So a Jehovah Witness knocks at my door....

[ricofall]

Since I bought my house about 6 years ago, I have had a few visits from JW’s. Maybe about 4 or five times if that. About 2 weeks ago, some came by and I answered the door. I politely thanked them for coming by and told them I was a Catholic. They dropped off some watch tower stuff and left.

After that day, I was wondering if I could engage them on a discussion of faith. I kind of felt like I let my faith down for not trying. I read up on some literature and figured that in a year or so I would be ready.

Well today was that time. They came to my door again. It was another JW asking if I was concern about all of the natural disasters and suffering in the world.

My brain went into action.

I would like to say that I was as polite as I can be and I was respectful to the JW.

I asked him he was talking about the end times, and he said ‘Yes’
Then I told him that it states in the bible that no man should know the time of the end. He agreed with me that point. Which led to my next statement that their founder predicted the end time. He denied it, but his partner did acknowledged it and told him I as right. He told me that we would look into it and would get back to me. I accepted his request that he could come back with the answer. Then I asked him one more question. I asked him who put the bible together. At first he said that the spirit of Jehovah inspired it. Then I stated stated “yes, but who put the books together as the bible as you know it?” He said he will get back to me. Then he left.

I felt excited and even stronger in my faith. I am not saying that there was a winner or loser, but I was able to stand my ground and that made my day.

Anyone else have ideas for our next encounter?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Here’s one.

[BIBLEDRB]Revelation 1:7-9[/BIBLEDRB]
Ask them who “is coming” (they’ll say Jehovah God), who is “the Almighty” (same), and when He Who “is coming” was pierced.

 

[adf417]

Since I bought my house about 6 years ago, I have had a few visits from JW’s. Maybe about 4 or five times if that. About 2 weeks ago, some came by and I answered the door. I politely thanked them for coming by and told them I was a Catholic. They dropped off some watch tower stuff and left…

Anyone else have ideas for our next encounter?

I have more that you will probably want to know as most of my family members are JW. At the risk of bombarding you with too much at one time the 2 subject I like to talk about is 1) God’s Name, which they will love to talk about also, and 2) Worship.

Name of God
JWs use the original question in this thread “Why do you not call God by his real name” to get the interest of “non-believers” working in their favor. They will usually follow up with something like “It says all throughout the bible we are to call upon the name of YHWH” or “…and YHWH is my name” even in a context where a personal name could never mean anything. As you know this is in fact all through the bible. Then they will try to go as far back as possible to find the BEST translation of this YHWH (which is called the Tetragrammaton) to get to Yehovah (or Jehovah in English) see
lectio.unibe.ch/05_2/troyer_names_of_god.htm. The problems with this thought process begins with the literal translation. As Christians know “in the name of God” (or whatever name you may call God) means much more than a personal name. Moses had to ask God for his name. Until then, God was fine with “God”, “YHH”, “YA”, Elohim”… as long as it was He we worshiped. We take “ in the name of God, YHWY…” to mean “in the name of all goodness” or” in the name of all righteousness” and therefore when the NT comes along and now Jesus (God) is referred to as kyrios (lord) and we make the Trinitarian connection – hence where in the Hebrew (OT) writings you will see the translation of YHWH to Lord. This change to a JW is blaspheme. This to a JW is blasphemy as they do not believe in the Trinity.

Kyrios (lord) shows up 748 times in the NT. Of this total, I have looked @ 100 entries to date. Of this, when referring to God the NWT (New World Translation) translates kyrios as God or Jehovah 100% of the time. When referring to Jesus the NWT translates the same word (kyrios) as lord. This is even more interesting when you look at it in context - see Rom 10:9-13 among others.

and #2…

 

[adf417]

…#2

Worship
We all agree there is only one God and He alone we are to worship and/or adore. We all agree all throughout the OT, pagans wrongfully worshiped idols and God condemned them for it. The JWs view all man-made objects as pagan if you show any reverence, honor or respect to them. Protestants do this to some degree also as both of them seem to think Catholics “worship Mary”. For the same reason Catholics are accused of worshipping Mary we are also accused of worshipping the cross, the pope and the flag to mention a few. If we consider what the pagans did back in the OT and consider the gestures we apply to these figures in modern day, it could be understood how someone could misinterpret our intent – someone without an open mind to the truth.

As we know in the OT God had Moses and Aaron build a very ornate meeting tent with much detail to objects, beauty & grandeur. He also had Moses put a serpent on a pole so that when the people looked at it they were healed (Num. 21:8). All of these things were used in true worship to God because God, and God alone, knew their hearts. It was not about the “thing” it was about their intent, their heart.

Is 46:6 Some pour out gold from their bags and weigh out silver on the scales; they hire a goldsmith to make it into a god, and they bow down and worship it. (NIV) Or, if you have the Apocrypha, Wis. 14:8 but the handmade idol is accursed, and its maker as well; he for having produced it, and it, because though corruptible, it was termed a god. When you consider the complete context of the bible on this subject and the fact that God alone knows your heart, you have to conclude that it does not matter what you do or don’t do physically as much as what is in your heart. Not to divide Protestants and JWs here but if JWs would be correct in their thinking then even Protestants are guilty of idol worship when they salute the flag, which I know they are not. This is one reason why JWs are not allowed to join the military. Their belief is a salute is a form of worship. If Protestants believe Catholics worship Mary, then by this argument they must worship the flag or the jewelry they wear.

But here is where the JWs argument of idol worship gets interesting. As I have said the JWs do not/will not believe Jesus is God in any sense. They do not believe in the Trinity. Their bible (NWT – New World Translation) has helped them in so many ways to confirm this notion. The Greek words for worship in the NT is “proskyneo” and “sebo”. Together they are used 70 times in the KJV. In the NWT when referring to God these words are translated as “worship” 100% of the time. The same words, when referring to Jesus translate to “obeisance” (honor) 100% of the time. Even are the passages where there is a double action reference like Mt 2:11 …they saw the young child with Mary its mother, and, falling down, they did obeisance to it [him]NWT. No other translation I looked at, nine in all, had this much consistent bias.

So if JWs believe that bowing, prostrating or kneeling down to someone or something is worshiping that person/object, then all of the references to Jesus should have been translated as “worship”. If they believe all the people did not actually worship Jesus then why should they have a problem with me saluting the flag, having a cross on my wall, or bowing toward the tabernacle?

The NWT had to make these, among many others, changes in their translation in order to completely remove the deity from Jesus which dates back to Arianism before the council of Nicaea 325AD. The NWT is less than 75 years old. Before the NWT the JWs used the KJV.

God bless!!!

 

[kathmandu]

There really is nothing to be afraid of. If you want to talk with them do that. But if you do not believe what they are teaching, just tell them so. They are respectful people. They are looking for those who may be interested in studying with them. If you let them know you are not, they will go away.

The secret is that they are more afraid of someone actually answering the door, so that they now have to start a conversation. I know this very well. I was a Jehovah’s Witness for seven years and knocked on many doors. They go out in groups for moral support. It was one of the hardest things I ever did in my life.

Sounds like you have a good start. Don’t feel obligated to take literature. You could try giving them some literature from your church. Bet they won’t accept it, though. And you will not convert them. JW’s are brainwashed and are a cult. Tough to break free from. They have bible study 3 days a week and go door to door at least once a week. Many of these folks are out knocking on doors every day. It is called pioneering. They have to put in so many hours per month. It is why they keep coming back if you talk with them. They can claim the time on monthly report. If you talk with them, you are considered a potential bible study. If you agree to a bible study from one of their books it will count a an hour for their personal report.

 

[adf417]

There really is nothing to be afraid of. If you want to talk with them do that. But if you do not believe what they are teaching, just tell them so. They are respectful people. They are looking for those who may be interested in studying with them. If you let them know you are not, they will go away.

The secret is that they are more afraid of someone actually answering the door, so that they now have to start a conversation. I know this very well. I was a Jehovah’s Witness for seven years and knocked on many doors. They go out in groups for moral support. It was one of the hardest things I ever did in my life.

Sounds like you have a good start. Don’t feel obligated to take literature. You could try giving them some literature from your church. Bet they won’t accept it, though. And you will not convert them. JW’s are brainwashed and are a cult. Tough to break free from. They have bible study 3 days a week and go door to door at least once a week. Many of these folks are out knocking on doors every day. It is called pioneering. They have to put in so many hours per month. It is why they keep coming back if you talk with them. They can claim the time on monthly report. If you talk with them, you are considered a potential bible study. If you agree to a bible study from one of their books it will count a an hour for their personal report.

Don’t think I’ve ever met a real live x-JW before, if you can consider this real live. I have said it before also that “you will never convert them” but it seem we are both wrong…look at you. Congratulations for having the courage.

 

[ricofall]

Thank you all for your comments.

Cat Herder, I appreciate your pointing that out.
adf417, thank you for all that information. I love reading about things like that.
Kathmandu, thanks for the encouragement. I was nervous though.

Thank you all and everyone else. I will bookmark this and add to my research. If anyone else want to add their 2 cents in. Please do.

 

[kathmandu]

Don’t think I’ve ever met a real live x-JW before, if you can consider this real live. I have said it before also that “you will never convert them” but it seem we are both wrong…look at you. Congratulations for having the courage.

It took many, many years. Many people are damaged by this organization. I am free from their influence now. If you are strong in your Catholic faith you have nothing to fear either.

 

[kathmandu]

Ricofall,
Feel free to PM me if you have any problems. I can advise.

 

[TimothyH]

Anyone else have ideas for our next encounter?

Yes, don’t answer the door. I won’t speak to them on their terms. I only speak to them on my terms.

They will be back, like the terminator, and they will bring the special teams, people who are specially trained to answer your questions with the very specific goal of getting you to doubt your faith.

Did you tell them you were Catholic? When I told the two lovely ladies that I was Catholic, they sent back a man to ask me a few questions and his stay was brief. He was just a scout, getting an idea of how informed I was and how willing I was to speak. Then this man came again, but brought with him an ex-Catholic specifically trained in Catholic doctrine and how to get Catholics to doubt what the Church teaches. The guy was good. We all like to think we are strong in our faith, and I think I am, but this guy shook me up, had me doubting. I had to go read John 6 to calm down.

I wouldn’t talk to them on thier terms, but yours. Invite them to coffee at the coffee shop and bring a friend who knows both Catholicism and JW’s faith cold. That’s what I would do. Not on their terms but yours. These guys are specially trained, and they are good.

-Tim-

 

[Speedypizza]

I used to have them come to my door, however they stay away from me now. I just started asking questions that they did not want to answer. I asked one of them to see their Bible and asked him who translated it. When they said it was “The Committee” I explained the importance of translating the Bible and how easy it was to make mistakes. I also explained how important it is to have the correct schooling before you try something like that. I then just asked very directly if I could have the names of the people on this “Committee” so I could make sure they had the correct background to do this properly. When they told me that the “Committee” was too humble to let their names be known. I explained that this is a huge problem because how do I know that the people who did this were not all high school dropouts? I then suggested that we use my Bible sense we can check the qualifications of the people who translated it.

They left very quickly after that and have never been back sense. I see them on the street, but they avoid my house.

Pax

 

[jbeck43]

But

There really is nothing to be afraid of. If you want to talk with them do that. But if you do not believe what they are teaching, just tell them so. They are respectful people. They are looking for those who may be interested in studying with them. If you let them know you are not, they will go away.

The secret is that they are more afraid of someone actually answering the door, so that they now have to start a conversation. I know this very well. I was a Jehovah’s Witness for seven years and knocked on many doors. They go out in groups for moral support. It was one of the hardest things I ever did in my life.

Sounds like you have a good start. Don’t feel obligated to take literature. You could try giving them some literature from your church. Bet they won’t accept it, though. And you will not convert them. JW’s are brainwashed and are a cult. Tough to break free from. They have bible study 3 days a week and go door to door at least once a week. Many of these folks are out knocking on doors every day. It is called pioneering. They have to put in so many hours per month. It is why they keep coming back if you talk with them. They can claim the time on monthly report. If you talk with them, you are considered a potential bible study. If you agree to a bible study from one of their books it will count a an hour for their personal report.

Just had a couple of JWs come to the door a couple of days ago. I wanted to make make an appointment to speak with them. But I wanted to ask you what it was that finally made you leave the Witnesses?

 

[thomasf]

I had some JW’s come to my door recently. They told me God had a name and asked me if I knew what it was, and if I wanted to know what it was. I told them “Nope, I’m good.” The dude looked at me as if he was completely baffled and I could tell he never heard that one before. I told them that I didn’t think it mattered, He knew who I meant when I was praying and talking to Him, and that was good enough for me. I thanked them and wished them a good day, and they sorta walked away confused.

 

[ricofall]

Did you tell them you were Catholic?
-Tim-

I did the first group, but the on second group I did not. However I always wear my crucifix so that may have given it away

 

[Izdaari]

I used to have them come to my door, however they stay away from me now. I just started asking questions that they did not want to answer. I asked one of them to see their Bible and asked him who translated it. When they said it was “The Committee” I explained the importance of translating the Bible and how easy it was to make mistakes. I also explained how important it is to have the correct schooling before you try something like that. I then just asked very directly if I could have the names of the people on this “Committee” so I could make sure they had the correct background to do this properly. When they told me that the “Committee” was too humble to let their names be known. I explained that this is a huge problem because how do I know that the people who did this were not all high school dropouts? I then suggested that we use my Bible sense we can check the qualifications of the people who translated it.

They left very quickly after that and have never been back sense. I see them on the street, but they avoid my house.

Pax

LOL! Excellent response!

 

[Izdaari]

It took many, many years. Many people are damaged by this organization. I am free from their influence now. If you are strong in your Catholic faith you have nothing to fear either.

Catholic will certainly work, but I would say if you are strong in your (orthodox) Christian faith of whatever church, you’ll be in good shape to stand up to this cult. Being prepared definitely helps.

 

[TimothyH]

I did the first group, but the on second group I did not. However I always wear my crucifix so that may have given it away

They will bring back the special teams, those trained specifically in Catholic doctrine, trained to get you to doubt. Be very careful.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

I had some JW’s come to my door recently. They told me God had a name and asked me if I knew what it was, and if I wanted to know what it was.

I already know God’s name. God’s name is Jesus.

-Tim-

 

[kathmandu]

But

Just had a couple of JWs come to the door a couple of days ago. I wanted to make make an appointment to speak with them. But I wanted to ask you what it was that finally made you leave the Witnesses?

It is a corrupt organization. I was having mental health problems. I was a mother of two young children with an alcoholic husband. The JW elders did not know how to deal with me . They do not advocate seeing psychologists. They like to pretend that all JW’s are happy, well adjusted people and the “truth” solves everyone’s problems.

So they told lies about me. They said I disassociating myself from their organization. They had no grounds to “disfellowship” me, so this was their course of action. This means I lost my place of worship, and all my friends and associates within the JW community. Black listed. Essentially x-communicated.

I went on to start a new life, went back to school, made new friends and associates. This happened in the mid-eighties. I am a strong person and was able to get on with my life, but many others who this happens to don’t fare so well.

This organization can tear families apart. People are not treated lovingly. They are mostly concerned about appearances, that people dress and behave properly. They call it being unworldly. This is very important to them.

I used to work at a university where the JW’s had their yearly conventions. I would have to walk by them on my way to my office. These people are the most joyless folks I can ever remember encountering. All dressed up on a hot summer day, unfriendly because they are not witnessing to you at the time, and all the while thinking they are making a good impression. It is a cult and most are afraid to leave, not free to leave. The elders did me a favor in the long run.

This is not a ecumenical religion. It is them against the world. The are not Christian. They do not believe in the Trinity. But their faith is in God’s kingdom, and we do have that much in common. In other areas, you just have to tell them that you don’t believe what they are saying. If you don’t accept it, there is no point of discussion. Their bible is a manipulated translation, event through they say they went back to original texts. If you are planning on discussing anything make sure you have your own bible in hand. I always keep one of theirs for comparison purposes along with King James, modern Protestant and Catholic versions.

But don’t be afraid of them. Just stand your ground. If you are strong in your faith you will have no problems. Just remember that some are ex-catholics and most have a hatred of the Roman Catholic Church. They call it Babylon the Great. They consider protestants a sub-set or Roman Catholicism. Any world religion is evil in their eyes.

 

[ricofall]

But

Just had a couple of JWs come to the door a couple of days ago. I wanted to make make an appointment to speak with them. But I wanted to ask you what it was that finally made you leave the Witnesses?

I did not say anything more than I stated. Since they could not answer me, they asked if they could get back to me.