Small question...Posture at Consecration & family

[Podo2005]

Hello,

The GIRM teaches us that we are supposed to kneel at the consecration… however at one parish that I’ve attended (which is where my mother & grandparents attend) I notice that the priest has told the faithful to stand at the consecration… now I don’t believe, being a Roman Catholic, that I should stand at the consecration so I kneel…I also suspect that the reason for the standing at the consecration goes deeper & is a consequence of a deliberate dissent or rebellion against the authority of the Church ( I suspect this because this parish, particularly the pastor, seems to have a problem with the authority & magisterium of the Church…)
Well this has become a source of tension between me & those family members who attend that parish… My grandmother has told me that she was “offended” by my actions… I’ve been accused of being “pre-vatican II”,not with the times(medieval), a cause of disunity in the parish… they frequently point out this from the GIRM

“A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.”

usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml#sect2

Ive tried to explain to them why I kneel but it seems they just don’t want to hear it…

so my question is…what do you do in a situation like this? It tears me apart because its my own family who are getting themselves worked up because I kneel at mass…and this anger has persisted even outside of mass to the point that they don’t want to talk about the faith or even pray with me(some family members)…

Any thoughts, prayers would be appreciated

In Christ,
Zachary

 

[choy]

according to the GIRM

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

i just find it weird it singles out the US. what of other countries?

 

[CoffeeHound]

Is this in a Canadian or US diocese?

 

[Phemie]

It’s a Canadian diocese, since the OP is in Montreal.

OP, the US GIRM does not apply in Canada where we are still functioning under the 1975 edition.

Chow, the GIRM you quote is the US version with US adaptations. The universal GIRM only calls for kneeling at the Consecration (verified by comparing the Latin, British & French translations).

Canada hasn’t yet promulgated the new GIRM, the CCCB has said it is specific to the new Missal and it will only be promulgated when the new Missal comes online next year. It’s my understanding, from workshops done by priests in my diocese several years ago when the new translation seemed imminent, that the CCCB is also going to adopt kneeling as the posture for the entire Eucharistic Prayer. Whether they will impose it on all dioceses or leave it up to individual bishops (as it has been since 1975) remains to be seen. In our diocese the posture at the EP is pretty much left up to the pastors and in more than one parish the posture is standing throughout. Even in standing parishes though you will find kneelers like the OP. Some kneel throughout the EP while some stand up again at various other times. There is no consistency.

 

[japhy]

i just find it weird it singles out the US. what of other countries?

That’s because each country has its own adaptation of the GIRM. In the US, we have a modified GIRM which reflects our liturgical customs, such as kneeling for the entire Eucharistic Prayer. The typical GIRM (in Latin) only calls for kneeling from the epiclesis through the Consecration.

 

[japhy]

I notice that the priest has told the faithful to stand at the consecration.

Has he said why the faithful should stand? The US edition of the GIRM (you would need to consult the Canadian edition) says that the faithful “should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects.” (GIRM 43)

I also suspect that the reason for the standing at the consecration goes deeper & is a consequence of a deliberate dissent or rebellion against the authority of the Church…

That is possible, and other evidence (such as you mention) could lend credence to this possibility.

My grandmother has told me that she was “offended” by my actions… I’ve been accused of being “pre-vatican II”,not with the times(medieval), a cause of disunity in the parish…

You should ask them, politely, to leave character attacks out of the argument. If they want to quote the GIRM at you, you should quote the GIRM as I did above. The majority in that church, by not kneeling, is causing the proper posture to seem contentious.

Ive tried to explain to them why I kneel but it seems they just don’t want to hear it…

Then they’re not interested in discussing or arguing it with you, they just want you to stop what you’re doing because they don’t like it.

I would try explaining it to them, charitably, and expressing to them why you feel compelled to kneel for the Consecration.

 

[CoffeeHound]

It’s a Canadian diocese, since the OP is in Montreal.

OP, the US GIRM does not apply in Canada where we are still functioning under the 1975 edition.

I know the OP’s location is listed as Montreal and the OP even has the Canadian flag as an avatar, but he only lists “…at one parish that I’ve attended (which is where my mother & grandparents attend)…” which may or may not be at his home location (especially since he referenced the latest USCCB GIRM).

 

[centurionguard]

It’s a Canadian diocese, since the OP is in Montreal.

OP, the US GIRM does not apply in Canada where we are still functioning under the 1975 edition.

Chow, the GIRM you quote is the US version with US adaptations. The universal GIRM only calls for kneeling at the Consecration (verified by comparing the Latin, British & French translations).

Canada hasn’t yet promulgated the new GIRM, the CCCB has said it is specific to the new Missal and it will only be promulgated when the new Missal comes online next year. It’s my understanding, from workshops done by priests in my diocese several years ago when the new translation seemed imminent, that the CCCB is also going to adopt kneeling as the posture for the entire Eucharistic Prayer. Whether they will impose it on all dioceses or leave it up to individual bishops (as it has been since 1975) remains to be seen. In our diocese the posture at the EP is pretty much left up to the pastors and in more than one parish the posture is standing throughout. Even in standing parishes though you will find kneelers like the OP. Some kneel throughout the EP while some stand up again at various other times. There is no consistency.

** There is no consistency.**

Exactly. Every Diocesan Bishop and even Priests seem to adopt their own take or omission of the GIRM when it comes to Kneeling or Standing at Consecration. In the French deanery in my Archdiocese increasingly more Parishioners from different Parishes are being asked by their Priest with no explanation to stand during Consecration. In the English deanery my parish is the only English parish that kneels at Consecration. At the Cathedral where Masses are primarily said in French, everyone Stands at Consecration.

This has angered many parishioners over the years. One priest I heard say from the Ambo; You’d curtsy or bow before the Queen of England wouldn’t you?

**Under my breath I said; Yes but if you met Jesus Christ the Son of God you’d fall flat on your face like Moses before the burning bush. **

 

[choy]

It’s a Canadian diocese, since the OP is in Montreal.

OP, the US GIRM does not apply in Canada where we are still functioning under the 1975 edition.

Chow, the GIRM you quote is the US version with US adaptations. The universal GIRM only calls for kneeling at the Consecration (verified by comparing the Latin, British & French translations).

Canada hasn’t yet promulgated the new GIRM, the CCCB has said it is specific to the new Missal and it will only be promulgated when the new Missal comes online next year. It’s my understanding, from workshops done by priests in my diocese several years ago when the new translation seemed imminent, that the CCCB is also going to adopt kneeling as the posture for the entire Eucharistic Prayer. Whether they will impose it on all dioceses or leave it up to individual bishops (as it has been since 1975) remains to be seen. In our diocese the posture at the EP is pretty much left up to the pastors and in more than one parish the posture is standing throughout. Even in standing parishes though you will find kneelers like the OP. Some kneel throughout the EP while some stand up again at various other times. There is no consistency.

you are awesome Phemie, you know so much about the rules and laws for Canada

maybe thats why one time i had to pick my mom up from the airport in the morning so i didn’t go to Mass. there’s no afternoon Mass in our parish so we had to go to Mass in a neighboring parish. come consecration everyone’s standing. my knee bent like three times but i didn’t kneel. after the consecration my mom and i just looked at each other and both asked the same question why nobody kneeled (kneeling is also prescribed in the Philippines with the same exception, that if you are standing on the sides or outside the church, which is quite common as churches always are full there). i just told my mom, “when in Rome…”

 

[Phemie]

you are awesome Phemie, you know so much about the rules and laws for Canada

Well, that’s a first. Most in my parish, including my pastor/boss, consider me a major PITA because of my knowledge and insistence on following rules. I’ll admit to being anal when it comes to Liturgy. They should have known better than to send me to take courses on liturgy and then expect me to ignore what I learned.

 

[choy]

Well, that’s a first. Most in my parish, including my pastor/boss, consider me a major PITA because of my knowledge and insistence on following rules. I’ll admit to being anal when it comes to Liturgy. They should have known better than to send me to take courses on liturgy and then expect me to ignore what I learned.

don’t discount that there are those who would appreciate what you do. as much as we hate people who act like liturgical police, there’s a huge difference between those who think they know everything, and people like you who actually know a lot. keep up the good work