Smoking Cigarettes. A sin of gluttony?

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Debora123 said:
I personally would, yes. How about you?
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No, I would not consider 2 cigarettes a day as an excess.

I stopped smoking more than 30 years ago. In those days I smoked up to 2 packs per day. 2 packs per day is an excess but not 2 sticks.
 
thistle said:
No, I would not consider 2 cigarettes a day as an excess.

I stopped smoking more than 30 years ago. In those days I smoked up to 2 packs per day. 2 packs per day is an excess but not 2 sticks.
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Also, just to add to this, at least as I understand it, if one is only smaoking 2 sticks a day it is unlikely that they are actually addicted.

Debora, I didn’t realize this until my fiance started smoking, but most people who smoke regularly are smoking at least a pack a day, and apparantly the studies that show health risks show them for people who smoke that much. (Although, I could be mistaken about that, as I never double-checked it.)

Either way, I think that once addiction comes into the picture it makes the morality of the action much more cloudy as addiction can be a mtigating factor which lessens the sinfulness of an action (perhaps if it was only a venial sin to begin with it would remove it? I don’t know about that, but I wonder…)

I think it might be easier and less contentious to talk about this in terms of smoking in excess because that is actually the language the CCC uses to describe when smoking is sinful. I think that everyone would agree that smoking excessively is intemperate (or at least I hope they would as that is pretty much the definition of the word ‘intemperate’) as well as possibly being a sin against the 5th commandment because it damages ones own health, beyond that it gets into the territory of each individual bringing their own understanding of ‘excessive’ to the table. Its kind of like the idea of ‘serious reasons’ to avoid pregnancy. It is not something explicitly defined by the Church and so is left up to the judgement of each individual. It also gets really personal really quickly because its really easy for people to feel judged if others have a stricter view on it than they do. Its not like this topic can’t be discussed, but if you want to get into the territory of defining what is ‘excessive’ then you need to be** extremely **careful in the way you handle it because it is so personal.
 
CopticChristian said:
We need to eat
We need to drink something
We don’t need to smoke, and if you smoke 100 cartons is that Gluttony and what would happen if you did?

Do we need to smoke at all?
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Just a thought to add to this. Yes we do need to drink, but do we need to drink alcohol? No, alcohol is not at all a necessity. Nor, as it turns out, is junk food. Junk food, alcohol, and cigarettes, none of them are necessary, but all of them are enjoyable and can be relaxing.

I think it is a little misleading to imply that since we need to drink something but never need to smoke alcohol is more acceptable than cigarrets, as alcohol is just as necessary to our lives as cigarettes are, that is, not at all.
 
My step dad died of lung cancer while my mom kept on smoking in his presence. My mom died later of emphasema/copd.

I got asthma from my parents chain smoking, and now have copd myself. Naturally I’m not a cigarette lover.

OTOH the anti smoking fervor of many really bothers me. I see it as prohibition round two, with smokers made persons of shame.

I just don’t agree with the zero tolerance in so many today. And when you think about it was not the health reasons that got many people to give up smoking, it was the social pressure.
 
thewanderer said:
Just a thought to add to this. Yes we do need to drink, but do we need to drink alcohol? No, alcohol is not at all a necessity. Nor, as it turns out, is junk food. Junk food, alcohol, and cigarettes, none of them are necessary, but all of them are enjoyable and can be relaxing.

I think it is a little misleading to imply that since we need to drink something but never need to smoke alcohol is more acceptable than cigarrets, as alcohol is just as necessary to our lives as cigarettes are, that is, not at all.
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Wanderer,

Moralia et job lists Gluttony as food…the Church enlarged that to include Food/drink…

You may want to consider that beer and alcoholic beverages are safer to drink than water and in the middle ages beer was a staple since water was not safe to drink…and today

torontosun.com/life/healthandfitness/2010/10/07/15614431.html
Beer still safer than water
Cholesterol drugs and antidepressants found in drinking water
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For centuries it was always safer to drink beer than water. Contaminated water killed millions. It’s still a major threat as every year in the U.S., 20 million people suffer from water-borne illnesses. One reason is that 45 million people drink water from domestic wells.
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Here I used widipedia because it compliments what is known already…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_England
Beer was one of the most common drinks during the Middle Ages. It was consumed daily by all social classes in the northern and eastern parts of Europe where grape cultivation was difficult or impossible[citation needed]. Since the purity of water could seldom be guaranteed, alcoholic drinks were a popular choice, having been boiled as part of the brewing process. Beer also provided a considerable amount of the daily calories in the northern regions. In England, the per capita consumption was 275-300 liters (60-66 gallons) a year by the Late Middle Ages, and beer was drunk with every meal
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I knew a very special and saintly priest,who was a personal friend of Teresa of Calcutta. He enjoyed smoking cigarettes. he also had the ability to touch a Host and could actually “feel” if it were consecrated or not. He lived to be in his mid-eighties. There is not a doubt in my mind, nor anyone who ever knew him, that he is a Saint.
There are so many more important issues than cigarettes. I personally don’t believe that smoking CAUSES cancer. I believe that it is genetic. Working in the monument industry, I have seen too many cases where young people have died with lung cancer who never touched a cigarette, and then elderly ones who smoked and drank, yet lived to be 90+
As Jesus said, it’s not what goes into a person, but rather what comes out that can be sinful.🤷
 
vindicated said:
I knew a very special and saintly priest,who was a personal friend of Teresa of Calcutta. He enjoyed smoking cigarettes. he also had the ability to touch a Host and could actually “feel” if it were consecrated or not. He lived to be in his mid-eighties. There is not a doubt in my mind, nor anyone who ever knew him, that he is a Saint.
There are so many more important issues than cigarettes. I personally don’t believe that smoking CAUSES cancer. I believe that it is genetic. Working in the monument industry, I have seen too many cases where young people have died with lung cancer who never touched a cigarette, and then elderly ones who smoked and drank, yet lived to be 90+
As Jesus said, it’s not what goes into a person, but rather what comes out that can be sinful.🤷
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Vindicated,

You are in denial. You may want to spend some time in the anatomy lab looking at the cross section of lungs black from smoking. You may want to spend some time with people that have had their larynx removed and have to breathe through their neck because of cigarettes. You may want to visit the prosthetic shop where too many amputees exist because they lost their limbs from smoking. You may want to see how the lips of those that use chewing tobacco look when they are amputated and need reconstruction. You might consider visiting with people in nursing homes and see how the skin of those that smoke differs from those that don’t, examine the fingertips and teeth of those that smoke and those that don’t.

Your personal views are wrong.
 
thewanderer said:
Debora, I didn’t realize this until my fiance started smoking, but most people who smoke regularly are smoking at least a pack a day, and apparantly the studies that show health risks show them for people who smoke that much. (Although, I could be mistaken about that, as I never double-checked it.)
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In my opinion you are most definitely mistaken.

We are not allowed to give any medical advice on this forum and perhaps we’re straying into that territory now. Anyone who wants to explore this further should be able to find ample studies (preferably from peer-reviewed reputable journals) looking at the health effects of any level of smoking - heavy, moderate, light, passive, second hand, and any other form of smoking.
 
underacloud said:
In my opinion you are most definitely mistaken.

We are not allowed to give any medical advice on this forum and perhaps we’re straying into that territory now. Anyone who wants to explore this further should be able to find ample studies (preferably from peer-reviewed reputable journals) looking at the health effects of any level of smoking - heavy, moderate, light, passive, second hand, and any other form of smoking.
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Cloud,

You don’t have to go to journals, studies, peer review…wow, folks on this thread have this peer review thing out of whack…this is all public information…just go to the CDC. Facts are facts. You don’t need peer review, you don’t need journals, you don’t need studies…they have all been done…Cigarettes kill you…

cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/health/attrdeaths/index.htm
Annual Deaths Attributable to Cigarette Smoking—United States, 2000–2004
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cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5802a2.htm
State-Specific Smoking-Attributable Mortality and Years of Potential Life Lost — United States, 2000–2004
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Now if I tell you that no animal eats tobacco because they know that it is a poison and if I tell you that tobacco is a natural insecticide or herbal DDT that kills Aphids and that the smartest animal on the planet, the Orangatan won’t eat it…

If I tell you that the Bible tells us to have dominion over the animals and if we eat and smoke this stuff that they won’t touch…how can we, smarter than they are, eat or smoke this stuff and have dominion…those monkeys will be laughing at us…

Is that medical advice…?
 
vindicated said:
I knew a very special and saintly priest,who was a personal friend of Teresa of Calcutta. He enjoyed smoking cigarettes. he also had the ability to touch a Host and could actually “feel” if it were consecrated or not. He lived to be in his mid-eighties. There is not a doubt in my mind, nor anyone who ever knew him, that he is a Saint.
There are so many more important issues than cigarettes.** I personally don’t believe that smoking CAUSES cancer. **I believe that it is genetic. Working in the monument industry, I have seen too many cases where young people have died with lung cancer who never touched a cigarette, and then elderly ones who smoked and drank, yet lived to be 90+
As Jesus said, it’s not what goes into a person, but rather what comes out that can be sinful.🤷
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Smoking causes cancer. That is a fact that cannot be denied or disputed. It has been scientifically proven.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in fantasy land.
 
CopticChristian said:
Cloud,

You don’t have to go to journals, studies, peer review…wow, folks on this thread have this peer review thing out of whack…this is all public information…just go to the CDC. Facts are facts. You don’t need peer review, you don’t need journals, you don’t need studies…they have all been done…Cigarettes kill you…
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I am merely taking a conservative approach. There is, after all, still plenty of misinformation about any topic one could research on the internet. But anyone who reads peer-reviewed medical journals, or articles based on such, will have little doubt about the health impact of any level of smoking.

Is this medical advice? Maybe, maybe not. It remains the case that at this moment, the Church only describes excessive smoking as sinful. Each person needs to make their own determination on what this means. I expect by now my thoughts are quite clear, but it’s not my place to impose these thoughts on others (apart from my own family).
 
underacloud said:
I am merely taking a conservative approach. There is, after all, still plenty of misinformation about any topic one could research on the internet. Is this medical advice? Maybe, maybe not. It remains the case that at this moment, the Church only describes excessive smoking as sinful. Each person needs to make their own determination on what this means. I expect by now my thoughts are quite clear, but it’s not my place to impose these thoughts on others (apart from my own family).
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Cloud,
But anyone who reads peer-reviewed medical journals, or articles based on such, will have little doubt about the health impact of any level of smoking.
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You don’t need to read journals, peer reviewed or not…the cat is out of the bag…this stuff will kill you…
 
You can get killed walking your dog. At the end of the day, everyone dies, and something killed them. Whether it was a cigarette, a beer, or their genes. The problem is excess, because it begins to take over your life. You develop an emotional attachment to it and you begin to need it.
 
underacloud said:
I am merely taking a conservative approach. There is, after all, still plenty of misinformation about any topic one could research on the internet. But anyone who reads peer-reviewed medical journals, or articles based on such, will have little doubt about the health impact of any level of smoking.

Is this medical advice? Maybe, maybe not. It remains the case that at this moment, the Church only describes excessive smoking as sinful. Each person needs to make their own determination on what this means. I expect by now my thoughts are quite clear, but it’s not my place to impose these thoughts on others (apart from my own family).
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Cloud,

I subscribe to and read medical journals, do you?

If I want to find about the health impact of smoking I go to the CDC or National Institute of Health…found here…already posted the CDC…

cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/cessation

go here and type in the word tobacco…and watch and see the drop down list…I have no time to read all this stuff when the CDC and National Institute of Health already have the information…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=harm+tobacco

Journals are not the place to go…
 
jimmy said:
You can get killed walking your dog. At the end of the day, everyone dies, and something killed them. Whether it was a cigarette, a beer, or their genes. The problem is excess, because it begins to take over your life. You develop an emotional attachment to it and you begin to need it.
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Jimmy,

Does that mean my sunflower seeds are a risk?
 
jimmy said:
Probably. There have probably been a few studies that support the prospect of cancer being caused by sunflower seeds.
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Jimmy,

Nope…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22591208
Nutr Cancer. 2012;64(5):652-65. doi: 10.1080/01635581.2012.683227. Epub 2012 May 16.
The association between dietary lignans, phytoestrogen-rich foods, and fiber intake and postmenopausal breast cancer risk: a German case-control study.
Zaineddin AK, Buck K, Vrieling A, Heinz J, Flesch-Janys D, Linseisen J, Chang-Claude J.
SourceUnit of Genetic Epidemiology, Division of Cancer Epidemiology, German Cancer Research Center, Heidelberg, Germany.
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Our results provide evidence for a reduced postmenopausal breast cancer risk associated with increased consumption of sunflower and pumpkin seeds and soybeans.
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