snowblanket theology

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tmn1919

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I do not understand Protestant snowblanket theology.
The premise is that snow (Christ) covers all sin.
What do you mean, you dont sin anymore?
  1. Junk is still underneath the snow
  2. Fresh dirt still can cover fresh snow
  3. You cant pick and choose what dirt to cover
  4. Its all yellow snow 🙂
    Todd
 
I was raised protestant (Baptist) and just became Catholic five years ago. The teaching was that in the Old Testament the lamb covered the sins but in the New Testament the lamb (Jesus) removed the sins and gave you His (Jesus) righteousness. Your sins would be washed away and you would be as white as snow–taken from the Bible verse, “Though your sins should be as scarlet, they will be as white as snow.” Isaiah 1:18 New American Standard Version .
 
Luther actually says dung I think. We’re dung and grace is like a blanket of snow that covers us, but underneath, we’re still dung.

This is why they don’t get Mary.

That being said his ideas did develop. I would summarise his doctrine on grace as follows: We are not to come before God trusting in our own achievements (that would be to commit the sin of pride), but as sinners in need of His mercy. We are to rejoice in the divine mercy Christ has won for us, and in the gift of faith by which God has made us welcome His mercy. In the strength of knowing we are accepted by God despite our unworthiness, we can be moved by the Holy Spirit to produce good works. The basic reality is that we are justified by faith as a free gift because of Christ: that is, we are welcomed by god, who “clothes us with the merits of Christ” so that we can be acceotable despite our corruption; and the effect of being welcomed is that, by faith, we possess Christ and can grow in holiness—never, however, losing that basic attitude of welcoming God’s mercy rather than presenting Him with our own merits. Each of us is therefore simul justus et peccator, at the same time just person and a sinner—a just person welcomed by god, a sinner because labouring under concupiscence and inadequacy.
 
This is really a metaphor or mental image more than a theology. But the idea is that we are damaged in the fall, and through our own sin, and there is no health in us. Christ covers this for us, even when we continue to sin.

It’s actually not that different from Catholic theology.

You could also think about it as a debt kind of metaphor. We are bankrupt, and cannot pay what is owed, and have no way to raise any real cash. And our balance is continually getting more into the negatives. But Christ pays the fine for us, up to an infinite debt. Not by giving us a way to pay it, and not necessarily by stopping us from accruing more debt (though to some extent that happens) but by directly paying the debt for us.
 
Luther’s illustration is a good description of justification from a Protestant perspective, but its not the be all end all. Its not an illustration of sanctification. In Luther’s illustration, we remain dung, Christ covers us with snow when we are justified. However, that does not exclude the idea of grace transforming us and we grow in grace. John Wesley, influenced by Catholic and Orthodox thought, believed we could be changed by the power of the Holy Spirit, to no longer be dung underneath.

Too often, Christians use Romans 7 as the norm for Christian life, but if they go one chapter over, they see Paul talking about being transformed by grace in Romans 8.
 
JohnnyReb said:
Luther’s illustration is a good description of justification from a Protestant perspective, but its not the be all end all. Its not an illustration of sanctification. In Luther’s illustration, we remain dung, Christ covers us with snow when we are justified. However, that does not exclude the idea of grace transforming us and we grow in grace. John Wesley, influenced by Catholic and Orthodox thought, believed we could be changed by the power of the Holy Spirit, to no longer be dung underneath.

Too often, Christians use Romans 7 as the norm for Christian life, but if they go one chapter over, they see Paul talking about being transformed by grace in Romans 8.
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Exactly (well put!) Chapter 7 of Trent’s Decree on Justification addresses Luther’s errors. It lists the causes of justification and mentions some of the four causes St. Thomas Aquinas recognises in his Aristotelean scheme, they are material, formal (with which one associates the exemplar), efficient (covering agent and instruments) and final.
 
FightingFat said:
Luther actually says dung I think. We’re dung and grace is like a blanket of snow that covers us, but underneath, we’re still dung.
Click to expand...
Luther never used that metaphor. It is wrongly attributed to him.

Granted, many Protestants have adopted the analogy, but it doesn’t reflect the biblical and Lutheran understanding of the doctrine of justification.
That being said his ideas did develop. I would summarise his doctrine on grace as follows: We are not to come before God trusting in our own achievements (that would be to commit the sin of pride), but as sinners in need of His mercy. We are to rejoice in the divine mercy Christ has won for us, and in the gift of faith by which God has made us welcome His mercy. In the strength of knowing we are accepted by God despite our unworthiness, we can be moved by the Holy Spirit to produce good works. The basic reality is that we are justified by faith as a free gift because of Christ: that is, we are welcomed by God, who “clothes us with the merits of Christ” so that we can be acceptable despite our corruption; and the effect of being welcomed is that, by faith, we possess Christ and can grow in holiness—never, however, losing that basic attitude of welcoming God’s mercy rather than presenting Him with our own merits. Each of us is therefore simul justus et peccator, at the same time just person and a sinner—a just person welcomed by God, a sinner because laboring under concupiscence and inadequacy.
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This would be a very accurate summation.
 
Augsburg1530 said:
Luther never used that metaphor. It is wrongly attributed to him.
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“Therefore let us embrace Christ, who was delivered for us, and His righteousness; but let us regard our righteousness as dung, so that we, having died to sins, may live to God alone” [LW 30:294].

“I said before that our righteousness is dung in the sight of God. Now if God chooses to adorn dung, he can do so. It does not hurt the sun, because it sends its rays into the sewer” —This is Martin Luther’s own explanation! [LW 34: 184].
 
FightingFat said:
“Therefore let us embrace Christ, who was delivered for us, and His righteousness; but let us regard our righteousness as dung, so that we, having died to sins, may live to God alone” [LW 30:294].

“I said before that our righteousness is dung in the sight of God. Now if God chooses to adorn dung, he can do so. It does not hurt the sun, because it sends its rays into the sewer” —This is Martin Luther’s own explanation! [LW 34: 184].
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What I am referring to is the “snow covered dung heap” analogy of justification. Not that Luther never used the word!
 
Augsburg1530 said:
What I am referring to is the “snow covered dung heap” analogy of justification. Not that Luther never used the word!
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Oh you’ve sent me scurrying back off to my lecture notes now! I’m sure I have a note of where he said it somewhere!!
😃
 
=FightingFat;7470422]Luther actually says dung I think. We’re dung and grace is like a blanket of snow that covers us, but underneath, we’re still dung.
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This is why they don’t get Mary.
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Can you explain further what we don’t get about the Blessed Virgin, and how it relates to our understanding of justification anf sanctification.
That being said his ideas did develop. I would summarise his doctrine on grace as follows: We are not to come before God trusting in our own achievements (that would be to commit the sin of pride), but as sinners in need of His mercy. We are to rejoice in the divine mercy Christ has won for us, and in the gift of faith by which God has made us welcome His mercy. In the strength of knowing we are accepted by God despite our unworthiness, we can be moved by the Holy Spirit to produce good works. The basic reality is that we are justified by faith as a free gift because of Christ: that is, we are welcomed by god, who “clothes us with the merits of Christ” so that we can be acceotable despite our corruption; and the effect of being welcomed is that, by faith, we possess Christ and can grow in holiness—never, however, losing that basic attitude of welcoming God’s mercy rather than presenting Him with our own merits. Each of us is therefore simul justus et peccator, at the same time just person and a sinner—a just person welcomed by god, a sinner because labouring under concupiscence and inadequacy.
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BTW, pretty good! 👍

Jon
 
I am more interested in discussing the flawed logic of this theology.
  1. You can not pick and choose which sins to commit (Calvinism ?)
  2. Sure Christ will cover your sins at death, but in the mean time Reconciliation is needed more than just one “Born again experience”
  3. If dung is what is at the base and dung is what is on top there is no blanket of snow really is there - until death by the Mercy of Jesus
    Todd
 
=tmn1919;7471925]I am more interested in discussing the flawed logic of this theology.
  1. You can not pick and choose which sins to commit (Calvinism ?)
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Agreed, though I don’t know if Calvinism actually teaches one can.
  1. Sure Christ will cover your sins at death, but in the mean time Reconciliation is needed more than just one “Born again experience”
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Agreed, growth in grace requires receiving the sacraments, including confession/Absolution
  1. If dung is what is at the base and dung is what is on top there is no blanket of snow really is there - until death by the Mercy of Jesus
Click to expand...
Well, it seems to me that the regenerate who have received the Holy Spirit have the mercy of Christ. At once saint and sinner.

Jon
 
tmn1919 said:
I do not understand Protestant snowblanket theology.
The premise is that snow (Christ) covers all sin.
What do you mean, you dont sin anymore?
  1. Junk is still underneath the snow
  2. Fresh dirt still can cover fresh snow
  3. You cant pick and choose what dirt to cover
  4. Its all yellow snow 🙂
    Todd
Click to expand...
Well it does defy logic.
 
A lot of things are wrongly-attributed to Luther, mythology and hypotheticals built around him or misinterpretations. For example, I frequently hear Catholics say things like, “I heard Luther regretted the Reformation and reverted to Catholicism on his death bed!” or “Luther told Melanchthon to ‘sin boldly’ so obviously he was a libertine who encouraged sin and debauchery!” and many others…🤷

Luther had a high regard for sanctification and for the power of the sacraments to affect change in one’s life. I do appreciate that.
Augsburg1530 said:
Luther never used that metaphor. It is wrongly attributed to him.

Granted, many Protestants have adopted the analogy, but it doesn’t reflect the biblical and Lutheran understanding of the doctrine of justification.

This would be a very accurate summation.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for the many private emails wanting more logic.
Thank you for the few emails (lets say) using less logic.
  1. The only thing that will burn all snow and dung is Christ (like a microwave set on high for eternity)
  2. What starts the microwave? Death! and only if all the pieces are working correctly (being Catholic)
  3. Now if all the pieces are not working correctly (Protestantism) the whole house will burn possibly the entire home (loved ones and all) what a terrible mistake
  4. just relax people - say your Hail Mary (which is like the Fire Department)
  5. pray to Blessed Jerzy Popieluszko - we all need Mercy (who is worthy of Grace anyway)
 
tmn1919 said:
I am more interested in discussing the flawed logic of this theology.
  1. You can not pick and choose which sins to commit (Calvinism ?)
  2. Sure Christ will cover your sins at death, but in the mean time Reconciliation is needed more than just one “Born again experience”
  3. If dung is what is at the base and dung is what is on top there is no blanket of snow really is there - until death by the Mercy of Jesus
    Todd
Click to expand...
If you want to do that, you need to lay out just what that theology is saying. A metaphor is not specific enough to use that way.
 
JonNC said:
Can you explain further what we don’t get about the Blessed Virgin, and how it relates to our understanding of justification anf sanctification.
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The perfection of the human person, in the words of William Wordsworth, Mary is “Our tainted nature’s solitary boast”, grace transformed her into the Immaculate Conception. This is at odds with any theology that considers fallen mankind ontologically broken.
 
FightingFat said:
The perfection of the human person, in the words of William Wordsworth, Mary is “Our tainted nature’s solitary boast”, grace transformed her into the Immaculate Conception. This is at odds with any theology that considers fallen mankind ontologically broken.
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Is it at odds because there is a perception that we (speaking of Lutherans here), that grace does not transform us?

Jon
 
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