Thanks!
P
promethius
Guest
That is correct. We avoid near occasions of sin because they put a strain on our self control.
Potentially. If I know I have consupience in a specific area and I put myself in situations where I know I can’t control myself, this might be a sinful act in and of itself (in that it is willful participation in near-sin as an excuse to do further sin).
Furthermore, I think you’re thinking of ACTS of lust… but just entertaining thoughts about violating chastity is both sinful and abusive towards your girlfriend. Why would you want to put yourself in situations where you would dwell on the lust and therefore NEED the will power to beat it (while incurring some sin in the process anyway)? Why not just stick to public places and practices appropriate to chastity?
K
kancharles
Guest
I feel these examples are very extreme. I agree that the scenarios you have mentioned are possible but it is not the case every time. I guess nobody is able to relate. Sometimes its just spending time. No temptation, nothing. I am not saying that the boy should fight temptation as much as he can. I am saying that there are scenarios where there is no need to fight it as there is no temptation since there is no intent to commit sinful acts.
B
Bezant
Guest
I think it’s okay, but I don’t think you can seriously remove the temptation to take cuddling further.
A
aloe
Guest
When you call someone a boyfriend or girlfriend that usually means you are interested in that person beyond the level of a normal friendship, on a different level. Keeping that in mind the fact that the person is a girlfriend, that title alone signifies more than just a boring time spending time with someone who is strictly and only seen as a friend. How often do adults go around cuddling and laying in a bed for hours at night with other adults as a way to just spend some time?
This isn’t just spending normal time together like with any other person in life, especially when the two people are girlfriend and boyfriend and are actively engaged in hours of alone close body contact cuddling.
D
domandcarols
Guest
Sadly, this has been my experience. :’)
B
BookWulf
Guest
You’ve received some pretty good advice on here. I would like to add that what you are talking about also puts a tremendous burden on the girlfriend. Some times women don’t like to admit that they struggle with sexual temptation (I suppose there are some who truly don’t), but many of us do. Sure, she may resist the immediate temptation of sex while falling asleep in a boy’s arms, but this may kindle in her desires and thoughts that surface later. I know when I was younger (alright, fine, even now), I could not possibly fall asleep in a guy’s arms and think, “Eeeee! How wonderful that we’re just cuddling!” I would have been like, “Yes! Alright, hormones, do your thing - time to have some fun!”
If a boy truly cares about his girlfriend, he would go to great lengths to not tempt her and to not risk ruining their relationship.
If a boy truly cares about his girlfriend, he would go to great lengths to not tempt her and to not risk ruining their relationship.
D
domandcarols
Guest
I know where you’re coming from, man. I think you should be allowed time together but generally supervised, as in, you’re in the living room on the couch cuddling and her dads sitting in his chair in the corner.
Why does it have to be spending the night? You can spend quality time together during the day. I would say you earn the privilege of spending the night with her when you marry her.Personally, with my girlfriend, even if there was no temptation to fight I would feel like I’m betraying her dad who trusts me. I would never put myself in a situation where it’s up to me to control myself or give into temptation. She’s worth being guarded (for lack of a better word) until we’re married, regardless if there’s temptation or not. I don’t know if that makes sense, it makes sense in my head and I’m just talking about my life personally.
God bless you and good luck!
K
kancharles
Guest
I feel like everything goes as long it is not a moral sin. Pre-marital sex and teasing each other sexually are all moral sins. But spending the night with the girlfriend on her bed, when one goes to visit her as she lives in the different part of the country - not a sin. (fingers crossed)
- Status