Smoking is intrinsically disorderd

[goofyjim]

Tobacco is an unnecessary drug. Whereas scripture allows us the moderate use of alcohol.

 

[Joe_5859]

Substitute the word masturbation in where the word smoking is…aren’t they the same thing? Why is one condemend as being ‘grave’ while the other is not?

I recall a bumper sticker I once saw: “It is better to smoke here than in the hereafter!”

Smoking and masturbation are certainly not the same thing. (And I say this as someone who really does not like smoking )

Our sexual faculties have a design to them and a purpose. This is evident even from natural law. The parts of a man and the parts of a woman are naturally complementary. Of course, as Catholics, we rely on Scripture and Tradition to give us even more insight into the whole thing. We know that God has ordained sex for marriage.

To masturbate, even once, is a totally contrary to the design and purpose of our sexual faculties. Our faculties are not there for our own amusement. They aren’t there as some sort of “pressure valve” that must be released at regular intervals else we explode. Our sexual faculties exist for the sake of marriage and children. Their purpose is to unite us with our spouse and create new life. Masturbation accomplishes neither.

Smoking is in a totally different category.

There are some things that are inherently disordered. These are called intrinsic evils. Murder and misuse of our sexual faculties (through adultery, fornication, masturbation, etc.) are intrinsic evils.

Some things are not inherently evil but are morally neutral. It is only through excess that they become sinful. I think I understand where your confusion lies. You might say that smoking in excess is different than eating in excess because we have to eat something, but we don’t have to smoke. Fine. Then let’s use a different anaology. Say you like to play video games. There’s nothing inherently wrong with playing a video game. No one has to play them. We could all live perfectly normal lives without them. And playing them in excess would be wrong. But that doesn’t make it inherently wrong to play them at all.

I hope that clarifies things at least a little!

 

[Joe_5859]

Is masturbation considered (or more precisely: taught by the Church) to be ‘gravely disordered’?

tee

Yes! From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

CCC 2352: By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”

It’s not a question of what the Church teaches, it’s only a question as to whether you believe it and follow it.

 

[ForwardProgress]

The lungs have a design; to provide the human body with oxygen, and to exhale CO2. To interfere with that process by smoking it up for pleasure’s sake is intrinsically disordered. The primary use of the lungs is not a pleasure center…

So why isn’t smoking grave matter by being intrinsically disorder, as is masturbation…

smoking = selfish
selfish = sin
disordered use of the body tends to be ranked as grave
smoking is a disorderd use of the lungs
Why is smoking not grave matter??

 

[whatevergirl]

The lungs have a design; to provide the human body with oxygen, and to exhale CO2. To interfere with that process by smoking it up for pleasure’s sake is intrinsically disordered. The primary use of the lungs is not a pleasure center…

So why isn’t smoking grave matter by being intrinsically disorder, as is masturbation…

smoking = selfish
selfish = sin
disordered use of the body tends to be ranked as grave
smoking is a disorderd use of the lungs
Why is smoking not grave matter??

I don’t think one’s lungs experience the pleasure, although I totally see what you are saying. I think that we as human beings should be contributing to life, not death. Smoking will lead to cancer, in most cases–or heart disease, etc. Same as gluttony, or excessive drinking. Drinking wine on occasion (they drank wine in the Bible we’ve read) is not sinful, because drinking wine or beer on occasion will not contribute to death–the excess/frequency will. Smoking, even moderately, can lead to a variety of health disorders/diseases. Anything that we do as humans to contribute to health problems, of ourselves or others, should be considered sinful, to a degree. Our parish priest nearly every weekend, stands in front of the parish door, smoking away. God bless him, I know we all have our issues–but he is the head pastor–for the sake of children needing good examples, he should not be smoking where all parishioners walking in, can see this. My dad died of lung cancer, this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart–and I loathe smoking, but to see a priest doing this right before mass…ugh. It just is not the place.

But back to the topic–I believe that anything that we do as humans to contribute to the destruction of our bodies, could be viewed as sinful…but in some cases, addictions can cause a person to be less culpable…therefore, I don’t view it in the same genre as ‘other’ mortal sins.

 

[sarah_anne_628]

Smoking and masterbation are in no way in the same league. Masterbation leads to a whole array of wicked deeds…it may start off as adolescent curiosity or with fantasies of moral sex with you spouse…but it WILL escalate. Pretty soon, thinking about your hubby isn’t going to do the trick. So you have to turn to other things…sinful things (and obviously, adolescents have nothing moral in which to fantasize).

Smoking does not lead or tempt one to commit other sins. If there are temptations, then it is something else not the smoking. For instance…smokers in college or the work place form kind of a bond in the “outcast” circle (it is actually how I met my husband)…people from ALL walks of life are in these circles…and that includes bad influences. Am I making any sense?

Also something to consider…smoking is not as simple as drinking or eating in excess. It has the addictive power of herorin. All it takes is ONE cigarette and you’re hooked. So as Christians, we really should flee from smoking. But we should also have compassion on smokers. Studies have shown that there is a link between depression and smoking. Not so much that smoking causes depression…but people who are depressed are more likely to pick it up. But the sin of smoking lies in failing to trust God’s healing power.

I am in no way trying to trivialize smoking or make it sound better than it is. But people don’t do it because it “brings pleasure”. Certainly, it is enjoyable-particuarly the social aspect of it and having something to do with my hands…but I don’t reach for the cigarettes for pleasure…in fact, they make me feel like crud…it’s the addiction that drives the impulse to smoke. And it is a very complicated addiction.

I am merely advocating for patience and compassion. I promise you…preachign to a smoker about their smoking is not going to inspire them to quit. It’s infuriating when a stranger or mere acquaintance lectures me. Neither is telling a smoker what they are doing to their bodies going to inspire them to quit…trust me, we know, and could probably name a few more things you didn’t know about.

I would wager that the majority of the time that a non-smoker, Christian or not, lectures a smoker about smoking, it is not out of love or compassion. It is out of pride and judgment because this non-smoker is doing right and it makes them feel morally superior or more intelligent that they are NOT smoking.

If, however, you want to reach out to a smoker because you truly care…then it would be best to let the smoker bring it up. We are riddled with guilt and will constantly say things like, “I know, I need to quit”…they have opened the door. Scare tactics do not work. Telling them about your great uncle who died of lung cancer is not the way in. Instead, try talking to them/us about positive stories. “My mom smoked and decided she didn’t like the way it made her feel…it was hard, but she found that such and such worked for her…it took a couple of times, but she did kick it”. You can say things like, “well when you feel ready, God will show you the way and help you…you don’t ahve to feel guilty or alone.”

If you know of a program or product or support group or whatever, share what you know. Let them know it usually takes several tries before a smoker is able to kick the habit for good (I think studies say on average 7 times-I’ve done it like 3 or 4 times)…tell them not to be discouraged if they slip.

With all that said…(if you are still reading)…I do NOT think that us smokers should be the head pastor or serve in certain leadership positions within the church…nor should we be allowed to work with children. But that isn’t an excuse for a smoker NOT to serve. Perhaps they can’t serve communion, but maybe being a lector is ok (I know our Parish does not have a problem with me singing in the choir and reading Scripture-but I am on a military installation and the situations here are unique…so the leadership may be a little more tolerant.)

 

[ForwardProgress]

I disagree on the pleasure part…I used to be a smoker/smokless user…I got much chemical relaxation from smoking/chewing. It was a self-indulgence that costs money that could have been used for my family, church, etc…it was harmful to my health, my relationship (my wife hated it), and it was harmful to those around me. It made me less productive at work, and could had led to other drug use. It was addicting, as well. When I was a teen, it was a rush because it was taboo. I don’t know if any amount of smoking is ‘ok’.

So why isn’t it considered grave matter, like masturbation?

 

[patg]

Substitute the word masturbation in where the word smoking is…aren’t they the same thing? Why is one condemend as being ‘grave’ while the other is not?

The difference? One is harmless, healthy, and its prohibition is based on a several thousand year old misunderstanding of biology while the other is a known detriment to health.

 

[manualman]

The difference? One is harmless, healthy, and its prohibition is based on a several thousand year old misunderstanding of biology while the other is a known detriment to health.

You should disclose that such a sentiment is incompatible with catholic teaching when you advocate it.

Tobacco in the form it takes in today’s cigarettes is only a few decades old. Natural tobacco as it existed a hundred years ago had a fraction of the nicotine of today’s (and not by accident).

Church teaching is NOT guaranteed to be comprehensive on all issues! Infallibility is a mere negative protection. It only guarantees that what IS taught won’t be wrong. It does not guarantee that things won’t fall through the cracks!

I think you (the OP) are onto something, but not what you’d hoped. If nothing changes in the next few decades you might just see smoking of nicotine enhanced tobacco added to the grave matter ‘list.’ Because of the extra nicotine, there is no safe dose that doesn’t lead to addiction like there probably once was when nicotine was so much lower.

 

[ForwardProgress]

I think you (the OP) are onto something, but not what you’d hoped. If nothing changes in the next few decades you might just see smoking of nicotine enhanced tobacco added to the grave matter ‘list.’ Because of the extra nicotine, there is no safe dose that doesn’t lead to addiction like there probably once was when nicotine was so much lower.

And that would be cool by me! It would be only fair.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I think smoking in excess where it depresses one to be in despair is sinful. I know folks who really enjoy a few cigs, cigars, and some chew a year. They don’t shell out loads and loads of $ on it. And as a matter a fact most of what they smoke is home grown. They have a passion for growing, experimenting, and enjoying not too mention home grown tobacco is much less but still carcinogenic. This is not sinful

Now I also know some folks who do smoke constantly. They’re always thinking when can I have my next cig. Pouring out loads of $. They are sad, depress, can’t focus on work, not to mention a part of what they are smoking is not even tobacco but more carcinogenic substitutes.

Can you see the difference?

Food for thought:

It takes 2 lbs of tobacco to make about 800 all tobacco cigarettes. Most tobacco companies in average will use about 1.75 lbs to make a little over 1000 cigarettes.

 

[JimG]

Off topic, but Mark Twain once remarked that he found it strange that Christians exclude from heaven the three things we enjoy most–sex, tobacco, and whiskey.

 

[sarah_anne_628]

I disagree on the pleasure part…I used to be a smoker/smokless user…I got much chemical relaxation from smoking/chewing. It was a self-indulgence that costs money that could have been used for my family, church, etc…it was harmful to my health, my relationship (my wife hated it), and it was harmful to those around me. It made me less productive at work, and could had led to other drug use. It was addicting, as well. When I was a teen, it was a rush because it was taboo. I don’t know if any amount of smoking is ‘ok’.

So why isn’t it considered grave matter, like masturbation?

Nicotine is actually a stimulant. The reason why you felt relaxation was because you were addicted and up until the moment you took in nicotine, you were ‘niccing’…you were more tense. When you got your fix, it relaxed you.

I don’t think anything good can come of smoking (except maybe meeting your future spouse…as I did)

But I don’t think it is on the same plane as masterbation.

 

[patg]

You should disclose that such a sentiment is incompatible with catholic teaching when you advocate it.

That doesn’t make it any less true (and I’m not “advocating” anything).

I think you (the OP) are onto something, but not what you’d hoped. If nothing changes in the next few decades you might just see smoking of nicotine enhanced tobacco added to the grave matter ‘list.’

I wonder if a deadly act is only called suicide if one does it quickly?

 

[ForwardProgress]

I wonder if a deadly act is only called suicide if one does it quickly?

ZING!! Nice one!

 

[cargau]

Wow! I’ve read a number of these posts and I think many are nothing short of ridiculous.

No one ever died from smoking a cigarette, just like no one ever died from eating one steak. However, either of these can be abused if they are used to excess.

I enjoy a periodic cigar. I smoke it not to do harm to my body, but because I enjoy it. Sorry, no sin there. I might also have a beer or even a little scotch with my cigar.

Is the intent of my behavior to get closer to Christ? Not directly, but neither is buying a new car, eating a good piece of candy or buying a new pair of shoes.

Masturbation and pornography fracture the sancity of marriage and God’s gift of sex. Smoking, in itself, does no such thing.

 

[patg]

Wow! I’ve read a number of these posts and I think many are nothing short of ridiculous.

Masturbation … fractures the sancity of marriage and God’s gift of sex.

I think that is nothing short of ridiculous.

Smoking, in itself, does no such thing.

Actually, I see smoking as having quite an ability to fracture a marriage/relationship.

 

[manualman]

1. That doesn’t make it any less true (and I’m not “advocating” anything).
2. I wonder if a deadly act is only called suicide if one does it quickly?

1. It is an important factor if you consider catholic teaching to be Divine Revelation rather than merely the prevailing opinion of a bunch of old guys in funny costumes.
2. Again, catholic teaching simply does not currently explicitly teach about modern industrial tobacco use. This doesn’t mean it ISN’T sinful to use such a surely fatal product. It merely means we need to deduce that fact based on principles rather than rules. BOTH are binding moral guides.

It is true that one who perfectly understands and submits to the principles within Divine Revelation no longer needs rules, for the principles will guide him to the correct answer. Problem is that there are a LOT of folks out there who way overestimate their grasp of the principles. Rules are handy double checks for us!

P.S. Looks like we both could use a software engineer’s help figuring out how to insert comments between quote fragments…

 

[cargau]

I think that is nothing short of ridiculous.

Actually, I see smoking as having quite an ability to fracture a marriage/relationship.

So does snoring, but that’s not sinful. Look, I get the hype. A lot of people are really anti-smoking. But, we still need to understand the nature of intrinsic evil. One cannot do a little bit of adultry without harming a marriage. One cannot do one or two abortions without taking a life. But, smoking moderately is not evil. It can be soothing and relaxing.

Now, before you get after me, I am not trying to sell the concept of smoking as a good thing. It’s simply one thing a person chooses to do. Only when the use of tobacco becomes so abused that it does do harm can it be considered sinful. Use the same principle but insert the use of red meat, candy, the internet, TV, etc…

 

[CreatioNova]

So does snoring, but that’s not sinful. Look, I get the hype. A lot of people are really anti-smoking. But, we still need to understand the nature of intrinsic evil. One cannot do a little bit of adultry without harming a marriage. One cannot do one or two abortions without taking a life. But, smoking moderately is not evil. It can be soothing and relaxing.

Now, before you get after me, I am not trying to sell the concept of smoking as a good thing. It’s simply one thing a person chooses to do. Only when the use of tobacco becomes so abused that it does do harm can it be considered sinful. Use the same principle but insert the use of red meat, candy, the internet, TV, etc…

A good point, well and calmly made, BUT while no one individual candy is harmfull, no one single piece of red meat is harmful, EVERY single cigarette is harmfull.

But I do agree - not a sin - but that’s coz I’m a smoker