So an Eastern bishop came to my parish

[Cobbfmly]

Reading through the previous posts, I realized my response was completely off, as the Bishops are mentioned are not “Nicholas”.

I did not become aware of the Eastern Rite churches until I was a 22 yr old newlywed (1990). We moved into our townhome in Anaheim, CA which was about two blocks from the Roman Catholic Church. About 4 blocks further down the same road was the Maronite Catholic Church. As I had not heard of a Catholic Church other than Roman I research if it was a “real” Catholic Church.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

I suspect it was Bishop Gerald N. Dino of the Eparchy of Van Nuys. He is a Byzantine Catholic Bishop appointed by Pope Benedict XVI on December 6, 2007. I suspect this as Bishop Todd Brown is the Bishop for the Diocese of Orange, California , making the “seat” of the Diocese and the “seat” of the Eparchy on about 50 miles apart.

The other possibility is Bishop Robert Joseph Shaheen of theEparchy of Our Lady of Lebanon of Los Angeles. He is Maronite Catholic Bishop appointed by Pope John Paul II on December 5, 2000.

The only problem with your guesses (aside from the fact that they are wrong) is that currently the Eparchy of Van Nuys is actually located in Phoenix and the Eparchy of Our Lady of Lebanon is being run from St. Louis. Both would be too far away for the bishop to commute.

Bishop Nicholas, although he lives in Detroit, is semi-retired and had the time available. He and Bishop Tod (note, one “D”) have worked on the same committee (ecumenism) and know each other very well.

Deacon Ed

 

[Peter_J]

What blew me away was when – after saying that an Orthodox bishop was confirming Roman Catholics – you added that your biggest complaint was that he “overtly stated that he disagreed with the practice of doing Confirmation separate from baptism.” You’re kind of getting the cart before the horse there, don’t you think?

I guess my “cart before the horse” metaphor wasn’t as helpful as I thought it would be. Instread, please picture a couple people talking after the mass:

Person A: That was a nice ceremony, but did you notice the bishop isn’t in communion with Rome?

Person B: Oh that? That’s no big deal. What I can’t believe is that he said he doesn’t believe in doing Confirmation separate from baptism!

 

[Cobbfmly]

The only problem with your guesses (aside from the fact that they are wrong) is that currently the Eparchy of Van Nuys is actually located in Phoenix and the Eparchy of Our Lady of Lebanon is being run from St. Louis. Both would be too far away for the bishop to commute.

Bishop Nicholas, although he lives in Detroit, is semi-retired and had the time available. He and Bishop Tod (note, one “D”) have worked on the same committee (ecumenism) and know each other very well.

Deacon Ed

Interesting. I missed that the Eparchy of Van Nuys had moved. It also explains why I could find links to the Eparchy of Our Lady of Lebanon of Los Angeles but the links did not work.

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

I guess my “cart before the horse” metaphor wasn’t as helpful as I thought it would be. Instread, please picture a couple people talking after the mass:

Person A: That was a nice ceremony, but did you notice the bishop isn’t in communion with Rome?

Person B: Oh that? That’s no big deal. What I can’t believe is that he said he doesn’t believe in doing Confirmation separate from baptism!

Oh, haha I see. A better way for me to have put it would have been “the only thing about his teachings that bugged me,” etc. I don’t know much about the differences between Orthodox and Catholic (I’ve only met one Orthodox Christian that I know of, whereas I live next to a mega-church. A lot of Protestants around here ), so I wasn’t sure who was in communion with what. What I knew for SURE that bugged me was that he seemed to be criticizing the tradition that he was busy administering to a bunch of youth.

But they’re confirmed now, so that’s what matters

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Oh, haha I see. A better way for me to have put it would have been “the only thing about his teachings that bugged me,” etc. I don’t know much about the differences between Orthodox and Catholic (I’ve only met one Orthodox Christian that I know of, whereas I live next to a mega-church. A lot of Protestants around here ), so I wasn’t sure who was in communion with what. What I knew for SURE that bugged me was that he seemed to be criticizing the tradition that he was busy administering to a bunch of youth.

But they’re confirmed now, so that’s what matters

Since I know Bishop Nicholas fairly well, I can assure you he was not criticizing but, rather, trying to explain the difference between the Latin tradition (note the little “t”) and the Eastern tradition of the sequence of the sacraments (or, in Eastern terms, the Mysteries).

Deacon Ed

 

[ziapueblo]

Just skimmed through this thread. Correct me if I’m wrong . . . the Catholic Church is made up of 23 Churches. 22 of them are Eastern Catholic Churches such as the Ethiopian Catholic Church, the Greek Byzantine Catholic Church and the Russian Byzantine Catholic Church and then of course the Roman Catholic Church is the Western Catholic Church. All 23 Churches, East and West (RCC) share the same liturgy, Sacraments, Doctrine, etc., and are in communion with the Holy See. Thanks,

 

[LakaYaRabb]

the Catholic Church is made up of 23 sui iuris Churches. 22 of the 23 sui iuris Churches are Eastern Catholic Churches such as the Ethiopian Catholic Church, the Greek Catholic Church and the Russian Byzantine Catholic Church and then of course the Roman Catholic Church is the Western Catholic Church. Some Churches share the same liturgy. However, there are five (or six depending on the person counting) different rites which the various churches use, each with its own liturgies, spirituality and theology. All Churches acknowledge the same essentials concerning the Holy Mysteries, Doctrine, etc., and share a Communion of love with each other. Thanks,

There, much better.

 

[rpp]

There, much better.

When making changes such as this, it is often helpful to hightlight the text you changed. You can do this by using bold type, italics or a different color.

For example:

the Catholic Church is made up of 23 sui iuris Churches. 22 of the 23 sui iuris Churches are Eastern Catholic Churches such as the Ethiopian Catholic Church, the Greek Catholic Church and the Russian Byzantine Catholic Church and then of course the Roman Catholic Church is the Western Catholic Church. Some Churches share the same liturgy. However, there are five (or six depending on the person counting) different rites which the various churches use, each with its own liturgies, spirituality and theology. All Churches acknowledge the same essentials concerning the Holy Mysteries, Doctrine, etc., and share a Communion of love with each other. Thanks,

 

[ziapueblo]

There, much better.

I’m Roman Catholic and thank you very much for the information. Tell me, what does sui iuris mean? You say that there are 5 or 6 different rites. I know one is the Byzantine rite. Can you tell me what the other 4 or 5 are? Also, this may be a silly question, I assume that a Western Catholic can receive that sacraments from the Eastern Catholic Churches and they would be valid and the other way around? Thanks a lot.

 

[Ignatius]

Hi everyone,

I’m a Roman Catholic, I had an interesting experience tonight. I went to Mass at a small parish I volunteer at, and it was a Confirmation Mass. My bishop, Todd Brown, apparently couldn’t make it, so he asked his friend, an Eastern Orthodox bishop, to say Mass and administer the sacrament of Confirmation.

It would have been a Byzantine Catholic, not Orthodox.

 

[Ignatius]

I’m Roman Catholic and thank you very much for the information. Tell me, what does sui iuris mean? You say that there are 5 or 6 different rites. I know one is the Byzantine rite. Can you tell me what the other 4 or 5 are? Also, this may be a silly question, I assume that a Western Catholic can receive that sacraments from the Eastern Catholic Churches and they would be valid and the other way around? Thanks a lot.

There are 22 distinct Eastern Catholic Sui Juris Churches. Here’s one article from the Vatican web site. For more, just google ‘Eastern Catholic Sui Juris’.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

I’m Roman Catholic and thank you very much for the information. Tell me, what does sui iuris mean? You say that there are 5 or 6 different rites. I know one is the Byzantine rite. Can you tell me what the other 4 or 5 are? Also, this may be a silly question, I assume that a Western Catholic can receive that sacraments from the Eastern Catholic Churches and they would be valid and the other way around? Thanks a lot.

The term sui iuris means “of its own right” and refers to the fact that these individual Churches are Churches “in their own right.”

The six rites are the Latin, Armenian, Byzantine, Chaldean, Coptic and Syriac Rites. Of these the Byzantine has the most Churches (14) and is also the most common in the United States. The Byzantine Churches found here are Ruthenian, Ukrainian, Melkite and Russian.

And, yes, a Catholic is a Catholic is a Catholic and thus can receive the sacraments/mysteries at any Catholic Church, Eastern or Western.

If I may plug my own book, you can find this and related information about the Eastern Catholic Churches in the Paulist Press book 101 Questions and Answers on Eastern Catholic Churches.

Deacon Ed

 

[rpp]

I’m Roman Catholic and thank you very much for the information. Tell me, what does sui iuris mean? You say that there are 5 or 6 different rites. I know one is the Byzantine rite. Can you tell me what the other 4 or 5 are? Also, this may be a silly question, I assume that a Western Catholic can receive that sacraments from the Eastern Catholic Churches and they would be valid and the other way around? Thanks a lot.

According to Rolltide’s fantastic post (#7), these are the rites or liturgical traditions.

1. 
   *]Latin Rite (2 forms, Ordinary form, missal of Pope Paul VI and Extraordinary Form, the missal of Pope John XXIII).
   *]Alexandrian
   *]Antiochian
   *]Armenian
   *]Chaldean
   *]Byzantine
   
   Within the Latin Rite, and probably the others as well, there variations, these include Dominican Rite. I have also heard of the Ambrosian Rite, and while I think that is part of the Latin Rite, I am not certain.

 

[LakaYaRabb]

I’m Roman Catholic and thank you very much for the information. Tell me, what does sui iuris mean? You say that there are 5 or 6 different rites. I know one is the Byzantine rite. Can you tell me what the other 4 or 5 are? Also, this may be a silly question, I assume that a Western Catholic can receive that sacraments from the Eastern Catholic Churches and they would be valid and the other way around? Thanks a lot.

The five Rites of the Catholic Communion are:

1. Latin
2. Byzantine (Constantinoplian)
3. Alexandrian
4. Antiochian
   -This more properly includes both Eastern and West Syriac traditions because ALL Syriac traditions legitimately trace thier origins to this See
   -Sometimes, the Chaldeans are referred to as a completely different Rite, but this only causes confusion
5. Armenian

Also, please see this wiki-entry. Pay special attention to the distinction of a “rite” and “Church”. Its a decent entry.

Any Catholic in good standing who is properly disposed may receive Holy Commuion (or Holy Repentence) in any Eastern Catholic Church. The reception of other Holy Mysteries would require certain permission (Holy Orders, Holy Crowning, etc.).

 

[LakaYaRabb]

For a indepth treatment, please see this thread by Irish Melkite:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=204252

 

[holdencaulfield]

If the Bishop was Eastern Orthodox then the Confirmation was:

-Valid
-Illicit

If the Bishop was Eastern Catholic then the Confirmation was:

-Valid
-Licit

 

[Jakub]

A ball of confusion…

Where is my brother Irish Melkite ? His expertise here is surely needed…

james

 

[Jakub]

I see my post has been deleted, therefore I see no reason to continue participating at CA…

adios

 

[Peter_J]

I see my post has been deleted, therefore I see no reason to continue participating at CA…

adios

I don’t claim to know why your post was deleted; but before you decide not to participate here anymore, why don’t we ask the mods why they deleted it? Perhaps there’s an explanation you haven’t considered.