Small signs

[M31]

If God is not going to show proof that he exists with big signs, why not small signs?

For example, what if I were to try to pray ," God, if you exist, then let me find a white feather next to my car on the ground or in front of the front door" then if I find a white feather in those locations, then I might know he exists.

Can’t he do something like that?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If God is not going to show proof that he exists with big signs, why not small signs?

For example, what if I were to try to pray ," God, if you exist, then let me find a white feather next to my car on the ground or in front of the front door" then if I find a white feather in those locations, then I might know he exists.

Can’t he do something like that?

Wisdom 1:

Love justice, you that are the judges of the earth. Think of the Lord in goodness, and seek him in simplicity of heart. [2] For he is found by them that tempt him not: and he sheweth himself to them that have faith in him.

Are you seeking in simplicity of heart, longing as Moses did to ‘see His face’. . . or are you trying to ‘tempt’ Him by a variation of Satan’s temptation of Jesus in the desert?

“If you are the Son of God” said the devil, “turn these stones into bread.” Hey, it’s no BIG miracle, right? It’s just a small thing. Then you’ll KNOW, right? You won’t have to be like the rest of those, “Blessed are they who do NOT see me, Thomas, and yet believe. . .”

 

[Blacksword]

I would go so far as to be willing to say that if you truly seek to know God, and ask him in prayer to reveal himself to you in some way, through some sign, He will. I do NOT think that you can demand/request performance of sign x or y as some specific test of His reality though. But if your heart is open, I think with seeking His face, He will reveal himself in some fashion to you. God Bless.

 

[RosaryFan]

If God is not going to show proof that he exists with big signs, why not small signs?

For example, what if I were to try to pray ," God, if you exist, then let me find a white feather next to my car on the ground or in front of the front door" then if I find a white feather in those locations, then I might know he exists.

Can’t he do something like that?

Because God wants us to have faith in His existence. Ask Him for faith and knowledge instead of a white feather.

Incidentally, if you go to Eucharistic Adoration, God gives you more than signs - He actually speaks to your heart! And that is so much better than a white feather next to your front door!

 

[Tomcmaj]

If God is not going to show proof that he exists with big signs

Well, all of humanity and an entire universe is HERE.

If that’s not a big sign, I dunno what is.

 

[M31]

I would go so far as to be willing to say that if you truly seek to know God, and ask him in prayer to reveal himself to you in some way, through some sign, He will. I do NOT think that you can demand/request performance of sign x or y as some specific test of His reality though. But if your heart is open, I think with seeking His face, He will reveal himself in some fashion to you. God Bless.

It’s not that I demand but all is just a simple, easy “yes” or “no”.

 

[M31]

Because God wants us to have faith in His existence. Ask Him for faith and knowledge instead of a white feather.

Incidentally, if you go to Eucharistic Adoration, God gives you more than signs - He actually speaks to your heart! And that is so much better than a white feather next to your front door!

An agnostic like me is a little too skeptical to go to Eucharistic Adoration. I’ve seen it and all I said was I can’t do that!

 

[RosaryFan]

An agnostic like me is a little too skeptical to go to Eucharistic Adoration. I’ve seen it and all I said was I can’t do that!

Oh, sorry. Didn’t realize you were agnostic. I must say, though, you don’t know what you’re missing!

Imagine for a moment if you believed there was a God, and that God has veiled Himself in the appearance of bread, and you were able to go and visit Him, in person, whenever you want. You can imagine how awesome that is!

This is why God does not give us signs. He wants us to have that total faith in Him (and I do). If He gave us signs, such as the white feather, all of that faith would be for nothing and would be lost. Personally, I prefer to have the faith. I can’t explain it, but it’s a gift and it makes me love Him that much more! I love the fact that I don’t need a sign, but I still know He’s there. Know what I mean??

 

[M31]

Well, all of humanity and an entire universe is HERE.

If that’s not a big sign, I dunno what is.

Well, I don’t know for SURE if God made the universe because I am not sure if he exists, therefore, our existence doesn’t really give me the answer.

 

[Blacksword]

An agnostic like me is a little too skeptical to go to Eucharistic Adoration. I’ve seen it and all I said was I can’t do that!

Just curious, but what did you see at an adoration that bothered you? I’m a convert, but I’ve been a couple of times for private adoration, and found it wonderfully peaceful, prayerful, and quiet. It was just me with the tabernacle, praying and listening, very positive experience.

 

[Blacksword]

It’s not that I demand but all is just a simple, easy “yes” or “no”.

I think if you seek him and ask with humble heart for a sign, a word, a message of him, he will give you one…I feel I received some signs that helped me to become Catholic. Funny thing, dangerous thing, about signs though: they can be addictive. You might get one, but then, the human heart being how it is, begin to think “well, maybe just coincidence, or I imagined it, give me another and I’ll believe”, and this becomes a never-ending pattern. It’s one of those things where you can always find a reason to doubt, and expect more.

 

[trmyjs]

Well, I don’t know for SURE if God made the universe because I am not sure if he exists, therefore, our existence doesn’t really give me the answer.

May I ask what your views are on the creation of the universe?

 

[M31]

Oh, sorry. Didn’t realize you were agnostic. I must say, though, you don’t know what you’re missing!

No problem if you didn’t know So what am I missing out on?

Imagine for a moment if you believed there was a God, and that God has veiled Himself in the appearance of bread, and you were able to go and visit Him, in person, whenever you want. You can imagine how awesome that is!

What? An all-powerful God hides in bread?? That’s impossible, no? But if that’s true, why would he want to do that? How can he be in heaven and bread at the time?

This is why God does not give us signs. He wants us to have that total faith in Him (and I do). If He gave us signs, such as the white feather, all of that faith would be for nothing and would be lost. Personally, I prefer to have the faith. I can’t explain it, but it’s a gift and it makes me love Him that much more! I love the fact that I don’t need a sign, but I still know He’s there.

Well, if it’s just a one-time proof - like the feather - you can still have faith that will last a lifetime. I mean I would NOT have faith if there was not some kind of proof first, even if it is tiny proof.

Know what I mean??

No, I don’t because I don’t believe or have faith like you

 

[pablope]

If God is not going to show proof that he exists with big signs, why not small signs?

For example, what if I were to try to pray ," God, if you exist, then let me find a white feather next to my car on the ground or in front of the front door" then if I find a white feather in those locations, then I might know he exists.

Can’t he do something like that?

God will give you the sign He determines is appropriate, not what you want it to be. There may be a sign already, you just may not have been aware or discerned it yet.

I would say, you being on this forum, talking to catholics and learning about God is a sign, don’t you think. Do you think you are making small progress towards knowing God?

In the Bible, particularly in the OT, God revealed Himself overtime, not all at once, as man grew in knowledge of Him, then He sent His son Jesus. I think the small incremental steps have started. You just need to keep going and accept it in humility, sincerity and charity.

 

[M31]

Just curious, but what did you see at an adoration that bothered you? I’m a convert, but I’ve been a couple of times for private adoration, and found it wonderfully peaceful, prayerful, and quiet. It was just me with the tabernacle, praying and listening, very positive experience.

Oh I was watching something on EWTN and I absolutely couldn’t stand watching people getting down and “worshipping”…uh, bread

I was thinking they know better

Wow, you guys MUST have a lot of faith to think he goes in bread without making it into idolatry, no offense.

 

[RosaryFan]

No problem if you didn’t know So what am I missing out on?

What? An all-powerful God hides in bread?? That’s impossible, no? But if that’s true, why would he want to do that? How can he be in heaven and bread at the time?

Well, if it’s just a one-time proof - like the feather - you can still have faith that will last a lifetime. I mean I would NOT have faith if there was not some kind of proof first, even if it is tiny proof.

No, I don’t because I don’t believe or have faith like you

Okay, then. Never mind. I was trying to explain to you how having faith negates the necessity for little feather signs and you replied in a somewhat nasty tone. Did you come here to learn something or start an argument? Probably the latter because anyone who uses a white feather sign as an example is bordering on ridicule, which you’ve affirmed by your response to my post. Pure ridicule.

Particularly, I didn’t appreciate your comment about an all-powerful God hiding in bread. The derisive way you worded it was disrespectful. Remember, YOU asked the question. We’re just trying to answer it.

I believe your question was answered many times over. So what do you want? We can’t zap faith into your brain, if that’s what you’re looking for.

Lastly, why would you think it’s impossible. If there is a God, then all things are possible with God. Right? Isn’t that logical. If he can leave a white feather outside your door, He can certainly veil Himself in the appearance of bread on an altar while never leaving heaven. God is all-powerful. He’d have to be to create an entire universe from nothing.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

No problem if you didn’t know So what am I missing out on?

What? An all-powerful God hides in bread?? That’s impossible, no? But if that’s true, why would he want to do that? How can he be in heaven and bread at the time?

Well, if it’s just a one-time proof - like the feather - you can still have faith that will last a lifetime. I mean I would NOT have faith if there was not some kind of proof first, even if it is tiny proof.

Actually, that’s the thing. Faith is the 'assurance of things HOPED for." Well, if you HOPE for something, you don’t really know for sure, do you?

If you have PROOF of something (like what you demand) you no longer have faith. . . you have sure and certain proof and knowledge.

So what you’re asking for isn’t faith. . .you’re asking for more than anybody else in the universe. You’re asking for proof positive while the rest of us ‘have to have faith’. You don’t see that this is in essence asking God to submit to YOU and ‘prove himself to YOU’? You don’t see how unreasonable it is to demand that God give you more than His Son’s death on the cross, more than His written word, more than the Church He established, more than what was given even to His apostles until AFTER He left them --you’re asking that YOU get the ‘deal’ that the apostles got, without your spending 3 years with Christ and being chosen by Him–just because you can’t have ‘faith’ without the kind of proof that when it was offered Him, St. Thomas was abashed for even asking?

No, I don’t because I don’t believe or have faith like you

You could if you tried, though. Do you think that God somehow ‘gave’ all of US the kind of proof you’re demanding for yourself? Do you think that you are not as CAPABLE as we? That would be selling yourself short. Christ came to the poor, humble, and let’s face it, not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Thank God He still does. So it isn’t lack of brains holding you back. Let go, and let God. Stop saying, “My Will be done” and start saying, "THY will be done, whether I get proof or not. . .’

Start living as though you already had faith and stop focusing on it and focus instead on doing what you know God wants you to do --yeah, all that stuff about following the commandments and loving people, even the ones who are hard to love like me! and let Him fill you with faith. . .

 

[midori]

If a person makes an honest effort to look for something, they’ll generally find what they’re looking for.

If you make an honest effort to look for God, you’ll find him. And when you find him, you’ll be able to recognize signs of his presence all around you as clearly as if he sent you postcards in the mail every week.

If someone doesn’t want to find God… not even postcards in the mail from him every week would be enough to convince them.

Your post about just getting the feather once made me think of this story about a nun with a gift for healing:

While in Japan giving a retreat, an Irish priest said to me (Sr. Briege), “Briege, it would be awful easy to believe if I could see a miracle.”

I told him, “Father, the Lord uses you every morning to perform a miracle.”

He said, “I know about the mass, but you know what I mean. If only I could see somebody healed if they were blind or had bad legs, it would be very easy to believe.”

I said, “Oh, do you think it would, Father? I’ve seen a lot of people healed, but that doesn’t make it any easier. I still have to keep praying and many times I find myself thinking, ‘Oh that person’s so sick,’ and wondering if healing is possible.”

He said to me, “Oh, I think I’d be different. I think if I could see a miracle, I would really believe.”

…three days later…]

Among the Jesuits [at the retreat] there was an elderly French priest who had a very severe gangrene in his leg. The doctor had told him he should have the leg amputated. He asked the doctor to let him make the retreat and then he would go for the amputation.

Fr. Frank asked us to gather around and pray for healing.

The next morning, we were getting ready to go to breakfast. The French priest came up to me gesticulating and making all kinds of signs to me, pointing to heaven and to his heart and just carrying on. I couldn’t speak French or Japanese; I just kept looking at him. I thought with a little inward smile, ‘This poor man’s getting a heart attack or going mad.’ So I just walked away.

I went in to breakfast and this same priest came running into the room with the legs of his trousers rolled up. He was showing everyone that his leg was perfectly healed.

Three seats down from me was my Irish friend. I looked over at him and said, “Father, there’s your miracle you were talking about the other day.”

The Irish priest looked at him, and then he looked at me, and he said, “My God, it’s awful hard to believe! Did he have gangrene at all?”

Then I said to him, “See, Father, it doesn’t make it easier to believe.”

The moral of this story, I suppose, is that people who have faith don’t need to see.

 

[M31]

RosaryFan;8201680:

Okay, then. Never mind. I was trying to explain to you how having faith negates the necessity for little feather signs and you replied in a somewhat nasty tone. Did you come here to learn something or start an argument? Probably the latter because anyone who uses a white feather sign as an example is bordering on ridicule, which you’ve affirmed by your response to my post. Pure ridicule.!

I beg your pardon but I had no bad intentions. And tell me where in my post I was having a nasty tone or trying to start an argument? I am not ridiculing anything here! Don’t get so defensive.

See? That’s the problem with typing words because you obviously can’t HEAR the tone of the person!

Particularly, I didn’t appreciate your comment about an all-powerful God hiding in bread. The derisive way you worded it was disrespectful. Remember, YOU asked the question. We’re just trying to answer it.

I have no idea why you’re biting my head off when I have no clue about your religion. Ignorant? Yes. But do I deserve to get my head bitten off by a Catholic? Uh, no! If you had NO faith, you would understand. Now if I was Catholic and said that, yes, you could bite my head off. So you really have no right to say that to me. I mean, I apologize if what I said offended you but you are going a little too far!

I believe your question was answered many times over. So what do you want? We can’t zap faith into your brain, if that’s what you’re looking for.
Lastly, why would you think it’s impossible. If there is a God, then all things are possible with God. Right? Isn’t that logical. If he can leave a white feather outside your door, He can certainly veil Himself in the appearance of bread on an altar while never leaving heaven. God is all-powerful. He’d have to be to create an entire universe from nothing.

Sure, whatever you say. If God can put a feather he can appear in bread in the Eucharistic Adoration. Yes, whatever you say. But I don’t know if he’s there or not BECAUSE I have no faith like you do. Now, you’re not going to get offended for me saying I have no faith, are you?

If you feel proud for biting my head off, I’m sorry.

 

[Ignatius]

It’s not that I demand but all is just a simple, easy “yes” or “no”.

Nearly everyone does see the evidence of the existence of God. Unfortunately there are some who cannot hear, they are deaf, some do not have a sense of smell, some who do not have the ability to see, they are blind, some are only colorblind, I think the inability to discern the existence of God is like that. Many are unable to understand Calculus, but I belief that for most, it is because they do not apply sufficient effort and diligence. As with advanced Calculus, if you diligently apply yourself to the task, it will gradually become clear. Read those, especially scientists who have, through their research, discovered the langage of God written in the Universe.