Smoking is intrinsically disorderd

[consumedconvert]

I’ll exclude them in my home and car as well.

I wouldn’t chew or snuff anyway. I’m not particularly good at expectorating–can you imagine the mess? Blech.

My wife and I went to a fancy restaurant for lunch today (true story) and guess what? The bathroom, which was spotless and built like a work of art, what with art deco urinals and sinks, had an automatic air freshiner that made it smell like the worlds best smelling aromatic tobacco, Captain Black! At first I thought someone had smoked a pipe in there!

Which reminds me, you might actually want me to smoke some pipe tobaccos in your car–like Captain Black

Of course we disagree about toxicity. In several studies, the average pipe smoker lived as long as the average non-smoker. Another (unsubstantiated?) study found that one could smoke twenty pipes bowls a day (quite a feat when one considers that one bowl takes an hour in some larger pipes!) before one had the same risk as a light cigarette smoker. I can post the link if you want

One reason is that the vast majority of pipe smokers (including myself) do not inhale, or only inhale occasionally. Another reason is that pipe tobaccos are blended from tobacco plants around the world, different kinds of tobaccos (like latakia, perique, Red Virginia, and burley), but there aren’t a lot of additives.

 

[goofyjim]

I wouldn’t chew or snuff anyway. I’m not particularly good at expectorating–can you imagine the mess? Blech.

My wife and I went to a fancy restaurant for lunch today (true story) and guess what? The bathroom, which was spotless and built like a work of art, what with art deco urinals and sinks, had an automatic air freshiner that made it smell like the worlds best smelling aromatic tobacco, Captain Black! At first I thought someone had smoked a pipe in there!

Which reminds me, you might actually want me to smoke some pipe tobaccos in your car–like Captain Black

Of course we disagree about toxicity. In several studies, the average pipe smoker lived as long as the average non-smoker. Another (unsubstantiated?) study found that one could smoke twenty pipes bowls a day (quite a feat when one considers that one bowl takes an hour in some larger pipes!) before one had the same risk as a light cigarette smoker. I can post the link if you want

One reason is that the vast majority of pipe smokers (including myself) do not inhale, or only inhale occasionally. Another reason is that pipe tobaccos are blended from tobacco plants around the world, different kinds of tobaccos (like latakia, perique, Red Virginia, and burley), but there aren’t a lot of additives.

I’m sorry. I still don’t want anyone smoking anything in my home or car. I like the odor the way it is-natural and none.

 

[cargau]

True…but, smoking is one of those things that is toxic, no matter if done in moderation. A glass of wine, because it is natural, depending on the wine of course, is not toxic. Most alcohols are not toxic, as they are fermented and derived from natural means. Cigarettes are synthetic…they have tar, and carcinogens in them. Smoking something like this even if in moderation, is toxic. Having an occasional slice of cake, etc is not toxic. It’s food.
In excess or beyond moderation, it can cause obesity, diabetes, etc…but, smoking cigarettes, even in moderation, are toxic. The very first cigarette is toxic. I think we’ll have to just agree to disagree on this point. I wouldn’t tell my kids–it’s ok to smoke just do it in moderation. I just don’t liken cigarettes on the same playing field with drinking a glass of red wine, or having a beer or two, on occasion. Because of their toxicity, I feel this way.

Again–I guess everyone has different opinions on the subject.

The purpose of this thread was to determine the sinfulness of smoking. I am real clear that many of you abhor smoking in any form. But, is that enough to declare it sinful. And further, are we as the lay faithful in a position to determine that which is sinful and that which isn’t.

I am not trying to defend smoking, pe se. I am merely trying to look at this issue from a deeper level.

Oh, and the toxicity point…Everytime you drink a glass of tapwater, you ingest a small amount of arsenic. Again, what is the formula fo declaring sin?

 

[stringbeanduck]

Oh, and the toxicity point…Everytime you drink a glass of tapwater, you ingest a small amount of arsenic. Again, what is the formula fo declaring sin?

I prefer tap rather than bottle too. Also the air we breath is full of dust a carsinogenic particles in PPM.

 

[whatevergirl]

The purpose of this thread was to determine the sinfulness of smoking. I am real clear that many of you abhor smoking in any form. But, is that enough to declare it sinful. And further, are we as the lay faithful in a position to determine that which is sinful and that which isn’t.

I am not trying to defend smoking, pe se. I am merely trying to look at this issue from a deeper level.

Oh, and the toxicity point…Everytime you drink a glass of tapwater, you ingest a small amount of arsenic. Again, what is the formula fo declaring sin?

yes, we cannot determine sin, and i’m definitely not saying this is intrinsically disordered…i stated that a few posts up. For me, I have always tried to look at behaviors of myself, my kids, etc…as ‘does this edify God?’ I don’t think smoking edifies God. Personally, I feel it to be insulting to God, to justify dangerous and unhealthy behaviors. Our bodies are the temple of the Lord…smoking, over eating, drug use (cocaine, etc), abuse of alcohol, etc…really don’t bring us closer to God. I don’t believe those habits to be ***intrinsically disordered ***though–they are habits that we should try to break for the love of God, and ourselves, as His creation. There are a myriad of unhealthy behaviors out there, but since we’re on smoking in this thread, that’s my stance on that.

 

[whatevergirl]

I prefer tap rather than bottle too. Also the air we breath is full of dust a carsinogenic particles in PPM.

Yes, our world is growing in the pollution category , but, there are some things out of our control. It is not a “bad habit” to breathe air that might have traces of pollutants in it, (although harmful to us) but it is well within our control to smoke or not smoke. That is really more of the difference I see with it. Again, not a disorder…but, definitely something that doesn’t draw us nearer to God…if anything, justifying it, making excuses for it, can lead us further away from God. Not until recently, was pedophilia marked by the Church as a mortal sin. Did we really see pedophilia as anything but sinful, though, before the Church declared it such? I don’t liken smoking with pedophilia–haha–please know that!!! I am merely pointing out, that the Church doesn’t need to declare every single act we do as potentially sinful, for us to stop the behavior, does it? If it leads one away from God, for whatever reason…whatever the habit…we should try to stop it. I don’t have the capacity to declare something a sin, but God expects us to also use our own intuition and minds to make wise, healthy decisions, that keep us aligned to Him.

Just my thoughts.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Your thoughts are great.
As I said in the past I do believe in some instances smoking can be sinful but NOT every instance. No doubt it can lead us away from God, but I say definitely not in all cases. I can agree with you about many of the tobacco companies being evil. Did you see my earlier post?

It takes 2 lbs of tobacco to make about 800 all tobacco cigarettes. Most tobacco companies in average will use about 1.75 lbs to make a little over 1000 cigarettes.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Not until recently, was pedophilia marked by the Church as a mortal sin.

Can you clarify this please!?!?

tee

 

[stringbeanduck]

ttt

 

[whatevergirl]

Can you clarify this please!?!?

tee

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336330,00.html (the latest sins ‘added’ by the RCC) As you know, this was a recent story in the news…thing is, most likely it was always considered evil, but it has been officially stated as such, in this list as shown in the link. I don’t want to derail this thread…this was intended to show that what was this then before the RCC added this to the ‘list?’ It was most certainly sinful behavior…but, I’m showing that there are some cases where it has taken time for the RCC to officially state its stance on certain sins.

But, again, I’m not comparing the two–just saying that just because our Church doesn’t ‘officially’ state that something is sinful, doesn’t mean it can’t lead one into sin or away from God.

 

[cargau]

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336330,00.html (the latest sins ‘added’ by the RCC) As you know, this was a recent story in the news…thing is, most likely it was always considered evil, but it has been officially stated as such, in this list as shown in the link. I don’t want to derail this thread…this was intended to show that what was this then before the RCC added this to the ‘list?’ It was most certainly sinful behavior…but, I’m showing that there are some cases where it has taken time for the RCC to officially state its stance on certain sins.

But, again, I’m not comparing the two–just saying that just because our Church doesn’t ‘officially’ state that something is sinful, doesn’t mean it can’t lead one into sin or away from God.

I beg to differ with you. The following is taken from the catechism originally compiled in the early 90’s.

“2389 Connected to incest is any sexual abuse perpetrated by adults on children or adolescents entrusted to their care. The offense is compounded by the scandalous harm done to the physical and moral integrity of the young, who will remain scarred by it all their lives; and the violation of responsibility for their upbringing.”

As for smoking, the catechism does deal with the topic as it relates to excessive use,

“2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.”

Again, I realize that many of you find smoking repulsive. The presumption of declaring it sinful may be influenced to some degree by the fact that some of you will never be guilty of this new “sin”.

If you smoked an occasional pipe or cigar or even a cigarette, would you feel differently about labeling smoking a sin?

 

[whatevergirl]

I beg to differ with you. The following is taken from the catechism originally compiled in the early 90’s.

“2389 Connected to incest is any sexual abuse perpetrated by adults on children or adolescents entrusted to their care. The offense is compounded by the scandalous harm done to the physical and moral integrity of the young, who will remain scarred by it all their lives; and the violation of responsibility for their upbringing.”

As for smoking, the catechism does deal with the topic as it relates to excessive use,

“2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.”

Again, I realize that many of you find smoking repulsive. The presumption of declaring it sinful may be influenced to some degree by the fact that some of you will never be guilty of this new “sin”.

If you smoked an occasional pipe or cigar or even a cigarette, would you feel differently about labeling smoking a sin?

I didn’t label it a sin…I said it can lead one away from God…which can be looked at as sin. If something leads you away from God, what do you consider that? I don’t want to split hairs, but doing something bad just once, doesn’t make it less bad. lol

The 90’s is stll recent to declare pedophilia a sin–but before it was declared so, I would still have looked at abusing children sexually or otherwise, as sinful. But, I just mentioned that because I think God also expects of us, to use our values, thoughts, etc…to determine if something appears sinful–which abusing children, whether the Church would have declared that or not, would fall into that category. The reason I brought it up was to show that even if the Church doesn’t declare dangerous or toxic behaviors immoral, doesn’t mean that we still shouldn’t try our best to determine what might offend God, ourselves. Thanks for chatting–it’s been interesting to see different perspectives.

 

[tee_eff_em]

[tee’s last post on this derailment – I understand your point, but I think chosen a bad example to make it]

I’m showing that there are some cases where it has taken time for the RCC to officially state its stance on certain sins.

The 90’s is stll recent to declare pedophilia a sin–but before it was declared so, I would still have looked at abusing children sexually or otherwise, as sinful.

I don’t think you could have looked at it as sinful before it was “declared” so – It is not so recent as you believe. The Didache dates to the 1st Century…
(I would be surprised if there is not Scripture to condemn it as well)

tee

 

[whatevergirl]

[tee’s last post on this derailment – I understand your point, but I think chosen a bad example to make it]

I don’t think you could have looked at it as sinful before it was “declared” so – It is not so recent as you believe. The Didache dates to the 1st Century…
(I would be surprised if there is not Scripture to condemn it as well)

tee

I’m not sure what you mean here.

I don’t know of any Scripture that points directly to that, however, I believe there are references to violence against the innocent, etc…which I think would make sense.

 

[Joe_5859]

I don’t think you could have looked at it as sinful before it was “declared” so – It is not so recent as you believe. The Didache dates to the 1st Century…
(I would be surprised if there is not Scripture to condemn it as well)

Tee is right. From the Didache (ca. 100 AD):

1. And the second commandment of the Teaching; 2. You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, Exodus 20:13-14 you shall not commit pæderasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, …

Here’s the definition of pederasty. It’s basically the same thing as pedophilia.

 

[whatevergirl]

I will add though, the smoking only one cigarette scenario, not sure that is really what we’re speaking of here. But, if I were to find out that my son or dd were smoking at a party–even if their first time…I would not be happy, and would warn them of the harm of smoking. They are well aware of my stance on it, however…but, I think that everyone makes mistakes…it’s in the learning from those mistakes to grow closer to God, that we become better for having the experiences we have had.

It’s also been proven that 80% of kids who smoke cigarettes, take up pot…and other drugs. So, I think it would stand to reason that it’s a bad habit, and if we knowingly do things to harm our bodies, in some way, we are not concerned that our body is a temple of God. I have eaten to excess, drank to excess, etc in my life, and through God’s grace, He showed me that I was harming the body He gave to me. We only get one body, and through effort and prayer, we’ll learn to treat it the way God intended.

 

[whatevergirl]

Tee is right. From the Didache (ca. 100 AD):

Here’s the definition of pederasty. It’s basically the same thing as pedophilia.

thank you for this! I am confused as to why the media recently made it sound like pedophilia was something new being added by the Pope?

 

[stringbeanduck]

It’s also been proven that 80% of kids who smoke cigarettes, take up pot…and other drugs. So, I think it would stand to reason that it’s a bad habit, and if we knowingly do things to harm our bodies, in some way, we are not concerned that our body is a temple of God. I have eaten to excess, drank to excess, etc in my life, and through God’s grace, He showed me that I was harming the body He gave to me. We only get one body, and through effort and prayer, we’ll learn to treat it the way God intended.

I can vouch for that.

But, if I were to find out that my son or dd were smoking at a party–even if their first time…

In this instance where your DD or DS were to smoke I would consider it a sin. Now only would they be breaking the law, but they would be breaking the comandment: Honer thy father and mother.

However I doubt your kids would do such.

 

[whatevergirl]

I can vouch for that.

In this instance where your DD or DS were to smoke I would consider it a sin. Now only would they be breaking the law, but they would be breaking the comandment: Honer thy father and mother.

However I doubt your kids would do such.

aw–I hope not! Hey, good points too… I agree!

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

webmd.com/smoking-cessation/features/10-overlooked-reasons-to-quit-smoking

Just one cigarette is ok?

dailyhaha.com/_vids/litte_boy_smoking.htm