Slight aversion to Men's Groups at Church

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the Diocese of St. Augustine seems to have a good Men’s Conference too.
 
phil19034 said:
Here are a few off the top of my head besides porn addiction.

Masturbation
Wandering eyes (subconsciously or consciously) staring at a woman’s cleavage or behind
Fantasizing about sexual encounters from years or decades ago
The willingness to die to protect your wife/family
What it truly means for a man to be the head of the household

etc.
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Gotcha. When you said subjects that might be viewed as sexists, I though you meant something other than topics that might be awkward or embarrassing to talk about in front of a woman; like something women would be offended at the men holding a particular position on.
 
AveOTheotokos said:
like something women would be offended at the men holding a particular position on.
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Women often (not always) take issue with discussions regarding
– What it truly means for a man to be the head of the household
– custodian of eyes issues.
 
How to remain charitable with wife and daughters when they get into a “moody” cycle.
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This too… this can also be a delicate discussion.
 
phil19034 said:
The willingness to die to protect your wife/family
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As the line goes, “Dying is easy. Living is hard.”

I tend to be suspicious of talk of large sacrifices from people who haven’t demonstrated the ability to make small ones.
 
phil19034 said:
Women often (not always) take issue with discussions regarding

– What it truly means for a man to be the head of the household

– custodian of eyes issues.
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I can definitely see how some positions could be offensive, though I have never encountered any resistance in regards to these subjects.
phil19034 said:
This too… this can also be a delicate discussion.
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Again, I see how some men may have issues with this because of their upbringing or the influences in their lives, but this is not something I struggle with.

I guess ultimately I find a lot of the problems men struggle with and discuss to be hard for me to personally relate too. It seems that many of the issues that warrant a separate men’s only group are issues that I don’t share or don’t experience from the same perspective.

Again, I don’t think there is anything wrong with men’s groups, and I highly recommend them to others and implement gender specific small groups in our youth group for certain discussions. I just have not personally found them to be attractive or of much benefit.
 
I think your falling right in line with having the nature of a man. If the “men’s group” is not a meeting to discuss going to war or the nuances of governing ones people and establishing laws for instance then it would not be unnatural as a man to feel uncomfortable. The natural state of men are as heads of households, defenders of the family, leaders of his people, strong pillars of the community all of which dictate a projection of strength (masculinity) and a defense against the analysis of ones own weaknesses as a man solely in the presence of other men, as AveOTheotokos’s mentioned, “ritual chest thumping.” To have solely men in a catharses setting of analyzing ones own faults effeminizes this natural state of masculinity. Ironically to include women in this setting may temper these natural masculine states allowing for the men to be able to have a more open discussion about themselves by giving them an effeminate “out”. Instead of admitting weakness to other males it becomes a showing of strength in the presence of other unthreatening females by the admitting and thus domination of his own sins and weaknesses. Where other males may see weakness the females see strength and thus impress their reaction upon the other males of the group in essence tempering the aggressive masculine expectations of the males in the group. Of course this is just a generalized rule of thumb of the masculine and feminine dynamics within a group setting, there will always be exceptions dependent upon the dominating masculine or feminine tendencies within a particular person and there will always be the chance of the one person sabotaging any positive or constructive catharsis. Group interaction is amazingly subliminally complex.
 
setarcos said:
I think your falling right in line with having the nature of a man … Group interaction is amazingly subliminally complex.
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Your post makes a great deal of sense to me, and explains why I see more benefit and progress in discussions with women or mixed women and men than with a group of only men.
 
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I am in a pretty good men’s group. No manly rituals or stereotypical behavior. We start and end with prayer and the singing of a hymn. Can you believe that? When we are not talking about the Bible, faith, or Church teachings, we talk about families, jobs, and news, usually in some way related to our faith.

Our group could be described as Men’s Group Lite, which is to say that, although we know our stuff and live our faith, our group dynamics are somewhat reserved. We never tell embarrassing personal secrets. We don’t inquire about or follow up on each other’s spiritual progress. We don’t directly challenge each other to be more holy or more pious. There is another men’s group in town where they do that.
 
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Hello, Jamal,

I’m 60 years old and all my life my best friends have been girls/ladies. I don’t care for men much at all, so you’re not alone. There will be those who thrive within a men’s prayer or study group. I am not one of them. Back when my wife and I attended church together (I now like the Mass, she no longer goes anywhere) I much preferred chatting with her and her friends. Men have their place. But it’s not with me. lol
-CW
 
I agree with this post

I will admit, when the discussion is more spiritual in nature or more generic, I often open up better in mixed company as I don’t want men to think of me as less masculine.

However, if the discussions are about porn, masturbation, lust, etc; I do better with men only as I don’t want the women to think less of me.

I also don’t like to often admit in front of women all the things that I do that ticks my wife off. One or two things, fine. But when discussing all my faults as a husband, those conversations are typically better with just men for me.

So it honestly depends on the topics discussed.
 
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I’m rather averse to them because I don’t get to join, and most of what the women’s groups do is not really my cuppa. (I have had this issue with women’s groups in every arena my whole life, not just church.)

Also I’m a bit annoyed that our very nice local retreat center has about 25 men-only events and about 5 that are either co-ed or women only.
The co-ed groups are okay.
 
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If it’s a group where they all sit around and talk about sex drive or head of household issues, I’m fine with staying out, but if it’s some service project similar to K of C or Kiwanis, seems like it could be a mixed group.

It can also be a little difficult to tell what focus a group is going to have. I would be just as uncomfortable in a women’s group where people carped about their husbands or talked about menopause as I would be in a men’s group where they talked about wandering eyes and sex stuff. I don’t want to talk about that stuff with anybody but my husband and a few BFFs.
 
I also grew up without a father figure, and spent most of my life feeling uncomfortable, or even “confused”, in the company of men - particularly the more “masculine” types, rather than the arty or serious ones which are closer to my nature. With hindsight, I wish that I’d taken the opportunities for “men only” company which were available.

By coincidence, our parish this year offered a “Men’s” Lenten study group for the first time, and I’ve joined up. It’s had a good attendance and I’m glad to have joined.
 
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I don’t think it’s abnormal or anything. I don’t mind hanging out with women unless it’s a catholic women’s group (where our gender is the ‘qualifying criteria’ to join). I can’t fit in with these groups because they tend to be really flowery in nature and they would stick to emotional topics while I would like a more rational/apologetic-esque approach to the faith. They also talk a lot about motherhood and I’m noooot ready for that anytime soon.

But I don’t mind hanging out with women in general when I form natural friendships with them. If you can spend time with men normally, then I would say you’re set. I think it’s good to have at least one or two guy friends that you can spend time with.
 
When I was in high school, I opted out of shop and chose home economics instead. I sewed myself a backpack.

I don’t like hanging out with guys for some reason. Most of my good friends have been women.

My parish doesn’t have any men’s groups. We did have a men’s rosary early Monday mornings last Advent. I did go to that once.
 
The only men’s grou at our parish is KofC. They do wonderful work, but I really don’t feel called to it.
 
Many of us like to pray individually, quietly. Seeking God, and finding deeper prayer meaning sometimes occurs when we are alone. For example, in Eucharistic adoration. Or when making a visit to the Blessed Sacrament. However, that is not to say group prayer and interaction are ‘suspect’ in any way. I think extroverted people may be more comfortable praying in a group setting. Maybe doing both will provide a nice balance.
 
I have not actually been to one, so it’s a bit like not trying a little bit of some scary looking vegetable on your plate before leaving the dinner table. 🙂 It might not be so bad, but obviously it depends on a number of things.

Some men just have more testosterone than others…or something…all men are different, and I can see how too much macho, I’m a man sort of thing, would be rather abrasive to some men who are just not like that.

I’m a big introvert and very rarely do group things, but lent is a good time to break out of one’s comfort zone a little bit. I actually do fairly well in a group but I can only have so much of it, then I am done. 🙂
 
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