Smoking

[pnewton]

Not really, but I’ve been told risk is there. I was able to google this, which seems to indicate increased risk of early death for the type of smoker you ask about, but only for men.

Thanks.

I think kim has a good point. Disreagard of our neighbor and his comfort is a violation of basic charity, but then that would be a whole new topic.

 

[siamesecat]

Well in my opinion significant overeating and smoking would be considered sins because they are harmful to the body. But with eating, you could have cake a few times a week and most likely still be fine if you had other good diet and exercise habits. I mean, an occasional cigarette after a really stressful situation (and I’m saying like one a month) is probably not anything sinful. But unlike cake, which is fine in relative moderation, cigarettes are still very harmful in moderation. Even a couple a day or a couple a week would add up I would think, and they have no redeeming value. I guess my problem with this thread is people keep saying smoking is fine in moderation, like with junk food. But smoking is still potentially harmful in moderation, whereas junk food is not.

 

[ElizabethPH]

I knew this one was coming, so I had the obvious answer:

It’s not poison, but incense.

Seriously, do you notice that smoking is not mentioned in the scripture? That makes using this passage as a blanket condemnation of all smoking an application of the scripture, subject to individual circumstance. Since it does not mention smoking, it is not an interpretation of this scripture to apply it to smoking.

There are definitely many factors that can make smoking defile the body more, like smoking to a dangerous level, smoking when one has lung cancer or other smoking related ailment, or other aggrevating health factor.

I think the catechism may give us the best way of putting it. It may be a sin. Just as eating salty food may be to one with high blood pressure, or getting second helpings to one who is overweight may be a sin.

It’s not a poison???

Cigarette Chemicals*

Carbon monoxide Hydrogen cyanide Ozone
Vinyl chloride Formaldehyde Napthalenes
Acetaldehyde Hydrazine Arsenic
Formic acid Cadmium Nickel compounds
Lead Nitric oxide DDT
Pyrene Methyl chloride Hydrogen sulfide
Benzene Acetronitrile Nitrosamines
Acrylonitride Phenols Benzopyrene
Polynuclear aromatic Ammonia Hydrocarbons
Polonium-210 Radioactive compounds Endrin
Acids Dimethylnitrosamine Alcohols
Ethylmethylnitrosamine

Excerpt from Staying Healthy with Nutrition ~Elson M Haas MD~

 

[Aleii]

so then most of you will agree that saturated fats, which are proven to cause heart disease, which is the NUMBER ONE killer in America, is in fact also sinful.

Fats are a vital part of any diet; the body needs fat, though saturated fats are not good in high amounts. Fats in themselves are not bad. Smoking, however, does not start off as ‘good’ and become ‘bad for you’ with lack of moderation, however. Excessive amounts of fat do lead to complications, and there is a link between obesity and heart disease. There is also a link between smoking and heart disease. I was pretty sure that smoking is a bigger risk factor for heart disease than mild-moderate obesity but give me some time to look into getting a reference for that.

why is killing yourself with a fork different than killing yourself with tobacco?

Don’t think anyone said gluttony was a good thing

a smoker has a lifelong risk of death of 25% from smoking. an average American has a 40% chance of dying of heart disease from lifestyle related choices. So the smoker has lower odds of dying from his habit as the overweight eater has of dying from their habit.

hold up with this, i think your interpretation is coming out shaky. Lifestyle related choices often include whether or not someone smokes, as well as their diet, if they are sedentary or exercise, etc. You are measuring several risk factors which include smoking, against smoking alone. Of course when you compare smoking vs smoking+sedentary+obese+diabetes/etc the later will be worse!
The AHA includes smoking in “lifestyle choices” for example
americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=851

so those that condemn smoking… i’d like to come over and have a peek in your fridge.

Nope, most people don’t eat how they should. However, I have yet to see of any good that comes out of smoking. You pollute your body, pollute the air thereby hurting those around you, use money, etc. A very common question on health insurance forms is “do you use tobacco”.

The below link also talks about the link between second hand smoking and health detriments. Eating that twinkie while sitting next to your brother doesn’t harm him, but smoking next to him will.

What about passive or secondhand smoke?

The link between secondhand smoke (also called environmental tobacco smoke) and disease is well known, and the connection to cardiovascular-related disability and death is also clear.

americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4545

What are the dangers of environmental tobacco smoke (ETS)?

ETS contains the same harmful chemicals as the smoke that smokers inhale. In fact, because sidestream smoke is formed at lower temperatures, it contains even larger amounts of some toxic and cancer-causing substances than mainstream smoke.

cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2x_Questions_About_Smoking_Tobacco_and_Health.asp

Learn About the Risks
Cigarette smoking is the most important preventable cause of premature death in the United States. It accounts for nearly 440,000 deaths each year, of which more than 135,000 are due to smoking related cardiovascular diseases. Cigarette smokers are two-to-three times more likely to die from coronary heart disease than nonsmokers.

americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3038016

Whether or not you determine it should be labeled a sin vs some other label is one thing, but there are numerous studies and information that available now which prove it hurts yourself and those around you. Smoking should not be encouraged.

Concerning “occasional” smoking

At what level is it a hazard?

here’s your answer - any level

Is there a safe way to smoke?

No. All cigarettes can damage the human body. Any amount of smoke is dangerous. Cigarettes are perhaps the only legal product whose advertised and intended use – smoking – is harmful to the body and causes cancer.

Although some people try to make their smoking habit safer by smoking fewer cigarettes, most smokers find that hard to do. Research has found that even smoking as few as 1 to 4 cigarettes a day can have serious health consequences, including an increased risk of heart disease and a higher risk of dying at an earlier age… Smoking begins to cause damage right away and is highly addictive.

cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2x_Questions_About_Smoking_Tobacco_and_Health.asp

 

[Aleii]

Here’s some interesting information on smoking and the economy

How does tobacco use affect the economy?

The tobacco industry is one of the most profitable businesses in the country, making billions of dollars yearly. But the costs of smoking are far higher than the income from cigarette sales.

* Smoking causes more than $167 billion each year in health-related costs, including the cost of lost productivity due to smoking.

* Smoking-related medical costs totaled more than $75 billion in 1998 and accounted for 8% of personal health care medical expenditures.

* Death-related productivity losses due to smoking among workers cost the US economy more than $92 billion yearly (average for 1997-2001).

* For each pack of cigarettes sold in 1999, $3.45 was spent on medical care due to smoking, plus $3.73 in lost productivity, for a total cost of $7.18 per pack.

cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2x_Questions_About_Smoking_Tobacco_and_Health.asp
So there’s another reason not to smoke - for your country!

 

[Pug]

so then most of you will agree that saturated fats, which are proven to cause heart disease, which is the NUMBER ONE killer in America, is in fact also sinful.

Do you think eating saturated fat is sinful? (it is in the meat and cheese that I often eat)

 

[Aleii]

I guess my problem with this thread is people keep saying smoking is fine in moderation, like with junk food.

Agreed! Just one cigarette affects your body negatively! preventdisease.com/news/articles/one_cigarette_affects_heart.shtml

OSLO, Norway, Sept. 21-One to four cigarettes per day, generally considered light smoking, nearly triples the risk of heart disease and lung cancer, researchers here reported.

medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/Smoking/tb/1782

This study shows an acute increase in arterial stiffness after smoking 1 cigarette in chronic smokers and nonsmokers.

docguide.com/news/content.nsf/PaperFrameSet?OpenForm&refid=2&id=48dde4a73e09a969852568880078c249&newsid=8525697700573E1885256CA50001EB1D&u=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12511550&dopt=Abstract&ref=/news/content.nsf/news/8525697700573E1885256CA50001EB1D
docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/8525697700573E1885256CA50001EB1D

There is simply no safe way to smoke… just one cigarette can keep the heart from using oxygen properly for up to 24 hours. It releases enough poison to make the side of a blood vessel wall in the heart rough, which will start or increase the narrowing of the blood vessel and reduce the blood flow to the heart muscle and the body.

pamf.org/heartadvantage/preventive/cigarettes.html

 

[kim3260]

Moderation is good for you, but Cigarettes do not come under that fact.

Most people, (of course not all) can have a glass of wine and not have another for 6 months and not Crave It. Try having just on cigarette and have another in 6 months, it can’t be done.

You can have fast food once a month and be fine too. No one ever had effects of second hand big mac

The key is moderation which unfortunately for smokers even 2 cigarettes a day is doing damage, not to metion the damage to the person next to them.

 

[pnewton]

Agreed! Just one cigarette affects your body negatively! preventdisease.com/news/articles/one_cigarette_affects_heart.shtml

From this article:

Dr. Firas A. Ghanem and colleagues at the Brody School of Medicine of East Carolina University in Greenville, North Carolina, suspected that smoking might immediately, but transiently, impair the function of the left ventricle-the heart’s key pumping chamber–between heart muscle contractions. This impairment, also called LV diastolic dysfunction, has been linked to shortness of breath.

Transient shortness of breath? Better give up jogging too, if this is a concern.

I have looked into the articles and many others over the past year or two and have yet to see one that answers my question with any facts or research, despite the all the research that has been funded to document the health effects of smoking. If I was more than an occassional smoker, or have shown any inclination toward addiction, there might be a case.

In any case, remembering the topic of this thread and that this is a Catholic forum, I think we should stick to Church teaching and not add to it. Smoking might be a sin. Anything more exceeds the teaching of the church and enters into the realm of opinion and prudence.

kim:

Try having just on cigarette and have another in 6 months, it can’t be done.

Yes it can, or at least with cigars. I have done it. Even now I go weeks between with no smoking some days.

 

[boppaid]

so then most of you will agree that saturated fats, which are proven to cause heart disease, which is the NUMBER ONE killer in America, is in fact also sinful.
are you morally bound to read labels. no more twinkies or flaky puff pastries… that must too, be sinful, since the link between obesity and heart disease is also well documented. Thanksgiving is coming, pass on the butter, it is just as proven to kill as nicotine.

why is killing yourself with a fork different than killing yourself with tobacco?

a smoker has a lifelong risk of death of 25% from smoking. an average American has a 40% chance of dying of heart disease from lifestyle related choices. So the smoker has lower odds of dying from his habit as the overweight eater has of dying from their habit.

so those that condemn smoking… i’d like to come over and have a peek in your fridge.

I think overeating and gluttony is sinfil. However food, even those with trans fats have SOME redeeming qualities. It will keep you alive, full and fed. There are no redeeming qualities for smoking. Its sole purpose is enjoyment and destroying bodies. For me, that’s the difference.

 

[Aleii]

From this article:
Transient shortness of breath? Better give up jogging too, if this is a concern.

I have looked into the articles and many others over the past year or two and have yet to see one that answers my question with any facts or research, despite the all the research that has been funded to document the health effects of smoking. If I was more than an occassional smoker, or have shown any inclination toward addiction, there might be a case.

huh? Generally when people talk about smoking they are talking about cigarettes. Cigars are different than cigarettes are and have slightly different effects/implications. I gave tons of links to research and reputable organizations that state that smoking one cigarette has negative effects on the body. Just look at what cigarettes consist of, and research the science that goes on when you smoke to understand its detrimental effects. Do I really need to go into how smoking causing shortness of breath is far different than a jogger breathing hard? Come on now. (I will if you really don’t understand the difference though, and aren’t just being sarcastic)

These ‘facts’ in the research studies you say you’ve looked into and don’t believe they apply, are they just presented in a way that you don’t understand(Do you know what LV stands for, for example? Do you understand circulation of blood throughout the body and gas exchange in the lungs? Do you know the basics of cancer)? Or is it that you don’t trust those that procure these studies? Or is it that you don’t care enough about it or are scared that it might be true? Tell me then the ‘facts’ that you’ve found that show that cigar/cigarette smoking is good for the body.

In any case, remembering the topic of this thread and that this is a Catholic forum, I think we should stick to Church teaching and not add to it. Smoking might be a sin. Anything more exceeds the teaching of the church and enters into the realm of opinion and prudence.

Are you saying additions of scientific research on the biology of the body isn’t beneficial to a discussion of if smoking should be done or not?

Yes it can, or at least with cigars. I have done it. Even now I go weeks between with no smoking some days.

Cigars are a different than cigarettes. But I wonder if I start discussing why, and the implications of smoking cigars, if that will even matter to you based on what you wrote above?

I only hope that others are interested in how to keep themselves and their loved ones healthy, and will take the time to look at and understand the research to see that smoking is not the way to do that.

 

[pnewton]

Are you saying additions of scientific research on the biology of the body isn’t beneficial to a discussion of if smoking should be done or not?

This is a different question. Should one smoke and how much before it is a health risk? Is it sinful? One is a question of prudential judgement; the other is theological.

**

Cigars are a different than cigarettes.

But I wonder if I start discussing why, and the implications of smoking cigars, if that will even matter to you based on what you wrote above?** I am neither stupid, blind or ignorant. I found one study on cigars with a minimum of one a day. I understand that in excess, they are a danger. In this particular case of mouth and throat cancer. That is why I stay well below the minimum found to be harmful

I only hope that others are interested in how to keep themselves and their loved ones healthy, and will take the time to look at and understand the research…

I agree with this part. I do not know that I would label anyone sinful if they come to a different conclusion as others here have done, but we should protect our health and those of our loved ones.

Those of us that smoke even occasionally might not be so defensive if we have not been so assailed in recent years by those who wish judge those that smoke. Many lines of individual freedom have been crossed in a way that would have made our forefathers turn in their graves. BTW, I am** not** referring to the laws that protect all from being exposed against their will to second-hand smoke, mind you. I fully support that sort of regulation. I am glad that the Church has refused to go along with this current politically trend and allow a freedom of conscience.

 

[ElizabethPH]

This is a different question. Should one smoke and how much before it is a health risk? Is it sinful? One is a question of prudential judgement; the other is theological.

**** I am neither stupid, blind or ignorant. I found one study on cigars with a minimum of one a day. I understand that in excess, they are a danger. In this particular case of mouth and throat cancer. That is why I stay well below the minimum found to be harmful

I agree with this part. I do not know that I would label anyone sinful if they come to a different conclusion as others here have done, but we should protect our health and those of our loved ones.

Those of us that smoke even occasionally might not be so defensive if we have not been so assailed in recent years by those who wish judge those that smoke. Many lines of individual freedom have been crossed in a way that would have made our forefathers turn in their graves. BTW, I am** not** referring to the laws that protect all from being exposed against their will to second-hand smoke, mind you. I fully support that sort of regulation. I am glad that the Church has refused to go along with this current politically trend and allow a freedom of conscience.

It is an assault on the smoker I agree. Sorry it’s not enough to make you quit!! Many folks use that as an excuse to keep on smoking saying that all the judging makes them want to not quit smoking. It isn’t the person that’s being judged here but the act. Smoking kills. It just doesn’t cause health problems, it will kill you pure and simple. I know that’s harse and for those that are truly trying to quit smoking…don’t ever give up trying, you can quit! I smoked for 38 years. My husband smoked, it killed him. It still might kill me, who knows, 38 yrs of smoking sure hasn’t done me any good that’s for sure. If it’s not a sin it sure as heck should be.

Elizabeth

 

[Scottgun]

I think overeating and gluttony is sinfil. However food, even those with trans fats have SOME redeeming qualities. It will keep you alive, full and fed. There are no redeeming qualities for smoking. Its sole purpose is enjoyment and destroying bodies. For me, that’s the difference.

You at least admit it is for enjoyment. Whether it destroys the body depends on the amount. Pleasure is a legitimate end pursued in moderation. The far greater danger is joining the neo-pagan cult of the body.

 

[Scottgun]

It is an assault on the smoker I agree. Sorry it’s not enough to make you quit!! Many folks use that as an excuse to keep on smoking saying that all the judging makes them want to not quit smoking. It isn’t the person that’s being judged here but the act. Smoking kills. It just doesn’t cause health problems, it will kill you pure and simple. I know that’s harse and for those that are truly trying to quit smoking…don’t ever give up trying, you can quit! I smoked for 38 years. My husband smoked, it killed him. It still might kill me, who knows, 38 yrs of smoking sure hasn’t done me any good that’s for sure. If it’s not a sin it sure as heck should be.

Elizabeth

Nice anecdote. But here’s mine. I have a 92 grandfather-in-law who smokes a cigar every day since early days and is in great health. Personal moderation is true freedom. Not Islamic/Puritan prohibitions against this and that. Smoking does not kill you. Smoking too much might kill you.

Once again, NO one has supplied an viable argument that smoking is sinful in and of itself.

 

[Scottgun]

It is an assault on the smoker I agree. Sorry it’s not enough to make you quit!! Many folks use that as an excuse to keep on smoking saying that all the judging makes them want to not quit smoking. It isn’t the person that’s being judged here but the act. Smoking kills. It just doesn’t cause health problems, it will kill you pure and simple. I know that’s harse and for those that are truly trying to quit smoking…don’t ever give up trying, you can quit! I smoked for 38 years. My husband smoked, it killed him. It still might kill me, who knows, 38 yrs of smoking sure hasn’t done me any good that’s for sure. If it’s not a sin it sure as heck should be.

Elizabeth

Nice anecdote. But here’s mine. I have a 92 grandfather-in-law who smokes a cigar every day since early days and is in great health. Personal moderation is true freedom. Not Islamic/Puritan prohibitions against this and that.

 

[pnewton]

It is an assault on the smoker I agree. Sorry it’s not enough to make you quit!!

Do not be sorry. Assaulting someone’s freedom and then apologizing does not come across as sincere. Since the Church grants freedom of conscience in this, it is that freedom that is under assault. It is not the smoker, big tobacco or public health that is now being assaulted. It is freedom, even when it does not affect others, that is now being curtailed, at least in some areas.

 

[thechrismyster]

Do you think eating saturated fat is sinful? (it is in the meat and cheese that I often eat)

OH GOSH NO! i just had a plate of pierogies completely smothered in butter and onions followed by a dessert of almond babka completely smeared in more butter.
i’ve had more butter tonight than most people do in a week.
i see no problem with it at all, and neither does my stomach.

 

[Pug]

i’ve had more butter tonight than most people do in a week.

Butter, yum. I forgot about that one.

 

[Scottgun]

OH GOSH NO! i just had a plate of pierogies completely smothered in butter and onions followed by a dessert of almond babka completely smeared in more butter.
i’ve had more butter tonight than most people do in a week.
i see no problem with it at all, and neither does my stomach.

pierogies? What’s that? Sounds good.