Smoking Cigarettes. A sin of gluttony?

[cargau]

I was asking because I was curious, nothing wrong with that. If you don’t like it, don’t comment.

Interesting how you probably never posted anything like this on any of the dozens of homosexuality threads started each week by people who are not homosexual.

No, I can’t say I remember anyone ever asking if homosexuality was a sin of gluttony.
Though, sodomy is clearly grave matterl, the CCC does not say that smoking is sinful of and in itself. It can fall into gluttony is done excessively, however, so can eating candy, drinking soda pop, gossiping or a host of other activities.

Look, you can post whatever you like. And, I mean you no disrespect. Your post did strike me as being a bit snobbish. If I misunderstood, I apologize.

 

[Layp3rs0n]

I strongly feel that God wants me to quit smoking but I am defintely having a difficult time. Prayers please.

 

[Debora123]

No, I can’t say I remember anyone ever asking if homosexuality was a sin of gluttony.
Though, sodomy is clearly grave matterl, the CCC does not say that smoking is sinful of and in itself. It can fall into gluttony is done excessively, however, so can eating candy, drinking soda pop, gossiping or a host of other activities.

I was talking about the principle of it.

You accused me of being prideful for posting about a sin that I don’t participate in. I said it’s interesting that you don’t say the same thing to people who post about homosexuality.

Look, you can post whatever you like. And, I mean you no disrespect. Your post did strike me as being a bit snobbish. If I misunderstood, I apologize.

It’s best not to automatically assume and then accuse someone of being snobbish just because they asked a question.

 

[doormouse73]

I was talking about the principle of it.

You accused me of being prideful for posting about a sin that I don’t participate in. I said it’s interesting that you don’t say the same thing to people who post about homosexuality.

It’s best not to automatically assume and then accuse someone of being snobbish just because they asked a question.

could i ask you the same question please what you are asking others to answer…

is Smoking Cigarettes. A sin of gluttony?

comming from a non smoker,what do you think ?

ive not had a cigarette for the turn of the year.im on E-ciggs… ive smoked for 30 plus years…evry day,day in day out… i dont think that its gluttony at all. and im not ant cigarettes either. if people want to smoke let them.but not around the young…

i find it very wierd to be asked such a question of a non smoker my self…

all the very best…

 

[cargau]

I was talking about the principle of it.

You accused me of being prideful for posting about a sin that I don’t participate in. I said it’s interesting that you don’t say the same thing to people who post about homosexuality.

First of all, no one (except you) said that smoking is a sin. The fact is, that you brought up something that the CCC does not recognize as being intrinsically sinful and asking about it when you are not one of those “smokers” . No one ever died (to the best of my knowledge) from smoking one cigarette. Suggesting that all smoking is gluttonous is a bit of a stretch. You cannot deny that there is a clear bias against smokers in society. Your post seems to reflect that bias.

I am not saying that smoking should be encouraged. But, neither should drinking too much soda pop, eating too much red meat or shopping too much. Funny, you never asked about those things…

It’s best not to automatically assume and then accuse someone of being snobbish just because they asked a question.

And, perhaps it would be useful if you could articulate why I am wrong in reaching my conclusion.

 

[Debora123]

First of all, no one (except you) said that smoking is a sin. The fact is, that you brought up something that the CCC does not recognize as being intrinsically sinful and asking about it when you are not one of those “smokers” . No one ever died (to the best of my knowledge) from smoking one cigarette. Suggesting that all smoking is gluttonous is a bit of a stretch. You cannot deny that there is a clear bias against smokers in society. Your post seems to reflect that bias.

I am not saying that smoking should be encouraged. But, neither should drinking too much soda pop, eating too much red meat or shopping too much. Funny, you never asked about those things…

And, perhaps it would be useful if you could articulate why I am wrong in reaching my conclusion.

could i ask you the same question please what you are asking others to answer…

is Smoking Cigarettes. A sin of gluttony?

comming from a non smoker,what do you think ?

ive not had a cigarette for the turn of the year.im on E-ciggs… ive smoked for 30 plus years…evry day,day in day out… i dont think that its gluttony at all. and im not ant cigarettes either. if people want to smoke let them.but not around the young…

i find it very wierd to be asked such a question of a non smoker my self…

all the very best…

Ok, thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Now can we please stick objectively only to the topic at hand and not worry about me and why I’m asking?

People ask questions all the time about whether or not things are sinful even though they have never done those things. Just look at all the homosexuality threads. So I really don’t understand why I am getting penalized for asking if smoking is a sin if I’m not a smoker.

Please, simply state your opinion on the subject matter, and don’t worry about ME.

 

[doormouse73]

Ok, thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Now can we please stick objectively only to the topic at hand and not worry about me and why I’m asking?

People ask questions all the time about whether or not things are sinful even though they have never done those things. Just look at all the homosexuality threads. So I really don’t understand why I am getting penalized for asking if smoking is a sin if I’m not a smoker.

Please, simply state your opinion on the subject matter, and don’t worry about ME.

but do you think it is gluttony?

 

[Debora123]

but do you think it is gluttony?

I’m not sure… hence this thread.

It really just depends on the correct definition of gluttony. I always understood gluttony to be an overindulgence of something.

If that’s the case, I can see how an addiction to tobacco might fall under the sin of gluttony. But there’s one member here saying that gluttony pertains only to food/drink… so I don’t know…

 

[Edmundus1581]

…
People ask questions all the time about whether or not things are sinful even though they have never done those things. Just look at all the homosexuality threads. So I really don’t understand why I am getting penalized for asking if smoking is a sin if I’m not a smoker.

Please, simply state your opinion on the subject matter, and don’t worry about ME.

Wong’s Law

Whenever you ask a question on the internet, half the responses will be about why you are asking the question.

Named after a colleague named Wong, who told it to me back 2005

 

[thistle]

I’m not sure… hence this thread.

It really just depends on the correct definition of gluttony. I always understood gluttony to be an overindulgence of something.

If that’s the case, I can see how an addiction to tobacco might fall under the sin of gluttony. But there’s one member here saying that gluttony pertains only to food/drink… so I don’t know…

How many times do I have to say it? Gluttony applies to food and drink only. I have provided you the Catholic definition of gluttony.
There is NOTHING in the CCC or Canon Law which supports your view.

Smoking is not a sin at all unless done in excess (and the Church does not even define what excess means). Smoking does NOT fall under gluttony.

 

[underacloud]

How many times do I have to say it? Gluttony applies to food and drink only. I have provided you the Catholic definition of gluttony.
There is NOTHING in the CCC or Canon Law which supports your view.

And I’ve provided a clear Catholic example of gluttony used in a different manner. Or perhaps you don’t think the writings of St John of the Cross are worthy of our consideration.

One can also point out that when people such as Aquinas and Augustine wrote about gluttony (which is where much of Church teaching on the subject comes from) Europeans had not yet encountered the pastime of inhaling tobacco smoke into one’s lungs, so we don’t know whether they would have classed it as such and spoken about it in much the same way. Interestingly, the catechism puts excess smoking in the same category as excess eating and drinking (and medicine…all things you put into your body).

Regardless, perhaps we can agree that “intemperance” is a suitable discription, and we can put asside the semantics of whether intemperance equals gluttony or not?

 

[Debora123]

And I’ve provided a clear Catholic example of gluttony used in a different manner. Or perhaps you don’t think the writings of St John of the Cross are worthy of our consideration.

One can also point out that when people such as Aquinas and Augustine wrote about gluttony (which is where much of Church teaching on the subject comes from) Europeans had not yet encountered the pastime of inhaling tobacco smoke into one’s lungs, so we don’t know whether they would have classed it as such and spoken about it in much the same way. Interestingly, the catechism puts excess smoking in the same category as excess eating and drinking (and medicine…all things you put into your body).

Regardless, perhaps we can agree that “intemperance” is a suitable discription, and we can put asside the semantics of whether intemperance equals gluttony or not?

 

[thistle]

And I’ve provided a clear Catholic example of gluttony used in a different manner. Or perhaps you don’t think the writings of St John of the Cross are worthy of our consideration.

One can also point out that when people such as Aquinas and Augustine wrote about gluttony (which is where much of Church teaching on the subject comes from) Europeans had not yet encountered the pastime of inhaling tobacco smoke into one’s lungs, so we don’t know whether they would have classed it as such and spoken about it in much the same way. Interestingly, the catechism puts excess smoking in the same category as excess eating and drinking (and medicine…all things you put into your body).

Regardless, perhaps we can agree that “intemperance” is a suitable discription, and we can put asside the semantics of whether intemperance equals gluttony or not?

It is what the Church teaches about something that counts. It does NOT teach that smoking is gluttony and I have shown you the Catholic definition of gluttony which applies ONLY to food and drink.

You have failed to show me a Church document that teaches what you claim gluttony is.

By the way Aquinas did not believe in the Immaculate Conception so does that mean the Church teaching is in error???

 

[CopticChristian]

Hello everyone! Happy Tuesday. Hope you’re all doing well and keeping up with your Lenten promises.

Here’s what’s been on my mind today:

I have noticed that while sins of lust and questions about homosexuality flood the Moral Theology section, the sin of “gluttony” is hardly ever talked about… even though it seems to be just as prevalent now a days as lust. And perhaps even more so.

Anyway, I got to wondering what y’all thought about smoking cigarettes. I don’t mean just smoking recreationally when you’re out for drinks, but actually being a smoker… smoking daily due to an addiction to cigarettes. An over consumption.

Is this a sin of gluttony? A venial sin? Mortal sin? Grave matter? Is it on par to something like porn addiction? Why is the sin of gluttony so overlooked? Let me hear your thoughts!

(Disclaimer: I am NOT a smoker and don’t smoke “recriationally” or ever.)

Deb,

The notion of 7 deadly sins emanates from Moralia et Job, by Gregory…it is available online and was just recently finished…

For when pride, the queen of sins, has fully possessed a conquered heart, she surrenders it immediately to seven principal sins, as if to some of her generals, to lay it waste. And an army in truth follows these generals, because, doubtless, there spring up from them importunate hosts of sins. Which we set forth the better, if we specially bring forward in enumeration, as we are able, the leaders themselves and their army. For pride is the root of all evil, of which it is said, as Scripture bears witness; Pride is the beginning of all sin. [Ecclus. 10, 1

His discourse discusses Pride as the sin most grevious and then explains how other sins add to that downfall.

He explains why these sins are deadly as they lead to othet actions, thoughts, attitudes…

1. But these several sins have each their army against us. For from vain glory there arise disobedience, boasting, hypocrisy, contentions, obstinacies, discords, and the presumptions of novelties. From envy there spring hatred, whispering, detraction, exultation at the misfortunes of a neighbour, and affliction at his prosperity. From anger are produced strifes, swelling of mind, insults, clamour, indignation, blasphemies. From melancholy there arise malice, rancour, cowardice, despair, slothfulness in fulfilling the commands, and a wandering of the mind on unlawful objects. From avarice there spring treachery, fraud, deceit, perjury, restlessness, violence, and hardnesses of heart against compassion. From gluttony are propagated foolish mirth, scurrility, uncleanness, babbling, dulness of sense in understanding.

From lust are generated blindness of mind, inconsiderateness, inconstancy, precipitation, self-love, hatred of God, affection for this present world, but dread or despair of that which is to come.

He goes on…

It is a very blameless thing, that thou desirest some things to possess; because thou seekest not to be increased, but art afraid of being in want; and that which another retains for no good, thou thyself expendest to better purpose. Gluttony is also wont to exhort the conquered heart, as if with reason, when it says, God has created all things clean, in order to be eaten, and he who refuses to fill himself with food, what else does he do but gainsay the gift that has been granted him

.

One question I have concerning this, if Gluttony is food or drink that we need…and if Gluttony is excess of food or drink…

when considering Smoking…do we need to smoke?..while not sinful is there a point where smoking is enough and then when is it not enough…

The consquences of over eating are obesity.

The consequences of too much drink…if alcohol…being drunk.

If you negate the notion of addiction as this clouds the issue…

We need to eat
We need to drink something
We don’t need to smoke, and if you smoke 100 cartons is that Gluttony and what would happen if you did?

Do we need to smoke at all?
[/quote]

 

[thewanderer]

It is what the Church teaches about something that counts. It does NOT teach that smoking is gluttony and I have shown you the Catholic definition of gluttony which applies ONLY to food and drink.

You have failed to show me a Church document that teaches what you claim gluttony is.

By the way Aquinas did not believe in the Immaculate Conception so does that mean the Church teaching is in error???

lol, underacloud already dropped the term gluttony and used the term intemperate. Look, no one is saying that all smoking is sinful, what is being asked is, when smoking is sinful, what kind of sin is it. Would you agree that excessive smoking is intemperate?

 

[cargau]

How many times do I have to say it? Gluttony applies to food and drink only. I have provided you the Catholic definition of gluttony.
There is NOTHING in the CCC or Canon Law which supports your view.

Smoking is not a sin at all unless done in excess (and the Church does not even define what excess means). Smoking does NOT fall under gluttony.

Thistle gets a star. That is correct. Thankyou

 

[Debora123]

Deb,

The notion of 7 deadly sins emanates from Moralia et Job, by Gregory…it is available online and was just recently finished…

His discourse discusses Pride as the sin most grevious and then explains how other sins add to that downfall.

He explains why these sins are deadly as they lead to othet actions, thoughts, attitudes…

He goes on…

One question I have concerning this, if Gluttony is food or drink that we need…and if Gluttony is excess of food or drink…

when considering Smoking…do we need to smoke?..while not sinful is there a point where smoking is enough and then when is it not enough…

The consquences of over eating are obesity.

The consequences of too much drink…if alcohol…being drunk.

If you negate the notion of addiction as this clouds the issue…

We need to eat
We need to drink something
We don’t need to smoke, and if you smoke 100 cartons is that Gluttony and what would happen if you did?

Do we need to smoke at all?

Good information, thank you so much for posting this.

You’re right, I hadn’t thought about it in terms on needing food/drink, but not needing tobacco.

 

[Debora123]

Smoking is not a sin at all unless done in excess (and the Church does not even define what excess means).

Well, all I’ve done here from the very beginning is ask about whether it’s sinful to smoke *as an addiction. *

I already know it’s not a sin to smoke a cigarette recreationaly every once in a while. That’s not the question. The question is whether smoking SO much that you are addicted to it, is a sin.

If someone is addicted to smoking, would you consider it an access?

 

[underacloud]

It is what the Church teaches about something that counts. It does NOT teach that smoking is gluttony and I have shown you the Catholic definition of gluttony which applies ONLY to food and drink.

You have failed to show me a Church document that teaches what you claim gluttony is.

I’m quite happy to go with the term intermperance to avoid getting bogged in semantics. The meaning is essentially the same - it is excessive use that is sinful.

By the way Aquinas did not believe in the Immaculate Conception so does that mean the Church teaching is in error???

What it shows is that theology, including moral theology, evolves over time. Or more precisely our understanding of it. And typically it is very slow.

Given that the health consequences of smoking have only really been uncovered over the past few decades, it is not surprising that the Church doesn’t have more definitive teachings in this area. I would be surprised if this does not change, in much the same way as civil authorities are recognising the health consequesnces and the need to discourage and eliminate smoking as much as possible. To give context, I’m in Australia where smoking is banned in enclosed areas (apart from private homes), and many public spaces,there are large taxes, packs carry grusome health warnings and images, and plain packaging is now being introduced (all advertising already banned years ago).

Anyway, we’ll see where this all goes. Clearly, Church teaching is currently that moderate smoking is not sinful. Each person can judge this matter for themselves.

On a personal level, if any of my children ask what a moderate, or healthy, level of smoking is, I will reply none. And what is an excesive level? Any. And if my family doctor were to advise otherwise, I would seek a new doctor.

So it really comes down to two things:

a) The Church teaches that excessive smoking is sinful.

b) I must decide for myself what excessive smoking is.

 

[thistle]

Well, all I’ve done here from the very beginning is ask about whether it’s sinful to smoke *as an addiction. *

I already know it’s not a sin to smoke a cigarette recreationaly every once in a while. That’s not the question. The question is whether smoking SO much that you are addicted to it, is a sin.

If someone is addicted to smoking, would you consider it an access?

The thread title you opened - Smoking cigarettes. A sin of Gluttony? The answer is no.

Is smoking per se a sin. The answer is no.

Is excess smoking a sin. The answer is yes but the Church does not define what constitutes an excess so how would the Church or anyone tell if a smoker was sinning or not?

Is addiction to smoking an excess? Not necessarily. For example, you could be addicted to 2 cigarettes a day. Would you call that an excess?