Snake-handling and Sola Scriptura

[exnihilo]

Yet this is how this as a cult survives, through childhood indoctrination. No-one in their right mind would come from elsewhere to join. Cousre less one has some facination with snakes.

Every idea is spread through indoctrination of children. We just call it education when we agree with the content of the indoctrination. It does seem hard to imagine how this practice survives. But adults would have started it and originally spread it. Even if today it survives due to children being raised up in it at one time it had to rely on adult converts.

The mountains are full of natives who are very strong in their faith. This is often a good thing but not always. Compared with what is normal with those lacking any belief I’m not so sure the snake handlers are the craziest of folks in our society.

 

[TimothyH]

I would think they would interpret it as:

• his faith was not great enough in that situation or
• it was God’s will that he should die that day

It is an act of faith to handle the snake.

Given the doctrine of salvation by faith alone, it is considerd a great gift that God would choose to take one’s life while making such an act of faith.

That the person was taken while handling the deadly snake out of faith in God is taken as a sure sign that such a person was saved.

-Tim-

 

[JustaServant]

While in WVU in the 70s I attended InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. We had Christians of all stripes attending, even some Roman Catholics. One was a girl from a snake handling background. She was a nice girl, but a little strange.

You live up near Morgantown right Cajun? Right across the border is Greene County Pa which is almost as wild and desolate as parts of WV. But you’re still pretty close to civilization.
Most of these SH cults are on the border of WV and Kentucky.
Curiously, where the Hatfield and McCoy fueds took place.

 

[benjohnson]

This has made me thankful that God has protected me from snakebites for the past 38 years by giving me a reasonable trepidation and respect for poisonous snakes. Also, bears, crocodiles, and axe welding clowns.

I think the only way to blame this on Sola Scritura would be to carefully check his bible for printing errors - perhaps a negligent publisher swapped out Ezra with Ophiology.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Every idea is spread through indoctrination of children. We just call it education when we agree with the content of the indoctrination. It does seem hard to imagine how this practice survives. But adults would have started it and originally spread it. Even if today it survives due to children being raised up in it at one time it had to rely on adult converts.

The mountains are full of natives who are very strong in their faith. This is often a good thing but not always. Compared with what is normal with those lacking any belief I’m not so sure the snake handlers are the craziest of folks in our society.

Oh I fully agree with you, I have been throughout the USA. Yes there are pockets here and there which are somewhat affected by time and culture. No doubt.

The craziest? That I wouldn’t touch, crazy to handle Rattle Snakes and Copperheads is an affirmative though.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Jim Dandy’s post was removed? Is this basically not personal interpretation though? They are signs of the Holy Spirit, but common sense would tell you that you aren’t meant to tempt God. Afterall, based on that interpretation he should be drinking poison as well.

You said it my friend

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Of course, Catholics will tell you that Christ has established his church (the Catholic Church with the Pope as its visible head on earth) to teach sound doctrine. It has the authority to determine what is and is not true Christian teaching.

Why would we not say as you post? Scriptures supports Christ creating a physical Church with Peter at its head and giving all the power and authority of heaven to him and the other Apostles who were Bishops with him?

 

[Reuben_J]

news.yahoo.com/serpent-handling-west-virginia-pastor-dies-snake-bite-173406645–abc-news-topstories.html

The perils of Sola Scriptura and private interpretation of Scripture.

It looks to me like more of foolishness. Jesus only had contempt for such people, “… A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it …” Mt12:38. All the same, poor man.

The promise of Mk 16:17-18 is certainly not about people looking for signs. It is about the power of the word and the protection given to those who proclaim it. In other word, it should be in the category of miracles. Not that it is given just because we are asking for it but because to demonstrate the truth of the word.

Whether it is given or not, it is God’s prerogative according to the situation and the right condition, maybe. Along the centuries probably many such miracles happened either being recorded or from personal testimonies. Ultimately, Christian witnesses should be courageous in proclaiming the word because God would be with them to protect them. Again, we cannot demand how that protection will be.

As the word of God is everlasting, Mk 16:17-18 should be still active even today and to be applied to any Christian as the case maybe. It is not finished in the first or second century with the apostles as similarly, the commission of John 20:21-23 do apply until today.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

A question for believers: have you considered that this poor man was genuine in his belief, as genuine as you are in yours, and that his experience of belief was just like yours, in what you believe, and that your belief - in scripture, in life everlasting, in hell, in creation - may be just as unsoundly based? Or does the difference in what is believed in mean that such manifest failures of belief have no impact on you?

No different to your belief God doesn’t exist.

What are you going to do on the day you die, and you find yourself fronting up to something that never even crossed your mind, with the additional realisation that it’s too late to change your mind?

If your own belief is unsoundly based, you’re going to be in far worse trouble.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

You must be joking!

I don’t think there’s a reason to assume that it’s a joke. Sola Scriptura has often caused people to do horrible things. I’m not suggesting that those who do not adhere to such a heresy are incapable of doing awful things, rather that those who take every single word of the Bible as literal translation are missing more than half of Christ’s account and misrepresenting His teaching methods. And because they are so lost in their translation (which is further misleading given the cherry picked and altered kjv most subscribe too) they are willing to do downright insane things like this late pastor did. I just pray that this tragedy open some doors in the minds of all those in his congregation that maybe they are in the wrong church and that they might start seeking Truth. He was mislead his entire life and was leading others astray (we can only pray it was through ignorance and not malicious intent). Let us pray for the repose of his soul, the soul of his father and pray for the conversion of all those in that cultish mindset to find Christ and learn of Him in Christ’s proper context as revealed through His Holy protected Church, that they might unite with us and help build a better tomorrow.

 

[JustaServant]

Isn’t this more of an example of taking charismatic/ Pentecostal theology to its logical conclusion?
If tongues and faith healing are still signs of the Spirit. why don’t we see Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland handle snakes and drink poison?

 

[rebeccajohns]

That is a very sad story, but I also believe this is taking religion to the extreme. Anything in excess is not healthy. I consider myself a good Catholic, but I do not go around like a crazy fanatic. When you overly obsess over something, it takes you away from what really matters when it comes to God. I know he was a pastor, but I think he took his beliefs to the extreme not good. Just saying. I wouldn’t temp or play w/ God.

 

[rfournier103]

Matthew 4:7 Jesus answered him, “Again it is written, ‘you shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

Methinks tests such as snake handling may be a bad idea, given God’s dislike of ‘tests’ and such… :tsktsk:

I also think this thread is going to get ALOT of traction here at CAF.

 

[Publisher]

My dad grew up in the south. He attended a snake handling church by “mistake” once. His aunt invited him to go with her to play his guitar and sing…he’s 85 now…so this was when he was barely out of his teens…he said things went quite well. Shouting…singing…hand clapping…tongue speaking…good sermon…then it “went to hell” when after the sermon the “elders” brought out burlap bags and dumped out some snakes on the stage…rattlesnakes…cotton mouths…he was on the stage and dove off…he left his guitar…he and his aunt left and never returned except once during the week to pick up his guitar…he said he had no idea until the snakes came out the burlap bags.

 

[tarboy]

Odd, I just watched an episode of ‘The Glades’ on Hulu, where a pentecostal preacher is bitten by snakes and dies (murder)

news.yahoo.com/serpent-handling-west-virginia-pastor-dies-snake-bite-173406645–abc-news-topstories.html

The perils of Sola Scriptura and private interpretation of Scripture.

How does believing in the gifts of the holy spirit lead to snake handling?

Isn’t this more of an example of taking charismatic/ Pentecostal theology to its logical conclusion?
If tongues and faith healing are still signs of the Spirit. why don’t we see Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland handle snakes and drink poison?

 

[Koineman]

A question for believers: have you considered that this poor man was genuine in his belief, as genuine as you are in yours,

Genuineness is only one side of the coin. The other side is the object of one’s belief. This man was probably genuine, but he was genuinely wrong because he followed a misinterpretation of Scripture. The snake-handlers, unless I’m mistaken, take the passage at the end of Mark out of context. Other scriptures teach that we are not to tempt the Lord our God. Apparently they overlook those texts.

and that his experience of belief was just like yours,

Based on what I wrote above, I’d say no.

in what you believe, and that your belief - in scripture, in life everlasting, in hell, in creation - may be just as unsoundly based?

Again, based on the above explanation, no.

Or does the difference in what is believed in mean that such manifest failures of belief have no impact on you?

I’m not sure what you’re asking here.

 

[tarboy]

That is a very sad story, but I also believe this is taking religion to the extreme. Anything in excess is not healthy. I consider myself a good Catholic, but I do not go around like a crazy fanatic. When you overly obsess over something, it takes you away from what really matters when it comes to God. I know he was a pastor, but I think he took his beliefs to the extreme not good. Just saying. I wouldn’t temp or play w/ God.

I think in general snake handling is an inane adrenaline rush, and they do it for the rush (better that they picked up drinking)

However, this guy was just plain mentally ill, with a death wish, to repeat the ‘sins of his father’
“Anybody can do it that believes it,” Wolford said. “Jesus said, ‘These signs shall follow them which believe.’ This is a sign to show people that God has the power.” Wolford said watched his own father die at the age of 39 after a rattlesnake bit him during a similar service.

 

[sedonaman]

People in serpent handling churches will occasionally consume poison substances, such as strychnine.

It’s part of the same Biblical verse. Until reading your post, I hadn’t heard of any poison drinkers.

 

[JustaServant]

How does believing in the gifts of the holy spirit lead to snake handling?

Follow the logic.

Mark 16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And** these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover**.

SH cults are Pentecostal and believe in the gifts of tongues and faith healing. They see the verse in Mark not as singley prophetic, fulfilled in a time and place (the book of Acts), they believe these gifts are still in use today.
SHs simply take that belief to its logical conclusion. They don’t pick and choose when it comes to the gifts referred to in Mark 16.
I would not say a belief in Sola Scriptura leads one to this, but Pentecostol theology certainly appears to.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Salvation on Sand Mountain is a compelling read about these churches and their followers. While I obviously question their theology, there’s something astonishing about a group of people who are willing to handle rattlesnakes or drink strychnine for their faith.

Luna