Small orders building monasteries?

[rien]

I have received request from 2 small orders of nuns regarding their hopes to build monasteries. Asking for contributions.

One is from Our Lady of The Valley and the other Bendectines of mary, Queen of the Apostles. The latter is a traditional latin mass order.

My problem is why build a 10 million dollar monastery for an order with 15 or 22 nuns. Those are the numbers for these two orders. Yes, both have seen significant increases in member in the past few years. But going from 15 to 20 professed nuns in 2 or 3 years is hardly cause IMO to spend this kind of money.

Why can’t small orders which seem to be experiencing some growth purchase existing empty convents/churches? In my area almost all the convents associated with parish churches are boarded up. Some have been sold to private groups. Some sit empty.

Frankly I find this a mis-use of money. Spend the 10 million on helping the poor and evangelization is my feeling.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Then do not send in a donation.

Also those closed down boarded up building are sometimes more expensive because of the utilities costs as well as the cost to repair them and to make them livable once again.

 

[puzzleannie]

the Benedictine monastery of the Good Shepherd was built within the last 5 years in Rio Grande City, by 3 sisters, all near or over retirement age. After discernment, and with the blessing of their mother house, they gave up their paid jobs and live on donations. Our oblate retreat was there this weekend, in the new retreat center, just completed, to complement the monastery itself (last year ladies slept in the monastery, men in two guest houses, actually mobile homes that were the original monastery on the property). The construction is simple white contec block, paint and stucco, with steel roof, and looks exactly like a monastery in the desert should look. The adoration chapel was completed last summer, a labor of love by volunteers. the entire complex cost much less than the amount OP cites, and is suitable to the area. The retreat center is a much needed facility in the Valley, and should pay for itself and generate operating income within 5 years or less. Several ladies have been in residence discerning vocations. The charism of the house is evangelization and pro-life witness, and their efforts are paying off magnificently, in ways too numerous to mention.

They have a development council, and most of the cost of construction has been raised locally (in 3 of the poorest counties in the country), including donated supplies and labor. The monastery and the sisters are a blessing and their influence is felt all over the diocese.

 

[ChemicalBean]

I think you should look at what you just wrote:

Going from 15 to 20 professed nuns in 2-3 years is (I know you can’t fraction a nun…just a figure) is gaining 1.67 to 2.5 new nuns every year. In 30 years, that’s 50-75 professed nuns, not including those who will come but not stay until final profession. Even if the original 20 die off in 30 years and all their vocations immediately stopped, that’s still 30-65 nuns for up to another 50 years who will need a good place for work and prayer.

I also think you should look at your figures. In some areas, even a single-family home is $1M. $10M for a new monastery equipped for even 20 nuns is doing pretty well in this day. Having 20 bedrooms, bathrooms, refectory and kitchen, chapel, classroom, library, offices and workspaces, monastery grounds, guest facililties, simple furnishings…all this and more accessibly designed and up to code with eco-friendly, energy-efficient construction…on a large enough property near a community that can be adapted for the future. That could be very tough to do on $10M. But if they’re doing good work and living the gospel, then it’s worth it.

 

[Cloisters]

I have received request from 2 small orders of nuns regarding their hopes to build monasteries. Asking for contributions.

One is from Our Lady of The Valley and the other Bendectines of mary, Queen of the Apostles. The latter is a traditional latin mass order.

My problem is why build a 10 million dollar monastery for an order with 15 or 22 nuns. Those are the numbers for these two orders. Yes, both have seen significant increases in member in the past few years. But going from 15 to 20 professed nuns in 2 or 3 years is hardly cause IMO to spend this kind of money.

Why can’t small orders which seem to be experiencing some growth purchase existing empty convents/churches? In my area almost all the convents associated with parish churches are boarded up. Some have been sold to private groups. Some sit empty.

Frankly I find this a mis-use of money. Spend the 10 million on helping the poor and evangelization is my feeling.

I speak from the perspective of an aspiring foundress.

First, to address your concern for the price of a new monastery. Ten million is actually kind of cheap. There are such things as building codes, which is what you have to “lay the groundwork on” so to say, then add in what your community will be needing. The codes dictate how much square footage each person is required by law to have. Since they’re new construction, fire prevention/suppression technology is going to be required, also. The kitchen has to meet health department requirements, etc.

Recycling churches and convents can be done, but there is a lot more to it than that. Building inspections can unearth unseen problems, and if a building has sat unattended for an extended length of time, there are mold issues as well. If these older buildings are in a seismic zone, it would be better to tear them down, then build a replica with seismic add-ins.

I’ve never heard of Our Lady of the Valley, but a dear friend of mine is the chaplain for the Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles, and I support their building efforts wholeheartedly. They are in dire need of the space so they can accommodate more vocations, and once they’re declared a “public association of the faithful,” they will be permitted to make foundations in other cities.

As for our impending foundation of the Cloisterites, one of the aspirants has graciously made her home available as the “starter” convent. We will be holding down the number of foundational aspirants due to the size of the house. Once they get established, we will start plans for a larger monastery which, after the community further grows, will act as an incubator for our proposed charisms once the great motherhouse is built.

I have to admit, I was very saddened by the cynical attitude of the post. I hope I have explained things for you.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<But going from 15 to 20 professed nuns in 2 or 3 years is hardly cause IMO to spend this kind of money.>>

Would you prefer they live in tents or sleep on the ground?

What alternative do you offer them?

 

[m134e5]

I have received request from 2 small orders of nuns regarding their hopes to build monasteries. Asking for contributions.

Bendectines of mary, Queen of the Apostles. a traditional latin mass order.

I don’t know about the other one, but this one is excellent.

My problem is why build a 10 million dollar monastery for an order with 15 or 22 nuns. Those are the numbers for these two orders. Yes, both have seen significant increases in member in the past few years. But going from 15 to 20 professed nuns in 2 or 3 years is hardly cause IMO to spend this kind of money.

The world needs bold statements of faith like this. The world needs old-school monasteries, like the European monasteries in the middle-ages- to make a bold statement of the Catholic faith. We need it in America. We need it to combat secularism. The prayers of religious are very powerful- I look forward to the day that they are only 20 minutes from me.

Why can’t small orders which seem to be experiencing some growth purchase existing empty convents/churches?

The Benedictines of Mary want to build their monastery in a new place- there aren’t any convents near there- there is nothing near there. I live 20 minutes from where they are wanting to build, and I can tell you this community needs them here- it won’t help us much for them to stay where they are (at a school convent in Kansas City).

In my area almost all the convents associated with parish churches are boarded up. Some have been sold to private groups. Some sit empty.

Frankly I find this a mis-use of money. Spend the 10 million on helping the poor and evangelization is my feeling.

That is just the problem in the Church. Try telling people to sell the white house and giving the money to the poor. Try telling people to sell the Art Institute of Chicago to raise money for the poor. Try telling people to sell the mission churches in California for the poor. See how far that gets you. There is nothing wrong with having nice things. Everyone in the community will benefit from the nuns’ moving here and building a new monastery. Priests will be able to make retreats there- and probably eventually lay people. They make vestments- and may eventually make altar wine too. I can’t speak for the other order- I know nothing about it- but rest assured, we need the Benedictines right where they are planning to go.

 

[rien]

I speak from the perspective of an aspiring foundress.

First, to address your concern for the price of a new monastery. Ten million is actually kind of cheap. There are such things as building codes, which is what you have to “lay the groundwork on” so to say, then add in what your community will be needing. The codes dictate how much square footage each person is required by law to have. Since they’re new construction, fire prevention/suppression technology is going to be required, also. The kitchen has to meet health department requirements, etc.

Recycling churches and convents can be done, but there is a lot more to it than that. Building inspections can unearth unseen problems, and if a building has sat unattended for an extended length of time, there are mold issues as well. If these older buildings are in a seismic zone, it would be better to tear them down, then build a replica with seismic add-ins.

I’ve never heard of Our Lady of the Valley, but a dear friend of mine is the chaplain for the Benedictines of Mary, Queen of Apostles, and I support their building efforts wholeheartedly. They are in dire need of the space so they can accommodate more vocations, and once they’re declared a “public association of the faithful,” they will be permitted to make foundations in other cities.

As for our impending foundation of the Cloisterites, one of the aspirants has graciously made her home available as the “starter” convent. We will be holding down the number of foundational aspirants due to the size of the house. Once they get established, we will start plans for a larger monastery which, after the community further grows, will act as an incubator for our proposed charisms once the great motherhouse is built.

I have to admit, I was very saddened by the cynical attitude of the post. I hope I have explained things for you.

Blessings,
Cloisters

I apologize if my post came across as cynical. I did not mean that. Only had an honest question.

I live in an area where many Catholic churches, convents, schools and even Catholic bookstores are closing. The one anyway. Real estate prices are sky high here so allocation of resources seems an honest question.

As to Our Lady of the Valley, I will need to double check. It is in Minnesota. I may not have the name fully correct.

 

[Cloisters]

I apologize if my post came across as cynical. I did not mean that. Only had an honest question.

I live in an area where many Catholic churches, convents, schools and even Catholic bookstores are closing. The one anyway. Real estate prices are sky high here so allocation of resources seems an honest question.

As to Our Lady of the Valley, I will need to double check. It is in Minnesota. I may not have the name fully correct.

We lived in St. Joseph, MO, for 17 months about 10 years ago, and I was distressed by the number of closed convents there. The city had 5 Catholic churches, including a co-cathedral. I spoke with a realtor about the possibility of renting an old church and convent from him. I didn’t have any aspirants at the time, but he was willing to let me rent the buildings for $1,000 per month. I kept asking myself why I had gone and made the inquiry, the lack of personnel hurt so bad. This was before the internet–at least before our family had access.

Believe me, I wish I knew where these vacant churches, convents, schools, etc. were, so I can put them on the prayer list, and let other aspiring founders know about them. Your local bishop could make inquiries of the orders that are flourishing, and see if they could make a foundation.

I left an entry in a guestbook of a woman who had attended school at a metropolitan church, and her church and school were both demolished due to lack of use. I told her I wish I’d had the personnel and the money to dismantle the place and have it shipped down here. She wrote back saying she shared the wish.

In fact, most northerners who have surplus churches and convents wish they could save them somehow by shipping them south.

Where do you live? Perhaps we could put our heads together and come up with something.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[rien]

We lived in St. Joseph, MO, for 17 months about 10 years ago, and I was distressed by the number of closed convents there. The city had 5 Catholic churches, including a co-cathedral. I spoke with a realtor about the possibility of renting an old church and convent from him. I didn’t have any aspirants at the time, but he was willing to let me rent the buildings for $1,000 per month. I kept asking myself why I had gone and made the inquiry, the lack of personnel hurt so bad. This was before the internet–at least before our family had access.

Believe me, I wish I knew where these vacant churches, convents, schools, etc. were, so I can put them on the prayer list, and let other aspiring founders know about them. Your local bishop could make inquiries of the orders that are flourishing, and see if they could make a foundation.

I left an entry in a guestbook of a woman who had attended school at a metropolitan church, and her church and school were both demolished due to lack of use. I told her I wish I’d had the personnel and the money to dismantle the place and have it shipped down here. She wrote back saying she shared the wish.

In fact, most northerners who have surplus churches and convents wish they could save them somehow by shipping them south.

Where do you live? Perhaps we could put our heads together and come up with something.

Blessings,
Cloisters

I live in the bay Area. Like 4th largest metropolitan area in the nation. Fast growing still. Yet catholic churches are shutting down. its like you are agnoistic here or Mormon, fundamentalist, Muslim or Buddhist. Good luck with contacting the current bishop. or the previous who is sadly, IMO, a high vatican offcial now.

 

[Cloisters]

I live in the bay Area. Like 4th largest metropolitan area in the nation. Fast growing still. Yet catholic churches are shutting down. its like you are agnoistic here or Mormon, fundamentalist, Muslim or Buddhist. Good luck with contacting the current bishop. or the previous who is sadly, IMO, a high vatican offcial now.

Just the type of situation that needs a “shot in the arm.”

Can’t get an appt with the bishop? There are ways, just like our holy founder, St. Paul of the Cross, managed to meet the pope and get the Passionists approved (I’m a Lay Passionist). The mutual friends arranged for St. Paul to meet the pope while he was visiting a church. The rest, as they say, is history.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[NMJenny]

Some of the small orders that are undertaking new building are basically small because they have no place to put new sisters. If an order is getting 2, 3, or 4 applicants each year, but the convent is already overflowing then they have only two choices–stifle the growth that God is sending them or step out in faith to build/enlarge their present convent.

This is the “problem” that quite a few of the new orders are having–I wish all convents and monasteries had a similar problem…

 

[rien]

Some of the small orders that are undertaking new building are basically small because they have no place to put new sisters. If an order is getting 2, 3, or 4 applicants each year, but the convent is already overflowing then they have only two choices–stifle the growth that God is sending them or step out in faith to build/enlarge their present convent.

This is the “problem” that quite a few of the new orders are having–I wish all convents and monasteries had a similar problem…

Just curious. Are there any relatively large or moderate sized monasteries experiencing real growth? Or orders for that matter. The daughters of St paul wear the habit, are orthodox, have a great apostolate in the media. Yet seem to be struggling as much as the “liberal” orders.

 

[NMJenny]

Just today I got a mailing from the order Mary, the Mother of the Eucharist–they are 10 years old, started with 4 sisters and are now up to 82! Their original motherhouse was built to hold 23, so obviously they are in a terrific bind spacewise, and are planning an expansion.

One of their problems is that they are a teaching order, which means that their formation is quite lengthy, since it includes meeting the requirements for certification in addition to the normal classes that all orders run for their junior members. At the moment there are only about ten or twelve sisters who are teaching, so their income is primarily from donations until more of the sisters are qualified to teach.

But what a wonderful problem to have!! I forgot to add that they are Dominicans, totally orthodox, and wear a full habit. Their website is sistersofmary.org/index.php…