So confused!

[archangel04]

Lol so I have been reading for hours the post, articles, and sites about TLM vs NM. It was only 4 years ago that I learned about the Eastern Churches. I remember when I attended a couple of masses at a local Eastern Catholic church, my mother thought I changed religion and had hard time understanding that they were in full communion with the Holy See.

I’ve come back to the faith now for over a year and have done more research on the TLM. I really like how it’s celebrated and I might attend one in 2 weeks. But as I’ve read and search I have come accross alot of anti-novus ordo from “traditional Catholics” and has really got me thinking twice about going to a TLM. I felt more like some of these people were very closed minded and that it was there way or the highway. I have yet to come accross some “Novus Ordo fanatic” to say that the old way is very wrong and to stay away, but then again alot of us who attend the new mass are ignorant of our Faith so maybe I am not looking hard enough. I was an “altar boy” for 10 years and those years where the greatest, but also most diffcult years of my life (got teased alot and even picked on by other students for it) and I always felt very close to Christ during the mass. So when I hear people say that the New Mass is invalid, it makes me wonder then what in the world was I feeling? Demonic spirits?

I do see some of the problems that occur in the new mass. I attend Spanish mass because of my family, but I always see hand holding during the Our Father, evangelical type music (sometimes clapping), lack of reverence to the precious host, and more. But I’ve also been to and served many New Masses where there was alot of reverence, great Organ played music, and more.

So my confusion is this, do traditionalist see the new mass as inferior to the old way? Aslo I’ve seen EF and OT (i think) being used on the site, what does it mean? Also would traditionalist see a problem with traditional mass being celebrated in a native language? I’ve also read about the SSPX, but I am going to stay away fromt that topic because it just adds more confusion to me lol. Thanks for any info

 

[Julian0404]

How do you find time to focus on the Eucharist with all the concerns for the peripheral? At the end of the day, if there is a valid priest, there is a valid sacrament, and there is Jesus.

 

[ProVobis]

Only speaking for myself, I don’t consider myself a traditionalist but I do prefer the EF.

I feel the introduction of the Novus Ordo in 1969, though not ordered by Vatican II, was nonetheless needed bigtime; there was a liturgical chaos following the council that was quelched and just in time, in my opinion. The Novus Ordo has served a valuable pastoral purpose all these years and today it complements the EF in a very good way, thanks to the Pope’s recent initiatives. I don’t see in what way the Catholic Church was served well by destruction of the communion rails, confessionals, high altars, statues, and by introduction of communion in the hand, more secular music, etc. but nevertheless we should take what we can get these days. Priests aren’t exactly a dime a dozen and if all they’re qualified is to say a Mass in German or Spanish, that’s better than nothing.

 

[archangel04]

How do you find time to focus on the Eucharist with all the concerns for the peripheral? At the end of the day, if there is a valid priest, there is a valid sacrament, and there is Jesus.

Good question, but this was more when I was younger and when I had recently came back. Now that I have even greater knowledge of the Eucharist I focus only on Him. In fact during the concecragtion I have my eyes closed at all times only listening to the words and seeing Him through the eyes of my soul.

 

[archangel04]

Only speaking for myself, I don’t consider myself a traditionalist but I do prefer the EF.
I don’t see in what way the Catholic Church was served well by destruction of the communion rails, confessionals, high altars, statues, and by introduction of communion in the hand, more secular music, etc. but nevertheless we should take what we can get these days. Priests aren’t exactly a dime a dozen and if all they’re qualified is to say a Mass in German or Spanish, that’s better than nothing.

I couldn’t agree more. It would be great if thats wall all brought back to the Church.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I don’t see in what way the Catholic Church was served well by destruction of the communion rails, confessionals, high altars, statues, and by introduction of communion in the hand, more secular music, etc. but nevertheless we should take what we can get these days. Priests aren’t exactly a dime a dozen and if all they’re qualified is to say a Mass in German or Spanish, that’s better than nothing.

Well, more often than not I’ve carried the Church in cardboard boxes to missions. I’ve had to set up and strike in classrooms, hotel rooms, dental labs, and all sorts of weird places.

Obviously, in these circumstances, only the bare minimum for the Divine Liturgy could be so transported.

 

[ProVobis]

Obviously, in these circumstances, only the bare minimum for the Divine Liturgy could be so transported.

One only has to attend one of those “communion” services to appreciate that. You could almost hear a collective “Please give us a Mass” cry from the people who attend those services. Communion just doesn’t seem to have any meaning outside Mass.

 

[Ohiomom]

I’ve come back to the faith now for over a year and have done more research on the TLM. I really like how it’s celebrated and I might attend one in 2 weeks. But as I’ve read and search I have come accross alot of anti-novus ordo from “traditional Catholics” and has really got me thinking twice about going to a TLM. I felt more like some of these people were very closed minded and that it was there way or the highway.
So my confusion is this, do traditionalist see the new mass as inferior to the old way? Aslo I’ve seen EF and OT (i think) being used on the site, what does it mean? Also would traditionalist see a problem with traditional mass being celebrated in a native language? I’ve also read about the SSPX, but I am going to stay away fromt that topic because it just adds more confusion to me lol. Thanks for any info

Just focus on learning about the EF and I hope you do get to attend some masses and can develop an appreciation for the TLM. There are zealots on both sides of the OF-EF continuum and I say follow the lead of the Holy Father- there is a place for both. I attend the EF on Sundays because there are no OF Sunday masses I have found in this area that don’t cause distraction to me over the music or liturgy. I attend daily mass in the OF as that is all that is offered. Even as you do research there are some great sites out there that promote the EF (and reverent OF, use of chant) without attitude.

 

[archangel04]

Just focus on learning about the EF and I hope you do get to attend some masses and can develop an appreciation for the TLM. There are zealots on both sides of the OF-EF continuum and I say follow the lead of the Holy Father- there is a place for both. I attend the EF on Sundays because there are no OF Sunday masses I have found in this area that don’t cause distraction to me over the music or liturgy. I attend daily mass in the OF as that is all that is offered. Even as you do research there are some great sites out there that promote the EF (and reverent OF, use of chant) without attitude.

Thank you so much for your response. I see alot of EF, and OF used, can you tell me what it stands for? Sorry for the ignorance. Thanks again.

 

[otjm]

Thank you so much for your response. I see alot of EF, and OF used, can you tell me what it stands for? Sorry for the ignorance. Thanks again.

When Benedict 16 came out with the document opening up the Mass as it was said prior to Vatican 2, he said that there was just one rite in the Latin (Roman) Church, but there were two forms of the Mass. One was the Ordinary Form; (OF) and the other was the Extraordinary Form (EF). Prior to that, the Mass format from before Vatican 2 was extremely limited in availability.

The OF is the Mass that is said almost universally, and will be the one you will almost always find in your local parish. The priest says Mass facing the congregation; the altar is between him and the congregation, the Mass is almost always said in the vernacular (English or Spanish, or occasionally Vietnamese), but can be said in Latin.

The EF is said in a small percentage of parishes, and may be said along with other Masses at that parish in the OF format. The priest is facing the "liturgical East " (from which Christ is to come) - also known as “having his back to the people” (he leads the people in the Mass, is at the head of the people, and they are all facing in the same direction), and the Mass is said in Latin. Some of the prayers are different. In the OF there are three readings from Scripture - Old Testament, Epistle, and Gospel along with a Psalm; in the EF there are two readings - the Epistle and the Gospel. In the OF there are three years of readings (A, B and C) and as a result there are more Old and New Testament readings than there are in the EF. There are other differences in the number of prayers, and the rubrics (the rules the priest follows at verious points of the Mass - e.g. how he holds the Eucharist, as an example) are somewhat different.

Hope that helps.

 

[Ohiomom]

Thank you so much for your response. I see alot of EF, and OF used, can you tell me what it stands for? Sorry for the ignorance. Thanks again.

Also, you will see some people refer to TLM-Traditional Latin Mass as an acronym for the EF-Extraordinary Form because that or Tridentine Mass is how most people referred to the pre-Vatican II mass before Pope Benedict opened up for wider use of the EF.

Hope you are not too confused.

Also, at many EF masses they will have a mass booklet available to borrow to help people follow the propers of the mass. If your first mass is a “low” mass (missa recitata), you will not hear much of what the priest is saying. That really threw me the first time I attended, I was , lol.

If your first mass is a missa cantata (sung or “high” mass) there will me many sung parts both for the priest and that the congregation and/or choir will sing. At mass we sometimes attend on Sunday, the congregation as well as the choir sing the the propers of the mass (Gloria, Creed) and alot of the responses, but in another we attend just a few people sing along with the choir and quietly.