So disheartened. Feel like leaving Church.

[hasikelee]

I am a traditional Catholic. I like the Latin Mass and the old spirituality of the Church, such as the Rosary. The people I have met mentioned Taize prayers (I haven’t a clue what this is) etc.
I cringe when I hear of african masses and ‘international’ Masses. Am I being uptight?

I feel so confused at the moment. I don’t know what I believe anymore.

Is it possible to be too traditional? I am loyal to the Pope and will do whatever he says but I just prefer the Latin Mass. I wish there was a FSSP parish near me.

By the way, this is one of the Priests who says the Latin Mass. There are a few. I think I may lack tact when I speak and that may be a problem. I will be the first to admit that I see things as black and white sometimes - there are no grey areas. Maybe I should be more accomodating to the people who disagree with contraception and homosexuality etc. I hate hypocracy though and I would leave the Church if I ever endorsed these behaviours. I would never try to make the Church change its beliefs to suit me - that is what irritates me about the liberals.

Sorry for rambling. I’ve got a lot on my mind. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.

Well, the main thing that’s causing confusion might be simply that you are dealing with two separate issues being intermingled.

One issue is that of culture. The other issue is that of Catholic teaching.

On Catholic teaching, following Christ’s church means accepting all of His teachings in the Church. So you are right to feel dismayed or surprised that other Catholics, even priests, do not profess the teachings of His church. God might also be using your zeal and love for His Church to be a good example for others. Sometimes all a person needs is a clear explanation to change their beliefs.

On cultural practices, however, you might need to just be more open minded. For example, you identify yourself as traditional and you mention the Latin Mass. But in the early days of the church, the Latin Mass didn’t exist. So, exactly how traditional are you?

In other parts of the world, people use different language, expect people to act differently (dance, clap) wear different clothes, etc.

In other words, you are living out a cultural practice of our Faith. And so long as you adhere to Christ’s teachings, you are to be commended for making Christ a part of your life through special practices.

I think the only way you could be too traditional would be if you chose tradition over Christ. For example, you mentioned SSPX. They are indeed traditional and they have many beautiful practices. Yet, they chose to disobey the Pope, and in that choice, they disobeyed Christ.

 

[Brenda_V]

First, I want to amend what I said about the Priest you were working with weekly for Confirmation - I totally misread what you said he said. Going on what you said in your op I will say that he was wrong in some of it but I still stand by what I said in the rest of my previous post - gentle mention of the Truth is what must be done, I am a 49 yo who was once where you were (minus the reverting, I was blessed in never leaving), life has taught me that I must be the Light of Christ but that does not mean I must beat people with the light! Accepting that others are sinners just like me although their sins may be different from mine means that they are at least on the same journey as I am, at least some of them, some are just “cultural Catholics”. These people are there only because that is all they have ever known but the fact that they are at Mass is a good sign, they may have their own revelation as you have and move from that “this is just the way it is done, and every Sacrament means a big party and gifts” to “the biggest gift is the Sacrament”.

Thanks for the replies, they really helped. I feel guilty for even writing this because the Priest is a really nice person.

Maybe I was in the wrong, I just don’t know. I thought that the Catholic Church was necessary for salvation; I believed that there was no salvation outside of the Church except when ignorance prevents people from knowing the truth. For example, people who have no idea what the Catholic Church is may be saved if they live a good life according to their conscience.

Is this correct?

Yes you are correct. The problem is many Protestants today are in true ignorance as unfortunately are many Catholics! Your nice Priest included (sorry, after I re-read your OP I saw something else than what my poor pre-menopausal memory saw). Be gentle with him though and perhaps you need to find a different Parish to be confirmed in or, use CAF for your answers and just let him help you get that most important Sacrament!

I am a traditional Catholic. I like the Latin Mass and the old spirituality of the Church, such as the Rosary. The people I have met mentioned Taize prayers (I haven’t a clue what this is) etc.

First, the Rosary is not “old Spirituality” it is a modern prayer as well as an “old one”. Taize is not bad but I never really figured out what that was other than it is not un-orthodox so don’t fear it but do some research on your own about it.

Is it wrong to think that the Catholic Church is superior to the Protestant churches? I thought the Catholic Church was the true church of God and that the Protestants were wrong for separating. I have always believed that the Protestant churches should convert and unite with the Pope and his Bishops. I was under the impression that ecumenism was meant for this. Was I wrong?

You are so right here. But it is the way we do the converting that will help. Each person we talk to needs a different approach, some need that “slap upside the head” kind of approach (kind of like St. Paul) and some just need a loving simple example with few words to work for them. Here in NM we have a “Bishop” of the Episcopalian Church who is converting, he is leaving the faith that he grew up in and coming home to the one with the fullness of the truth, it took the appointing of an openly gay person as a Bishop for him to really have his eyes opened.

(continued below)

Brenda V.

 

[Brenda_V]

T Maybe what I thought about the Church was wrong. I really believed that the Catholic Church was necessary for salvation. Now I’m not sure. The priest said that Christ works through all Christians and that they don’t necessarily have to become Catholic. This goes against everything that I thought. I’ve read Church documents in the past that have called Protestants heretics for leaving the Church.

Here the Priest is somewhat correct. You need to read up on what catholic means (notice the small “c”) Most Protestant Churches have some of the truth in them. All were heretical at the time of their formation, many today who belong to them do so because that is all they know, it is up to us as Catholics (notice the big “C”) to help them see the fullness of the Truth (see my note above about how that can happen.)

So, on this, anyone who is raised Catholic and has had good formation and then leaves the church is a Heretic, anyone who is born into a Protestant family and is raised as such is not. It is complicated and requires more than four years worth of study (at least for me it did) to fully understand this concept. There might be some good articles from “This Rock” magazine which you can access on the main page of this sight (catholic.com).

T I must be in the wrong if every Catholic I meet believes differently to me. For instance, I personally believe that receiving the Eucharist in the hand is disrespectful and I would never want to do it. Most Catholics think I am strange for this. I’m not condemning people for receiving in the hand, it’s just a personal preference of mine.

You actually answered your own question here. It is a personal preference. Since the Holy See (the Pope) has given us an indult to be able to receive in the hand then it is okay. Remember that every Catholic you meet is not necessarily fully informed either, your instance of birth control, well, here is a Catholic who agrees with you about it as do the majority on CAF. Communion in the hand is preferred by me until we have altar rails and kneeling to receive, I would rather put Jesus in my own mouth than risk Him falling to the floor (seen this one too many times from those receiving on the tongue because the EMHC or OMHC was shorter than the communicant and for some reason I am as tall or taller than many of these ministers - including our Priests!)

T Maybe I need to be more accepting of other religions. I was all for evangelisation and conversion, but maybe this is not the way to go. I don’t want to alienate myself from anyone in the Church and I think I may be a bit too conservative for my own good.

Don’t worry about how you feel, just learn some better methods of evangilisation . There are several good books about apologetics which is what you need. I believe Jimmy Akin wrote one that would be just what you need right now and of course I can’t remember the name of it.

(more continued below)
Brenda V.

 

[Brenda_V]

(last of the continuations, sorry everyone, just felt I needed to reply to Dempsey in totality of his post)

T I cringe when I hear of african masses and ‘international’ Masses. Am I being uptight?

Yep, you are being uptight . It is appropriate for different Cultures to use different worship methods so long as the Mass is not changed, here in the US “liturgical dance” is not to be done during a Mass, in Africa on the other hand it may be okay, I am not sure. What should be different is the music, not the Mass itself. I hope I didn’t confuse you more about this.

T I feel so confused at the moment. I don’t know what I believe anymore.

I fully understand how you are feeling right now. Pray about this confusion and see if you can find a good orthodox Priest, like the Priest who says the Latin Mass you attend!

T Is it possible to be too traditional? I am loyal to the Pope and will do whatever he says but I just prefer the Latin Mass. I wish there was a FSSP parish near me.{/quote}

Absolutely nothing wrong with this as long as you know that you still need to go to Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation even if all you have available to you is a very imperfect NO mass.
Dempsey1919;2813474:

By the way, this is one of the Priests who says the Latin Mass. There are a few. I think I may lack tact when I speak and that may be a problem. I will be the first to admit that I see things as black and white sometimes - there are no grey areas. Maybe I should be more accomodating to the people who disagree with contraception and homosexuality etc. I hate hypocracy though and I would leave the Church if I ever endorsed these behaviours. I would never try to make the Church change its beliefs to suit me - that is what irritates me about the liberals.

Sorry for rambling. I’ve got a lot on my mind. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.

Of course you see things in black and white, most people who revert do as do many converts. Maturity in your Faith will help you to see that there are some areas that should be black and white but we need to “see” the grey areas in order to understand those who are currently in them. Remember, everyone is in a different place in their spiritual journey. If someone seems to be a hypocrite, pray for them and then yourself that you may understand them better. Allow those who are in spiritual imperfection to teach you as well but again I suggest you seek a more orthodox Priest to help you in this journey.

Pray your Rosary Daily, pray for understanding. Do not change your views, just your way of dealing with them.

 

[SeanTom]

Dempsey, you stated: “I believed that there was no salvation outside of the Church except when ignorance prevents people from knowing the truth.” Is this correct?"

I hope this helps:

There is only one GUARANTEED way for Christians to enter God’s Kingdom., and that way is through our Lord, Jesus Christ.

There are other ways to attain Heaven for those who do not know Jesus for reasons not of their own doing.

1. There are those who live in isolated areas of our world who never heard of Jesus and have never seen or heard God’s Word as given to us in Scripture. If they live lives worthy of God’s acceptance, they will then come under the merciful judgment of Jesus and will be taken into Heaven, if God so Wills.
2. There are those who call themselves Atheists; but were born into an Atheist’s family and were never permitted to hear of Jesus or His Kingdom; nor were they ever introduced to God or Jesus in any other way. If they didn’t believe in God because they never knew who He was, then God would, in His mercy, judge these people accordingly. We can not second guess how God will handle this, but must leave it up to His compassion and mercy. If they knowingly turn their backs on God, then they are destined to Hell.
3. There are those who call themselves Agnostics. These Agnostics neither believe nor disbelieve in God, but sort of live on the rail of the fence. They believe in God only to the extent that they say “just in case there is one, I better not turn my back on Him”. But they never seek Him out nor do they read or listen to His Word. These Agnostics , unless they change their ways, probably will not see God’s Kingdom. There is an exception to this however. If these Agnostics lived a good life, following more or less the teachings of Jesus, even though they were not aware of doing so, God may, in His wisdom, allow them to enter His Kingdom. God will know what is in their hearts and why they opted to remain Agnostic. It could be they were raised in an Agnostic family and were not permitted to even discuss God or any other faith. I don’t know how God will handle this situation, but if they die while still children, I would like to think that the love of God for His special children would show His love and compassion towards them by accepting them into His Kingdom. Matthew 19:14: “Jesus said, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven’”
4. Then there are those who do evil acts and live a life of sin. Although they knew of God, they never attended church nor did they want anything to do with God‘s goodness. They, in effect, turn their backs on God and renounce His existence. These people surely are destined for Hell. With one exception:

If these evil people, before they die, have a change in heart and confess their sins to God in a way that shows sincerity., shows remorse and then repents for having sinned, then in that case I believe God, after determining the truthfulness and validity of their confessions, will forgive them and welcome them into His Kingdom. But here again, they must rely on the compassion and mercy of our Lord.

The above four examples speak for themselves and are ways for non-practicing Christians to enter God’s Kingdom. However, the people in these examples are subject to God’s compassion and mercy. BUT none of these four ways are guarantees that they will enter Heaven, they all depend on God’s mercy.

As for the Jewish people, I honestly don’t know how God will handle this, since they don’t believe that Jesus is the Savior for all people, and can’t even render an opinion. All I know is that God is Just, God is compassionate, God is love and God will judge all people wisely and then either accept or reject them from His Heavenly Kingdom. God knows what is in their hearts an will judge them accordingly.

HOWEVER, there is a way we can GUARANTEE our admittance to God’s Heavenly Kingdom, and this certainly is the way we should all strive to accomplish… In John 11:25: Jesus said…. ’I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.” John 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me” Jesus tells us that if we follow His teachings, we WILL see the Kingdom of God. That is His GUARANTEE to us.

The Catholic Catechism teaches “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

.

.

.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I have to wholeheartedly second everything Sharon says here.

I want to remind you that the Church is full of sinners and hypocrites, these are the people Jesus came here for and was crucified for. He even says so himself when he is chastised for
eating and associating with the biggest sinners of his times; the prostitutes and tax collectors! Remember that we all fall and unfortunately some of us don’t see that we have fallen.

University is not the place to find orthodoxy. You think you don’t have an orthodox Priest, I don’t think so, I think what you have is a wise man who was pointing out to you that even though some will use birth control that does not make them not Catholic, just sinners, sinners perhaps who need to have a conversion of heart about this issue but not by someone who is “new to this”, a gentle mention to some will be the seed that needs to be planted in them for them to stop. Look at the many threads here on CAF about contraception - ever so many have come to this later in life. I do think your Priest may not have handled the talk well but do give him a second and third chance!

Brenda V.

I’d have to disagree: I found Orthodoxy at the university, in the Encyclopedia Britannica.

But, yes, the university can be a soul destroying place.

I’m not Latin, and I share the Orthodox attitude about the Latin’s problems (brought on themselves), but I have to agree with the posters above 100%. Just because you come across clergy with goofy ideas, don’t dump the church (an Orthodox would approach the bishop if he had a serious objection, but I don’t know details on what the Latins would do) After all, Christ didn’t abandon scripture in the temptation in the desert, He just rejected Satan’s interpretation.

 

[DebChris]

Back in the mid-seventies, a while before I had my first experience of Church, I used to get into some really fantastic discussions with the Roman Catholic Fathers in the Navy and while working for the Hospitals. The thing I liked about them, was they were really open minded and never gave me the impression that they thought that being a Catholic was an exclusive club. In fact they readily agreed that Buddhists, and Moslem, and Jews all were ‘children of God’, (I am not sure about that now) and that they had not objections to people of any faith coming to the services. I guess the times have changed.

Personally, I think you will discover that belonging to any demonimation does not mean that you are a person of authentic faith. Your priest is right on target. A Christian does not become a Catholic, it is a Catholic who becomes a Christian, and that is not something that is determined by membership, but instead by birth into the family of GOD. Not everything is as it seems.

Love,
Pophead.

Good post that does not simply follow what everybody else is saying. It fits well with “We become better Catholics through practice,” posted by mph74. Our goal is closer union with Jesus Christ. This intimate union is a work of the Holy Spirit. God alone knows how closely any one of us is to that unity. The Church is comprised of sinners as well as saints. Saints do not become saints by running away when told what they may not want to hear.
The OP seemed to want all the answers immediately. That is not how our faith works. Sometimes we need to accept the questions themselves in order to embrace fully the mystery that is our faith.
The priest mentioned contraception as not being an “infallible teaching.” In Matrimony, we are called to be open to life. Nevertheless, there may be extentuating circumstances such as illness in which contraceptive methods may be deemed acceptable. Again, do not allow the opinion of one person be the determining factor when it comes to your personal faith.
Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church for insight into where the Church stands and how we are to best live our faith. As mpb74 writes, it is an ideal by which many of us fall short.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Maybe I was in the wrong, I just don’t know. I thought that the Catholic Church was necessary for salvation; I believed that there was no salvation outside of the Church except when ignorance prevents people from knowing the truth. For example, people who have no idea what the Catholic Church is may be saved if they live a good life according to their conscience.

As one who recently started RCIA, I also had a problem understanding the correct teaching of “outside the Church there is no salvation.” I got confused and became very disheartened myself. Then I read the Baltimore Catechism and that straightened everything up for me:

1. Q. Are all bound to belong to the Church?
   A. All are bound to belong to the Church, and he who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it, cannot be saved.

Anyone who knows the Catholic religion to be the true religion and will not embrace it cannot enter into Heaven. If one not a Catholic doubts whether the church to which he belongs is the true Church, he must settle his doubt, seek the true Church, and enter it; for if he continues to live in doubt, he becomes like the one who knows the true Church and is deterred by worldly considerations from entering it.

In like manner one who, doubting, fears to examine the religion he professes lest he should discover its falsity and be convinced of the truth of the Catholic faith, cannot be saved.

Suppose, however, that there is a non-Catholic who firmly believes that the church to which he belongs is the true Church, and who has never – even in the past – had the slightest doubt of that fact – what will become of him?

If he was validly baptized and never committed a mortal sin, he will be saved; because, believing himself a member of the true Church, he was doing all he could to serve God according to his knowledge and the dictates of his conscience. But if ever he committed a mortal sin, his salvation would be very much more difficult. A mortal sin once committed remains on the soul till it is forgiven. Now, how could his mortal sin be forgiven? Not in the Sacrament of Penance, for the Protestant does not go to confession; and if he does, his minister – not being a true priest – has no power to forgive sins. Does he know that without confession it requires an act of perfect contrition to blot out mortal sin, and can he easily make such an act? What we call contrition is often only imperfect contrition – that is, sorrow for our sins because we fear their punishment in Hell or dread the loss of Heaven. If a Catholic – with all the instruction he has received about how to make an act of perfect contrition and all the practice he has had in making such acts – might find it difficult to make an act of perfect contrition after having committed a mortal sin, how much difficulty will not a Protestant have in making an act of perfect contrition, who does not know about this requirement and who has not been taught to make continued acts of perfect contrition all his life. It is to be feared either he would not know of this necessary means of regaining God’s friendship, or he would be unable to elicit the necessary act of perfect contrition, and thus the mortal sin would remain upon his soul and he would die an enemy of God.

If, then, we found a Protestant who never committed a mortal sin after Baptism, and who never had the slightest doubt about the truth of his religion, that person would be saved; because, being baptized, he is a member of the Church, and being free from mortal sin he is a friend of God and could not in justice be condemned to Hell. Such a person would attend Mass and receive the Sacraments if he knew the Catholic Church to be the only true Church.

I am giving you an example, however, that is rarely found, except in the case of infants or very small children baptized in Protestant sects. All infants rightly baptized by anyone are really children of the Church, no matter what religion their parents may profess. Indeed, all persons who are baptized are children of the Church; but those among them who deny its teaching, reject its Sacraments, and refuse to submit to its lawful pastors, are rebellious children known as heretics.

I said I gave you an example that can scarcely be found, namely, of a person not a Catholic, who really never doubted the truth of his religion, and who, moreover, never committed during his whole life a mortal sin. There are so few such persons that we can practically say for all those who are not visibly members of the Catholic Church, believing its doctrines, receiving its Sacraments, and being governed by its visible head, our Holy Father, the Pope, salvation is an extremely difficult matter.

I do not speak here of pagans who have never heard of Our Lord or His holy religion, but of those outside the Church who claim to be good Christians without being members of the Catholic Church.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Continued:

This is the correct teaching. The Catholic Church is the ONE AND ONLY CHURCH ESTABLISHED BY JESUS. IT IS THE CHURCH OF CHRIST. This teaching hasnt changed and anyone who says anything to the contrary is teaching heresy. The priest you talked to was wrong. I was in the same boat as you. I am very traditional and conservative and left one of the most conservative denominations out there (Southern Baptist Convention). The fact that the Catholic Church was so penetrated by liberals and modernists really shunned me a way for a while. You just have to remember that there are many more like you. There are infallible doctrines in the Church and there are many out there who deny them. The Church itself doesnt deny them though, you just have to remember that. Popes of the past foresaw that there would be a time of great confussion in the Church. You are living in that time. You just have to remember that Jesus promised the Church would not err.

 

[MilesXpisti]

Back in the mid-seventies, a while before I had my first experience of Church, I used to get into some really fantastic discussions with the Roman Catholic Fathers in the Navy and while working for the Hospitals. The thing I liked about them, was they were really open minded and never gave me the impression that they thought that being a Catholic was an exclusive club. In fact they readily agreed that Buddhists, and Moslem, and Jews all were ‘children of God’, (I am not sure about that now) and that they had not objections to people of any faith coming to the services. I guess the times have changed.

Personally, I think you will discover that belonging to any demonimation does not mean that you are a person of authentic faith. Your priest is right on target. A Christian does not become a Catholic, it is a Catholic who becomes a Christian, and that is not something that is determined by membership, but instead by birth into the family of GOD. Not everything is as it seems.

Love,
Pophead.

Indifferentialism. Universalist drivel. There is but one authentic faith through time and across this world. The fullness of faith found only in the Roman Catholic Church. To believe otherwise is heresy.

 

[cecilia97]

Dempsey,

Sending you a hug, please don’t lose heart over a bad (or well-meaning but less tahn stellar) priest. There are toads in every area of life, it seems.

I had a similar experience this week. The priest I met with about my annulment case was pretty sad. You hate to say negative things about someone who’s given their life to Christ, but this guy seemed totally checked-out, uncaring, and clueless…and mistaken about some Church teachings too!

There ARE joyful, faithful Catholics left, I promise you! Don’t let the toads get to you. If you feel a call to rejoin your home in the Church, listen to the Holy Spirit. You could ignore that call and go with any other faith community, and will still find toads there, too.

 

[mpb74]

Dempsey

I don’t believe you have anything to feel guilty about. You would be remiss in not sharing your anxieties and doubts on a board with so many faithful here to hear your questions and help you come to the answers you must find.

Speaking strictly for myself, my own mind tends to be a dangerous neighborhood when I try to come to to terms with doubts and questions of a serious nature. I often find it wiser not to go there alone in such situations. I try to find those of a similar moral code to mine, and use them as a sounding board. They usually can project to me a view I cannot see from within myself, as my own self interest and self rightousness make my view subjective rather than objective. All truth’s are objective, and alone they are often hard to see clearly. I am also alway’s willing to be a sounding board in a spirit of reciprocity and community. I am much clearer about other’s doubts than my own. How typical.

I know the enemy is always whispering in my ear and trying to isolate me. He may also be whispering in your ear, trying to pry you away from the truth and toward a malaise leading to death and damnation.

I wouldn’t know a gay pride flag if I saw it,but I would want to check that it is not a banner for COURAGE, The Catholic group which helps those with same sex attractions live a chaste life. They deserve our support carrying their cross. If expressing your doubts here eases the burden of your cross, we are here to help you find the strength. Anything that helps us follow Christ is honorable, and not something to feel guilt over. Hang in, hang on, and overcome. I’m sure trying. Dan

 

[mpb74]

BTW, I found some wonderful free MP3 lectures by Peter Kreeft. A very strong, concise, clear, Catholic Professor of philosophy at Boston College. I found them enlightening and have listened to many repeatedly.

You may find the one “Ecumenism without compromise” answers some of your questions. He may even raise some more.

They are available, as I said, FREE: at

PeterKreeft.com

Then click on featured audio. Just a suggestion. Dan

 

[Steve_Sanborn]

I doubt you have to be told that discouragement is the foundation to giving up and all the rest.

You’re in with enemies of the faith… whether they consider themselves as such or not.

You mentioned the SSPX. I’ve been going to mass at a SSPX chapel for nearly 10 years. I was raised novus ordo and remained so for the first 26 years of my life. I think you should visit a local SSPX chapel if you can and talk with the priest there.

Set aside the accusations of schism, excommunication, heresy, jansenism, blah, blah, blah… and see if for yourself. Another thing you can do which I highly recommend is to go to one of their week long Ignatian retreats. While there you can find time to plumb the depths with any questions you may have… during the times that you visit with the retreat master or other priests.

Don’t give up, just get away from the poison… it’s bad for you even if you know it’s wrong.

Always happy to continue the conversation if you wish.

Steve Sanborn

 

[Unitas]

Thanks for the replies, they really helped. I feel guilty for even writing this because the Priest is a really nice person.

Error hurts most when we hear it from those close to us.

I thought that the Catholic Church was necessary for salvation; I believed that there was no salvation outside of the Church except when ignorance prevents people from knowing the truth. For example, people who have no idea what the Catholic Church is may be saved if they live a good life according to their conscience.

You are correct. The ignorant are held to the Natural Law, which is objective, not their consciences which they can manipulate.

I am a traditional Catholic. I like the Latin Mass and the old spirituality of the Church, such as the Rosary. The people I have met mentioned Taize prayers (I haven’t a clue what this is) etc.

Is it pronounced “Tie-zay”? I heard about this from Fr. Pacwa on Open Line, he describes it as an ecumenical prayer session.

Is it wrong to think that the Catholic Church is superior to the Protestant churches?

Is it wrong to believe the truth?

I thought the Catholic Church was the true church of God and that the Protestants were wrong for separating. I have always believed that the Protestant churches should convert and unite with the Pope and his Bishops. I was under the impression that ecumenism was meant for this.

Again, you are 100% correct. But there are those within the Church who wish to lessen the Church’s uniqueness and necessity to be more politically correct. Don’t let them get to you. They are in the wrong.

I really believed that the Catholic Church was necessary for salvation. Now I’m not sure. The priest said that Christ works through all Christians and that they don’t necessarily have to become Catholic. This goes against everything that I thought. I’ve read Church documents in the past that have called Protestants heretics for leaving the Church.

Again, you are correct. There is no salvation outside the Church. An exception is made for the invincibly ignorant. Who are still held to the standard of Natural Law; ignorance is not a free pass. Those who willfully separate from the Church are formal heretics. Those that were born outside of the Church are material heretics. Material heresy isn’t an act of will so ignorance can mitigate the culpability. But that doesn’t lessen the necessity of the Church in the role of salvation.

I must be in the wrong if every Catholic I meet believes differently to me. For instance, I personally believe that receiving the Eucharist in the hand is disrespectful and I would never want to do it. Most Catholics think I am strange for this. I’m not condemning people for receiving in the hand, it’s just a personal preference of mine.

You will find many that agree with you, even Mother Teresa.

Maybe I need to be more accepting of other religions. I was all for evangelisation and conversion, but maybe this is not the way to go. I don’t want to alienate myself from anyone in the Church and I think I may be a bit too conservative for my own good.

The truth is our duty. If that makes people dislike us, so be it. Christ never said it was going to be easy. It is God whom we need to obey and asnwer to, not others that try to embarass us.

I cringe when I hear of african masses and ‘international’ Masses. Am I being uptight?

Not at all. We should have a common liturgy with everyone of our rite. Everyone doing their own thing and adding in their own flavors isn’t very unifying.

Is it possible to be too traditional? I am loyal to the Pope and will do whatever he says but I just prefer the Latin Mass. I wish there was a FSSP parish near me.

You’re on the right track. Your faith has just been shaken by those who are lacking in their orthodoxy. Have hope in that hell will not prevail against His Church.

By the way, this is one of the Priests who says the Latin Mass. There are a few. I think I may lack tact when I speak and that may be a problem. I will be the first to admit that I see things as black and white sometimes - there are no grey areas. Maybe I should be more accomodating to the people who disagree with contraception and homosexuality etc.

There can be no compromise with immorality.

I hate hypocracy though and I would leave the Church if I ever endorsed these behaviours. I would never try to make the Church change its beliefs to suit me - that is what irritates me about the liberals.

And that is exactly what you have witnessed. They dissent with plain Church teaching. There’s no excuse for it. Kindly correct them and then pray that they’re converted to the truth. That’s really all you can do. The rest is up to them and God.

 

[snowfly]

I feel like leaving the Church…everyone seems so hypocritical…even the Priests. I don’t know what to do. The SSPX is looking more and more appealing. I’m feel very upset at the moment .

Satan would love you to leave, yes there is so much liberal garbage rammed down our throats, but at least you know better and thats good, stay and fight your corner.

We who are against liberal Priests/ Laity and their idiotic preaching know what you mean, but lets not give them a free reign by leaving, I’m certainly not as long as my heart stays beating and air in my lungs to stand up to their heretical preaching.

 

[the_phoenix]

Satan would love you to leave, yes there is so much liberal garbage rammed down our throats, but at least you know better and thats good, stay and fight your corner.

We who are against liberal Priests/ Laity and their idiotic preaching know what you mean, but lets not give them a free reign by leaving, I’m certainly not as long as my heart stays beating and air in my lungs to stand up to their heretical preaching.

I second Snowfly’s eloquent way of putting things.

~~ the phoenix

 

[palmas85]

Many years ago one of my Catechism instructors told us a story that I think needs re-telling now.

She said that towards the final days, the Church would be rocked with scandals, troubles and afflicitions. That lies and deceit would abound and the the Clergy in large part would abandon the true teachings of God and the Church. . Then, the Church in perfect imitation of Christ on the Cross, would be abandoned by all but a very few who would steadfastly cling to Her teachings.

If you look around it could reasonably be argued that such times exist now and have for a while. Apostasy grows and people accept false teachings in the name of not offending others and political correctness… So I feel that now is the time to re-double your efforts towards returning to the true Church and pray for the souls of those who have been misled and corrupted.

 

[thecoach]

“Again, you are correct. There is no salvation outside the Church.”

You are putting the vehicle ahead of the destination. Christ is necessary for salvation, and it is HE who comes first. I know you will bring up Benedict’s latest statement to this effect, but it contradicts earlier statements by other Popes. Besides, it is important to remember that the Church( group of followers, not necessarily the organization), was created to point to Christ, not replace HIm in importance.

 

[rien]

I came home to the Church about a month ago and I attend an indult Latin Mass.

I fully believe in everything that the Church teaches…but I feel like leaving the Church. I’m so disheartened. Here’s the story:

Like I said, I’m a recent revert and I have been meeting with my parish priest for the last two weeks because I want to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. I have spent about 4 years reading and learning about the faith; I wanted to make sure that I believe in EVERYTHING the Church teaches. I would never enter the Church and become a ‘cafeteria Catholic’. As a result of this study, I now have a pretty thorough understanding of doctrine and belief etc.

I was very excited about meeting with my priest every week but now I wish I didn’t bother.

It seems that every Catholic I meet is a liberal who is against the Church’s moral teachings. I recently started University and I visited the Catholic Chaplaincy. The Priest was great but the place seems very liberal, for example, the room where they say Mass has a gay pride flag pinned to the wall. One of the chaplains is an ex-nun (which seems strange). They also let non-Catholics worship there/use the facilities eg. chapel etc.

I’ve just came back from my weekly meeting with the Priest and I feel very demoralised. I decided that I would ask the Priest about everything that troubled me about Catholicism. I don’t think it went well. I asked him about ecumenism and the need for other Christians to become Catholics. He said that the Catholic Church is not the Church of Christ per se, but that the Church of Christ subsists in it. He said that the Church of Christ is actually the large fellowship of all Christians, irregardless of denomination. He did say that the Catholic Church has the fullness of faith however. He also said that the Roman Catholic Church had placed too much emphasis on the primacy of the Pope and that more needs to be done to accomodate the Orthodox.

I asked him whether he believed in contraception and he didn’t give me an answer. He told me that most Catholics in this country do not have a problem with contraception and that it is not an infallable teaching. I told him that I was against contraception and he looked less than impressed. I told him that I could not in good conscience ever use a condom and he said that while this is ‘proper’ most Catholics disagree.

I told him that I will keep attending the Latin Mass and that I hope other younger people will attend. He didn’t greet that comment with enthusiasm either.

At the end of the meeting, he asked me whether I would like to keep seeing him. I told him that I still wanted to be confirmed but he seemed less enthusiastic than he was last week.

I’m starting to think that there are no faithful Catholics left. Everyone I meet seems so hypocritical. I’m gutted because I really believe what the Church teaches, but it seems that the church is infested with dissenters who look down on orthodox catholic teaching. I wish I met Catholics like the ones on this forum.

I feel like leaving the Church…everyone seems so hypocritical…even the Priests. I don’t know what to do. The SSPX is looking more and more appealing. I’m feel very upset at the moment .

If you leave I’d suggest looking into converting to Orthodoxy rather than going to SPPX.