smoking

[JD1789]

JD I’m not sure why you are saying that there is no evidence to show that one can’t smoke cigars in moderation when those articles are based on evidence. Just who are you listening to to base your conclusion on? It’s known that the sun can cause skin cancer even in the winter months, but the sun also helps crops grow and gives a person vitamin D so we need the sun. Still we are told to put on sunscreen to protect us from its harmful rays. Food is necessary to sustain us but too much food or the wrong kind of foods can affect our health adversely. However, there are no health benefits to smoking so the analogy doesn’t wash. There’s absolutely no reason to smoke except for the pleasure that it brings, but we are not supposed to seek pleasure in the material things but the things of the Lord. Often I think about the money that’s spent on cigarettes and how that would be best served for those in need but we are people who often do the sin of gluttony. We are pleasing ourselves when we could be helping others and I’m also guilty of that one and I won’t ‘deny’ it and the more I seek the Lord the more I realize that. I thank the Pope for speaking out about it. I think we have a country filled with people who could do with a little or a lot less. That’s my two cents for what its worth. Peace…

All of those sources are at best expert opinion and the lowest level of evidence. All the sources they reference do not look at the effects of smoking cigars in moderation. We do know that those who smoke less have less negative risks. If you extrapolate that data, which is the best we can do, the risks are negligible. We are most definitely supposed to seek pleasure in the good things God gave us as long as they are moral and give thanks to Him.

 

[Karen107]

All of those sources are at best expert opinion and the lowest level of evidence. All the sources they reference do not look at the effects of smoking cigars in moderation. We do know that those who smoke less have less negative risks. If you extrapolate that data, which is the best we can do, the risks are negligible. We are most definitely supposed to seek pleasure in the good things God gave us as long as they are moral and give thanks to Him.

We agree those who smoke less have less negative risks, the point is that they are negative risks whether large or small…Who’s to say what goes in our bodies in small amounts won’t affect our long term health? We are what we eat (or breathe in this case) as they say… The question raised here then is smoking a moral act giving thanks to God? I say no because it doesn’t take in consideration the well being of oneself or others who breathe in the smoke and I don’t see tobacco as a good thing, it’s a poisonous thing. God gives us everything we need to sustain us in life so couldn’t we use His gifts more wisely like planting food for the hungry instead of tobacco?. Then that would give glory to God!

 

[exnihilo]

I don’t think smoking in moderation, which is very hard for most people to do, is all that bad for you. Any addiction is bad. So if you can truly smoke in moderation it is no worse than some other activities which can be harmful for you, and that can include some things which are otherwise considered healthy.

It reminds me of some backwoods friends of mine who think chewing tobacco is healthy compared to cigarettes. The reason so many studies tell us about cigarettes is because the vast majority of people who smoke, smoke cigarettes.

I think smokeless tobacco is much better for you and the data clearly backs this up. One problem with the whole field of tobacco and health is that it is highly political and dishonest. To me it makes sense that the smoke of something is worse than consuming it in other ways.

When you look into the research on smokeless tobacco the first thing you’ll find is that there is very little especially in comparison to smoked tobacco. You’ll also find that some research counts exotic forms of smokeless tobacco to be like the kinds used in the US and Scandinavia. One product that has been very well researched is Swedish snus. And the findings are that if it does increases cancer risks it barely does. It also basically has no effect on mortality.

Cigarette smoking was once actually promoted by health officials. At the time more Americans chewed tobacco and they tended to spit everywhere. There were concerns that this spit was spreading disease. Cigarettes were promoted as a healthier alternative. If you aware of the flip flops on things like eggs, carbs or the many other proclamations of medicine about health then you tend to be a bit more sceptical of the received wisdom.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Is smoking a sin? The occasional pipe or cigar, is that sinning?

Not in and of itself it seems. The Catechism says out of moderation it is a sin. However, you will get different opinions from different priests and people on the matter. Culpability can be limited in some situations. It all depends. It is definitely better not to smoke. I say that as a smoker by the way.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

All of those sources are at best expert opinion and the lowest level of evidence. All the sources they reference do not look at the effects of smoking cigars in moderation. We do know that those who smoke less have less negative risks. If you extrapolate that data, which is the best we can do, the risks are negligible. We are most definitely supposed to seek pleasure in the good things God gave us as long as they are moral and give thanks to Him.

Perhaps you could post some evidence for your side, I won’t hold you to the level of the us government or mayo clinic…

 

[JD1789]

Perhaps you could post some evidence for your side, I won’t hold you to the level of the us government or mayo clinic…

Those are both terrible sources. An article is not evidence. Not even close. They often contain citations to peer-reviewed sources, but themselves are not peer-reviewed nor do they contain a high level of evidence. Expert opinion is the lowest of the low when it comes to the heirs echo of evidence.

I would love to post a peer-reviewed study showing that smoking cigars in moderation is safe and leads to no statistically significant increase in health risks. Sadly, there are none. There are also no studies showing that moderate cigar smoking is unhealthy.

 

[mikekle]

There is no evidence to suggest smoking in moderation has a negative impact on ones health. The only studies I’ve found that include the risks of cigar smoking had the participants smoking multiple cigars a day. Assuming you are relatively healthy, there is no evidence that smoking tobacco in moderation is bad for your health and therefor is not sinful.

If anyone has evidence on the contrary I would love to see it.

Its not the tobacco that kills people, its the umpteen other toxins they put into cigarettes that do the damage, there is also a difference between cigars and cigarettes, people do not inhale cigars regularly, or smoke 20+ a day.

I still find it crazy cigarettes are even legal, if this was a new product, there is NO way they would give the OK for such a thing to be sold to the public, its not a question anymore on whether they are dangerous or not, that was resolved a long time ago. but when certain prescription drugs were found to be killing many people, the Govt agencies acted very quickly to stop that…??

The only reason they remain legal and with ZERO restrictions is due to the revenue they bring in from ‘sin taxes’, they also have very powerful lobbyists, this is why we dont see anyone suggesting new regulations on their sale

 

[Karen107]

There are also no studies showing that moderate cigar smoking is unhealthy.

JD if that is true, how can you proclaim what you are saying to be so? I personally believe it is irresponsible that anyone would pay claim to moderate cigar smoking being safe when clearly it is not. I’ve seen young adults buy cigars, thinking it somehow makes them look impressive but this is how habits start…Ie., out of peer pressure, confidence issues, whatever… As a previous poster mentioned I don’t believe the differences in the vices make anyone look impressive… IMO… I know it is a turn off to most people who don’t smoke and can be quite dangerous if someone with respiratory problems is around someone who smokes… And to have a smoker be around someone who smokes only encourages the habit and makes it hard to quit. I have yet to see a lifelong smoker say they like smoking and don’t want to quit, rather they say I wish I could quit… And it’s known that most lifelong smokers start when they were teenagers, smoking what they believe is moderately… Thanks to Ad campaigns like Joe Camel who targetted our young… Now the cigarette companies offer coupons and sales on their packages to keep people smoking… It’s an ongoing battle… It’s a habit that’s tremendously hard to break and so no one should ever start or be told that smoking is safe at moderate levels… I’ve seen smoking ruin too many lives…That’s sending a wrong message to our youth… Well I’ve said enough… .

 

[JD1789]

JD if that is true, how can you proclaim what you are saying to be so? I personally believe it is irresponsible that anyone would pay claim to moderate cigar smoking being safe when clearly it is not. I’ve seen young adults buy cigars, thinking it somehow makes them look impressive but this is how habits start…Ie., out of peer pressure, confidence issues, whatever… As a previous poster mentioned I don’t believe the differences in the vices make anyone look impressive… IMO… I know it is a turn off to most people who don’t smoke and can be quite dangerous if someone with respiratory problems is around someone who smokes… And to have a smoker be around someone who smokes only encourages the habit and makes it hard to quit. I have yet to see a lifelong smoker say they like smoking and don’t want to quit, rather they say I wish I could quit… And it’s known that most lifelong smokers start when they were teenagers, smoking what they believe is moderately… Thanks to Ad campaigns like Joe Camel who targetted our young… Now the cigarette companies offer coupons and sales on their packages to keep people smoking… It’s an ongoing battle… It’s a habit that’s tremendously hard to break and so no one should ever start or be told that smoking is safe at moderate levels… I’ve seen smoking ruin too many lives…That’s sending a wrong message to our youth… Well I’ve said enough… .

Your claim that moderate cigar smoking is clearly unsafe is unfounded. I never suggested immature or those with low self-esteem should smoke the occasional cigar. I’ve never suggested that one should smoke around anyone who is uncomfortable with it. The addictions of another do not mean there aren’t those who can practice moderation. I am not suggesting that cigarettes are okay. Just like I don’t like cheap lite beers because they are often associated with drunkness, I don’t like cigarettes because they are associated with addiction to tobacco. Of all the men and women I know who smoke cigars(about 20), only one smokes more than once a month. I’m with you on cigarettes being terrible. This includes the cheap “cigars” like swisher sweets. I have educated literally hundreds of people on the dangers of smoking as a part of my career and personaly rehabbed individuals who were so deconditioned from a life of smoking, drinking, and sedentary lifestyle that they were unable to walk. I understand the effects of the addiction to tobacco products.

I am saying there is good in the occasional cigar and it is safe enough to be enjoyed in moderation. The best conversations I’ve had have been over a cigar. Tobacco has been shown to have a positive effect on preventing Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease. It has an effect on the mind that I’ve experienced myself and enjoyed. It doesn’t limit ones freedom like alcohol can. I appreciate your concern for the health and well being of others. I myself have given years of education and thousands of dollars to be in a position to help others do the same. To say all use of tobacco in any quantity is sinful just does not seem to be a reasonable to me.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Your claim that moderate cigar smoking is clearly unsafe is unfounded. I never suggested immature or those with low self-esteem should smoke the occasional cigar. I’ve never suggested that one should smoke around anyone who is uncomfortable with it. The addictions of another do not mean there aren’t those who can practice moderation. I am not suggesting that cigarettes are okay. Just like I don’t like cheap lite beers because they are often associated with drunkness, I don’t like cigarettes because they are associated with addiction to tobacco. Of all the men and women I know who smoke cigars(about 20), only one smokes more than once a month. I’m with you on cigarettes being terrible. This includes the cheap “cigars” like swisher sweets. I have educated literally hundreds of people on the dangers of smoking as a part of my career and personaly rehabbed individuals who were so deconditioned from a life of smoking, drinking, and sedentary lifestyle that they were unable to walk. I understand the effects of the addiction to tobacco products.

I am saying there is good in the occasional cigar and it is safe enough to be enjoyed in moderation. The best conversations I’ve had have been over a cigar. Tobacco has been shown to have a positive effect on preventing Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease. It has an effect on the mind that I’ve experienced myself and enjoyed. It doesn’t limit ones freedom like alcohol can. I appreciate your concern for the health and well being of others. I myself have given years of education and thousands of dollars to be in a position to help others do the same. To say all use of tobacco in any quantity is sinful just does not seem to be a reasonable to me.

There are none so blind as who will not see…
Carry on with your justifications…

 

[mikekle]

I always found it strange, up until about the mid 90s, everyone just accepted smoking in buildings, planes, everywhere, they had smoking sections, but most had no physical barriers, it was just in another part of the room, smoke still traveled to the non smoking areas.

It took us this long to figure out second hand smoke should be avoided?!!

I dont recall anyone ever complaining about this either??

 

[hu324b]

Quitting is the hardest battle I have had in my life - and there isn’t one day that I can be safe from it. I have never done heroin but the addiction must be very similar if not worse because I can get cigarettes anywhere - my mine is constantly rationalizing any excuse possible to smoke a cigarette.Why would anyone want to fall into addiction? Do you believe you won’t get addicted? You are chained to those cigarettes for life - its a life sentence. Anyone who has smoked knows this - you can easily fall back and it gets harder to quit each time.
The focus should be on addiction. Its not smoking you like its the nicotine.

My advice - don’t even take one puff - its just like they say crack is - you can become addicted on the first puff.I really believe that is true for some people.

With all the information out there about how bad it is for you and its addictive properties - if you don’t smoke it would be insanity to start smoking with the information available - they are not lying every bad thing they say about it is true.

Don’t let your mind rationalize it - stick to the facts.

Rationalization is why people fail in their attempt to give up any addiction.

 

[Solmyr]

I suggest to read the book: “Licit and illicit drugs”. It is available on-line and free, here: blogs.elespectador.com/ladrograycolombia/files/2011/05/Licit-and-illicit.pdf. Very interesting collection of essays.

 

[mikekle]

Quitting is the hardest battle I have had in my life - and there isn’t one day that I can be safe from it. I have never done heroin but the addiction must be very similar if not worse because I can get cigarettes anywhere - my mine is constantly rationalizing any excuse possible to smoke a cigarette.Why would anyone want to fall into addiction? Do you believe you won’t get addicted? You are chained to those cigarettes for life - its a life sentence. Anyone who has smoked knows this - you can easily fall back and it gets harder to quit each time.
The focus should be on addiction. Its not smoking you like its the nicotine.

My advice - don’t even take one puff - its just like they say crack is - you can become addicted on the first puff.I really believe that is true for some people.

With all the information out there about how bad it is for you and its addictive properties - if you don’t smoke it would be insanity to start smoking with the information available - they are not lying every bad thing they say about it is true.

Don’t let your mind rationalize it - stick to the facts.

Rationalization is why people fail in their attempt to give up any addiction.

I agree, my dad quit smoking to save money over 23 years ago, but if he is around cigarette smoke, he still has a craving for them. (but not that intense).

Heroin is easier to quit, because normally, it doesnt take long for a person to reach a point where they are either forced to quit or truly need to for their lives sake, the average heroin user abuses it for roughly 3-5 years, its not something you can do for 15, 20, 30 yrs, you will either be dead from OD or reach a level of tolerance where you need to use upwards of 10 grams a day, at $150. a gram, most people could not afford a $1000+ a day habit. At my worst point, I was using 2-3 grams per day, my paycheck would be gone the day I got it, I would only keep $20 for food, gas, etc. everything else went to H.

Cigarettes, on the other hand, the average user can start in their teens and continue to smoke up until their 60s or 70s, if their health is decent, its not that expensive of a habit either, nor is tolerance an issue.

 

[BellsMom]

I quit almost 10 years ago with the help of my doctor and prescription drugs. I don’t think I’m in danger of picking up the habit again but I do miss it.

Sometime I think how awesome it would be if smoking were actually good for you! That would make me so happy.

I still smoke in my dreams. Thats not weird right? lol

 

[CuriousMike]

I am a non-smoker, although I’ve looked into this before and personally believe there are a lot of “vested interests” in the medical community pushing ideologies in order to benefit their own back pockets.
Surely the Government and Medical community care about people!?

Look beyond these Government medical pages into the actual research and you may see that things begin to come apart at the threads.

The Church itself has a teaching that moderation is the key. If we have “addictive personalities,” that is, that we are IN-temperate in our lifestyles, then we ought to avoid things that could make this situation worse for us.
If we cannot control these sorts of simple desires, then how are we expected to respond when a stronger temptation (e.g. for personal gratification) come our way?

So if you already have trouble controlling what you eat or drink, its best to avoid smoking.
Even coffee drinking can be “addictive” in the sense that it ends up making us more tired by the next morning, and we “need more” in order to continue functionality.

That said, a little bit of caffeine or nicotine (<- you could use the gum/sprays/etc if you must have it) in and of itself is not going to kill you. But if it enslaves you, that is another story.

Another thing I want to suggest is that the WHO now suggests that eating a steak induces the same risk of cancer that smoking cigarettes does. Does that mean that eating steak becomes a sin?
What about eating other foods that might “increase your risk of XYZ,” that are perfectly natural?
There comes a point where we must stop worrying about being sick and just be careful with what and how much.

 

[mikekle]

Surely the Government and Medical community care about people!?

.

Well,I think this depends on the particular product… example, when many people started abusing and dying due to use of some prescription medicine, the DEA and Govt acted pretty quickly to slow it down, even now, they are constantly changing laws regarding a handful of medicines, but we have known for many years how deadly cigarette smoking is, we see the numbers of people who die every year from it, yet Ive never heard one lawmaker suggest new restrictions or regulations.

We have the ATF, the T stands for tobacco…so what are they doing for the safety and health of the public in regards to tobacco? Even though it kills many people each year, and leads to enormous medical spending for sick people, anyone over 18 yo can go into any store and buy as many cartons as they like each and every day…?? We know the DEA in heavily involved in regulating dangerous meds, that is their job, Id like to read some of the things the ATF does in protecting the people from its designated product.

The difference between those prescription meds and cigarettes is, tobacco has a hefty sin tax on it, which brings in huge revenue, with huge companies behind it, so while it is a deadly product which kills many people, they will not impose any new laws that would threaten the revenue, heck, no one even suggests it!!?

So it appears they care more about the revenue and the tobacco industry versus the health and safety of the people.

 

[JD1789]

There are none so blind as who will not see…
Carry on with your justifications…

It will be kind of awkward the next time I go to confession to my spiritual direction after we finish smoking cigars together…