Small changes to novus ordo

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I’m not in favor of tinkering with the Mass… at all.

Most of the changes mentioned are not small changes… things like changing languages, adding in rails or ad oriens for parts of the mass, adding new tabernacle hardware are all big changes (and are superficial in nature).

I suggest keeping the Mass as is and putting the emphasis and focus on living Jesus’ teachings, not making constant refinements to the mass.
 
This same argument that “women served Jesus too!” can be used to argue for female priests as well–and is.
 
prayerrider said:
This same argument that “women served Jesus too!” can be used to argue for female priests as well–and is.
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No, I wouldn’t go that far. The Priest serves in persona christi and all of the apostles he sent forth were men. However, an altar server is doing just that, serving.
 
Well, I didn’t figure anyone here was agitating for female priests.

I’m sure there are those who will continue to argue for ordaining women, however, in the greater community, using arguments grounded in feminism and egalitarianism. Sometimes they are the same folks who want to see same sex “marriage” sacramentalized in the Church.
 
Sometimes, I wonder why they are still attending a Catholic Church because they seem to disagree on every single point. Like every … single … one.
 
Nearly every Protestant denomination that has adopted female “clergy” has also eventually adopted same sex “marriages” in their churches. All of them have seen precipitous declines in attendance.

Accommodating and incorporating secularism and it’s false doctrines is not going to grow the Catholic Church. It will lead to major schism, however. Just ask the Episcopalians.
 
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Have you seen the latest from the Church of England, their new ‘baptism’ for people who have decided that they are not the sex they were born?

It reminds me of that old story ‘the emperor’s new clothes.’ It’s just so ridiculous, and they keep going on with it, except no one is standing up and laughing at the absurdity of it.
 
prayerrider said:
Nearly every Protestant denomination that has adopted female “clergy” has also eventually adopted same sex “marriages” in their churches. All of them have seen precipitous declines in attendance.

Accommodating and incorporating secularism and it’s false doctrines is not going to grow the Catholic Church. It will lead to major schism, however. Just ask the Episcopalians.
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What a doctrine does to attendance is totally besides the point. It is essentially irrelevant.
If the truth drives some people away, that is not out of keeping with the predictions in the plain meaning of the Gospels. Gross attendance figures say nothing about whether a doctrine or a practice helps or hinders in the development of sanctity. Sometimes, a great saint is very attractive and draws people in. Sometimes, the same great saint would drive the people of another age or another place away, even with the same manner and the same truth.
Instead, it ought to be this:
Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love.
And do not accept anything as love which lacks truth!
One without the other becomes a destructive lie.
–Pope St. John Paul II, homily for the canonization of St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross

I’m not saying that public perception means nothing. Of course it matters. It only matters, however, if the goal is that the public perception more closely matches the actual demands of truth and love. Making certain that people are getting the right idea and are not impeded by anything inconsequential is very important. That in no way excuses obscuring the truth because of the fear it won’t be popular.
 
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Personally, I’d be fine with a much smaller Church. One without public scandal, one with a clergy and people 100% united in opposition to secular wickedness.
 
It is predicted that the Episcopal Church and the Church of England will effectively cease to exist within the next several decades.
 
prayerrider said:
Personally, I’d be fine with a much smaller Church. One without public scandal, one with a clergy and people 100% united in opposition to secular wickedness.
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Yes, let’s keep all those sinners out of the church.

I get what you’re saying, but it doesn’t seem too realistic to me.
 
There is a huge difference between “sinners,” i.e. all of us, versus those who refuse to accept Church teachings on morality and sin, dissent against such teachings and in some cases, openly agitate for the Church to change these teachings to align with secular values.
 
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Not in our diocese! Girls don’t seem to be scaring our boys away!

The altar boys in the EF Mass serve an entirely different purpose than the altar servers in the OF Mass. I’ve seen elderly people serve at the altar in the OF Mass, but not in the EF Mass–maybe I haven’t been to enough EF Masses to see older folks up there.

It doesn’t seem that the sex of the altar server would matter in the OF Mass.
 
babochka said:
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prayerrider:
Personally, I’d be fine with a much smaller Church. One without public scandal, one with a clergy and people 100% united in opposition to secular wickedness.
Click to expand...
Yes, let’s keep all those sinners out of the church.

I get what you’re saying, but it doesn’t seem too realistic to me.
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This is what Pope Benedict said would be our future, a much smaller Church.
 
So, I think I understand you to say that in the OF Mass you have a lot of altar boys because the girls are not scaring the boys away. Maybe, hopefully, you don’t have too many altar girls then, which I would say is great. Keep encouraging the boys, we need priests. A lot of times it depends on the priest in the parish to encourage young men to serve.
Peeps said:
It doesn’t seem that the sex of the altar server would matter in the OF Mass.
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The sex of the server matters at both the EF and OF Mass because the altar boys are encouraged to consider the priesthood.

ericsammons.com

In Defense of Altar Boys

When the Catholic Church allowed girls to serve at the altar, it weakened a vital means of forming boys and raising up priests.
ericsammons.com ericsammons.com
 
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prayerrider said:
Personally, I’d be fine with a much smaller Church. One without public scandal, one with a clergy and people 100% united in opposition to secular wickedness.
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Good luck with that! P Benedict did not make his statement as a desire for some kind of purging of sinners from the Church. He was making more of a prediction based on current trends.
We hope for a large Church, as large as the whole of humanity. That is our hope and we should work for it.
 
MagdalenaRita said:
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babochka:
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prayerrider:
Personally, I’d be fine with a much smaller Church. One without public scandal, one with a clergy and people 100% united in opposition to secular wickedness.
Click to expand...
Yes, let’s keep all those sinners out of the church.

I get what you’re saying, but it doesn’t seem too realistic to me.
Click to expand...
This is what Pope Benedict said would be our future, a much smaller Church.
Click to expand...
prayerrider said:
Yes, I was thinking of him saying that when I wrote the post.
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Yes, I’m familiar with the quote. I was thinking about the reality of a church full of sinners 100% united in opposition to secular wickedness. Even if you have 100% agreement on doctrine, Catholics will still sin, will still fail. And that failure might sometime bring about public scandal.
 
Also just a thought. If Novus Ordo rubs you the wrong way, refer to the Latin Mass as the Vetus Ordinis(Old Order). 😉 I’m sure it will cause a riot.
 
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