S
SeekNFind
Guest
Thanks for letting me know the correct title lol! I just “discovered” this prayer and I like it. Maybe it’s because I feel like I always have something to confess (Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea **MAXIMA **culpa).
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P
Paxvobis
Guest
My parish has been preparing for this since summer, with sermons on it as well as bulletin inserts.
This morning when we actually did it, however, the Creed and the final “And with Your Spirit” were the only things that were said correctly by ‘the collective voice of the congregation’ even though we all had cards in front of us. The priest said everything correctly and his sermon was very informative and was on the history of changes to the Mass, such as when they added the Collect and the Credo to the Mass.
I like the new Collects, Secrets, and Post-Communions. They have more theological depth than what we’ve been using. I think people will get the hang of it soon (except I suspect we’ll be hearing a lot of ‘And also with You’ this Christmas and Easter
).
This morning when we actually did it, however, the Creed and the final “And with Your Spirit” were the only things that were said correctly by ‘the collective voice of the congregation’ even though we all had cards in front of us. The priest said everything correctly and his sermon was very informative and was on the history of changes to the Mass, such as when they added the Collect and the Credo to the Mass.
I like the new Collects, Secrets, and Post-Communions. They have more theological depth than what we’ve been using. I think people will get the hang of it soon (except I suspect we’ll be hearing a lot of ‘And also with You’ this Christmas and Easter
).
J
JReducation
Guest
In many dioceses the Gloria is not said during advent. The wreath is blessed at the opening mass of Advent. That would have been on Saturday night.It went ok! We had the Archbishop presiding today
However, a couple questions:
-We prayed the Mea Culpa prayer today. Will that happen routinely now?
-We didn’t sing Glory to God in the Highest.
-At one point before communion there was a prayer said and I had no idea what it was.
-No blessing of the advent wreath?
The bishop cannot disapprove. The Conventual Franciscans are an exempt religious order. Bishops and laity cannot interfere in their celebration of the liturgy. The bishop can request that they use the Roman Missal exclusively, but he cannot order them to do so.
It was updated in 1970. There are no more updates coming. Do not confuse the Roman-Franciscan Sacramentary with the Seraphic Missal. The Seraphic Missal was abrogated by Pope Paul VI. It will probably not be recovered, because SP says that only those missals that were approved in 1962 may be used. The Seraphic Missal dates back to 1223. It was the precursor of the Tidentine Missal. Unlike the Tridentine Missal, the Seraphic Missal had never been tweaked. The Tridentine Missal had been tweaked several times over the centuries between Pius V and Pope John XXIII.
That’s right. That’s why the bishop and the laity cannot interfere. It would throw the liturgical cycle of the order off. The liturgical life of the order takes precedence. The laity always has to accommodate to an exempt religious order, if you have one in your parish. When they celebrate a Franciscan saint, the lay people of that parish celebrate it too, even if the rest of the Church is celebrating another saint.
You will notice that on October 3 and October 4 the friars at the parish celebrate the Transitus of St. Francis on the evening of the 3rd and the Solemnity of St. Francis on the 4th. In the Roman Missal, St. Francis is a memorial. In the EF missal, it’s a third class fest. However, when the friars celebrate the EF on St. Francis, they celebrate it as first class feast with a high mass. These things will not change unless Ministers General change them. Even then, the Ministers General must submit their changes to the Holy See for approval.
Lay people who attend mass at this parish, would follow the Franciscan liturgical calendar. On some days, it coincides with the Roman Calendar and on other days it has its own feasts and solemnities. This is also true for the EF. When Franciscans celebrate the EF, they do not follow the Roman Calendar. They follow the Roman-Franciscan calendar, which combines the major holy days and seasons of the Latin Church with the major holy days of the Franciscan Order.
The entire order, all 1.7 million Franciscans around the world follow the same liturgical calendar. We celebrate the same mass and pray the same Divine Office.
What they did was that those errors that had been carried over from the Roman Missal into the Roman - Franciscan Missal, were corrected, such as the words of consecration. As of today, they say “for the many” just like everyone else. But the re-edited Roman - Franciscan Missal came out in late August or early Sept. It came with a directive to implement it by Advent. The friars had from Sept to now to review the corrections and to make sure that the corrections did not alter the Franciscan elements in the missal, such as the collects, calendar and Franciscan rituals.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
M
MissBorgia
Guest
went reasonably well…half the congregation was still saying ‘and also with you’…and the other half was saying ‘and with your spirit’. but all in all went pretty good.
A
acadian
Guest
We always have a blessing of the Advent Wreath, but did not this year.
I’m guessing that Father was already a little nervous and just wanted to get through the basics.
"if you don’t laugh at my mistakes, I wont laugh at yours…
Next year…
I think the new translation is beautiful - especially the prayers that the priest says
I emailed my priest saying that they had taken something beautiful (the Mass) and made it even more so. He replied that he loved the new translation, but wished his “book” was more user-friendly.
M
MarkThompson
Guest
In which dioceses is the Gloria said during Advent?
(If this is a “many = all” joke in keeping with the new translation, you’re too funny, Brother!
)
D
drforjc
Guest
Very nice at our parish. Unified and strong responses with the new translation. Father “ramped it up” for a couple of months preceding and the result was very gratifying. I am very proud of the positive response here. Well done!
Y
YoungTradCath
Guest
Mass was fantastically excellentissimo.
The penitential feeling was uber-magnified. Mass really did an amazing job at instilling the guilt, which was rather disconcerting, but I still loved it. We had two deacons assisting instead of just one, although unfortunately there was only one dalmatic. Oh well.
We used the Confiteor and the Nicene Creed (I don’t much care for the Apostles’ Creed). Father chanted the Preface, which was exceedingly beautiful, and I was so excited to hear the Choirs of Angels named individually in it. He used Eucharistic Prayer III, which I had never heard before but which was quite good. I was somewhat disappointed as I was hoping to hear the Roman Canon, but oh well, I guess. The Domine, non sum dignus went perfectly. The and with your spirits were a little messed up, but people got it eventually. Father used a Solemn Form of Blessing at the end before the Dismissal, which was also quite beautiful. The choir did a spot-on job with everything.
Processional was “O Come, O Come, Emmanuel.” Recessional was “People, Look East.” I don’t remember the other ones. I wish we used Propers, though.
As I said, Father chanted the Preface, and we practiced the Preface Dialogue before mass began, and at the end of that, he said chanting is being “highly encouraged” now in all parts of the mass, although he didn’t mention by whom. He said that over the next few months, more and more parts of the mass will be chanted until all parts that can be chanted will be.
All in all, probably the most memorable mass I’ve attended in my life along with my first EF. Father likes the new missal quite a lot. The church bought this one:
ltp.org/p-2312-the-roman-missal-ritual-edition.aspx
which is thoroughly beautiful.
The penitential feeling was uber-magnified. Mass really did an amazing job at instilling the guilt, which was rather disconcerting, but I still loved it. We had two deacons assisting instead of just one, although unfortunately there was only one dalmatic. Oh well.
We used the Confiteor and the Nicene Creed (I don’t much care for the Apostles’ Creed). Father chanted the Preface, which was exceedingly beautiful, and I was so excited to hear the Choirs of Angels named individually in it. He used Eucharistic Prayer III, which I had never heard before but which was quite good. I was somewhat disappointed as I was hoping to hear the Roman Canon, but oh well, I guess. The Domine, non sum dignus went perfectly. The and with your spirits were a little messed up, but people got it eventually. Father used a Solemn Form of Blessing at the end before the Dismissal, which was also quite beautiful. The choir did a spot-on job with everything.
Processional was “O Come, O Come, Emmanuel.” Recessional was “People, Look East.” I don’t remember the other ones. I wish we used Propers, though.
As I said, Father chanted the Preface, and we practiced the Preface Dialogue before mass began, and at the end of that, he said chanting is being “highly encouraged” now in all parts of the mass, although he didn’t mention by whom. He said that over the next few months, more and more parts of the mass will be chanted until all parts that can be chanted will be.
All in all, probably the most memorable mass I’ve attended in my life along with my first EF. Father likes the new missal quite a lot. The church bought this one:
ltp.org/p-2312-the-roman-missal-ritual-edition.aspx
which is thoroughly beautiful.
J
JReducation
Guest
Actually, I ruined my own punchline. I was trying to do a play on words with “for all” and “for many” and ruined it by using “in”.In which dioceses is the Gloria said during Advent?
(If this is a “many = all” joke in keeping with the new translation, you’re too funny, Brother!
I’ll try again later.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
C
CB_Catholic
Guest
Things went ok at Mass, with the people having trouble remembering to say “and with your spirit”. Father tried to direct things so we didn’t miss the changes, but I could see he was having a rather difficult time too, with his own part. In fact, he reverted back now and then. I hope that was a mistake.
I, however, surprised myself. I do not like the changes as well as I thought I would now that I have heard them in an actual Mass. I have been explaining them and promoting them for months to my friends, some of whom were rather skeptical, and looking forward to the changes, and then when the time came, I found I really did not like the rhythm of the Mass and the elevated language as much as I thought I would. I find some of it unnecessarily “stuffy” and awkward. It is going to take me a long time to get used to this, and I was one of the biggest supporters of it.
We are using the setting of A Community Mass, and I find it extremely hard to sing, as does everyone else, esp. the Gloria (which of course was not sung today).
I will just have to get used to it, and I am not going to complain about it.
I, however, surprised myself. I do not like the changes as well as I thought I would now that I have heard them in an actual Mass. I have been explaining them and promoting them for months to my friends, some of whom were rather skeptical, and looking forward to the changes, and then when the time came, I found I really did not like the rhythm of the Mass and the elevated language as much as I thought I would. I find some of it unnecessarily “stuffy” and awkward. It is going to take me a long time to get used to this, and I was one of the biggest supporters of it.
We are using the setting of A Community Mass, and I find it extremely hard to sing, as does everyone else, esp. the Gloria (which of course was not sung today).
I will just have to get used to it, and I am not going to complain about it.
G
GwenL
Guest
Thanks, Br JR…
The bishop cannot disapprove. The Conventual Franciscans are an exempt religious order. Bishops and laity cannot interfere in their celebration of the liturgy. The bishop can request that they use the Roman Missal exclusively, but he cannot order them to do so.
…
It was updated in 1970. There are no more updates coming. Do not confuse the Roman-Franciscan Sacramentary with the Seraphic Missal.
…
You will notice that on October 3 and October 4 the friars at the parish celebrate the Transitus of St. Francis on the evening of the 3rd and the Solemnity of St. Francis on the 4th. In the Roman Missal, St. Francis is a memorial. In the EF missal, it’s a third class fest. However, when the friars celebrate the EF on St. Francis, they celebrate it as first class feast with a high mass.
…
Lay people who attend mass at this parish, would follow the Franciscan liturgical calendar. On some days, it coincides with the Roman Calendar and on other days it has its own feasts and solemnities. This is also true for the EF. When Franciscans celebrate the EF, they do not follow the Roman Calendar. They follow the Roman-Franciscan calendar, which combines the major holy days and seasons of the Latin Church with the major holy days of the Franciscan Order.
The entire order, all 1.7 million Franciscans around the world follow the same liturgical calendar. We celebrate the same mass and pray the same Divine Office.
What they did was that those errors that had been carried over from the Roman Missal into the Roman - Franciscan Missal, were corrected, such as the words of consecration. As of today, they say “for the many” just like everyone else. But the re-edited Roman - Franciscan Missal came out in late August or early Sept. It came with a directive to implement it by Advent. The friars had from Sept to now to review the corrections and to make sure that the corrections did not alter the Franciscan elements in the missal, such as the collects, calendar and Franciscan rituals.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
I understand that the bishop isn’t going to dictate to the Conventual Franciscans in his diocese. But what about when the Franciscans are serving the Cathedral parish? This is our case. I don’t think it ever gets to that, but I imagine that there is something in their contract.
By the way, our bishop (not a Franciscan) was celebrant for the St Francis high Mass last year. I think we had half the friars from the province concelebrating. It was nice.
The Transitus service certainly is beautiful.
You are right, we use the OFM Ordo. I’m quite interested, since I’m a daily Mass sacristan and have to use this to set up the books and the colors. You know, prior to the implementation of the new translation, the friars normally used the standard sacramentary, except on unique Franciscan days, then they used the Romano-Franciscan, because it has the propers for the Franciscan feast or memorial. We also use a Franciscan lectionary on that day.
I’ll have to check our Romano-Franciscan sacramentary. I don’t think it is as new as August or September. Perhaps the new one has been ordered and its not here yet.
I’ve not seen a Seraphic Missal.
J
JReducation
Guest
It was deliberately written to be stuffy. Do you speak any of the Romance Languages?
If you listen to conversation in Spanish and then go to mass, the Spanish in the mass is very “stuffy”. It uses many big words that no one knows what they mean. There is the use of very flowery language. But it’s actually one of the best translations from the Latin. The Latin is quite formal, not because it’s Latin, but because of the choice of words.
I attended a mass celebrated by a Trinitarian Brother. He has been in Egypt and Mexico. He said that today was the first time since he came to the USA where he recognized the mass parts, because they actually correspond word for word to the Arabic and Spanish. I speak Spanish, Italian, French and German. I know that those translations were well done. I don’t speak Arabic. But he was telling me that the translation is very good. He was surprised when he arrived in the USA. To put it in his words, “The prayers of the mass sounded like the American people, not like Catholics.”
Moving along, I think that for those who know the mass in one of the Romance Languages, “And with your spirit” is going to be easier to use in English than for those who have never heard it before. I remember that it was used in English. But I can’t remember when it was changed. Maybe it was one of those time when I was outside of the USA. I know that there is an entire generation of Americans that never heard “And with your Spirit.”
After communion, Brother told the congregation, “Relax. There is only one more ‘And with your spirit’ left.” I could almost hear a sigh of relieve from some people. This was the bigger stumbling block. The other parts, people paid very close attention to the cue cards. Though I did laugh when we came to “consubstantial”. The Creed was going along with a nice cadence and suddenly, it was as if we reached a school zone. Everyone slowed down and then took off again after the word was out.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
L
lil_flower_luv
Guest
Whatever floats your boat. The Church is still the Church.This reminds me of the story of an elderly J.R.R. Tolkien in the 1970s defiantly giving all the liturgical responses in Latin, very loudly.
T
TheRealJuliane
Guest
We stumbled, but so did Father. The worst part was
“Holy, holy, holyyyyyy
Lord God of hosts
Heaven and earth are full of your glory
Hosannah in the highest…”
No one knew what to do with the “holyyyyy” and yes, it was written that way on the screens, so most people started to do it the old way, the cantor was confused and didn’t start singing until the 3rd line, it was a MESS!!
“And also with you…with your spirit” seems to be what we end up with. But by the 3rd occurrence, we had almost…nailed it.
I imagine that we will be able to drown out the Christmas Catholics, or I hope so, because they will be bumfuzzled for sure.
“Holy, holy, holyyyyyy
Lord God of hosts
Heaven and earth are full of your glory
Hosannah in the highest…”
No one knew what to do with the “holyyyyy” and yes, it was written that way on the screens, so most people started to do it the old way, the cantor was confused and didn’t start singing until the 3rd line, it was a MESS!!
“And also with you…with your spirit” seems to be what we end up with. But by the 3rd occurrence, we had almost…nailed it.
I imagine that we will be able to drown out the Christmas Catholics, or I hope so, because they will be bumfuzzled for sure.
B
beehumble
Guest
Much ado about nothing! Our Church handled it aok (sure there were some mix ups hare and there - no big deal - in a few weeks it will all go as smooth as before).
God bless you.
God bless you.
T
TheRealJuliane
Guest
L
lil_flower_luv
Guest
I would hardly consider the installation of the new Roman Missal “nothing,” but I see your point.
I don’t know about everybody else, but I feel as giddy as a little girl on Christmas Eve.
Something special is being given to us and we should be excited! The fundamentals of the Mass have not changed, but I can tell you, if the reason for the new translation is to bring us all to a better understanding of the Mass and therefore, closer to Christ, I can say it will do nothing but succeed! We just have to come with empty hands and an open heart.
Thank you, Holy Spirit!
J
JReducation
Guest
I agree with you. I was so excited when I went to bed last night that I hardly slept. When we were getting ready to go to mass, I keep rushing the brothers to go. I was standing at the bottom of the stairs shouting for them to come down. That’s how excited I was, like a kid at Christmas.I would hardly consider the installation of the new Roman Missal “nothing,” but I see your point.
I don’t know about everybody else, but I feel as giddy as a little girl on Christmas Eve.
Something special is being given to us and we should be excited! The fundamentals of the Mass have not changed, but I can tell you, if the reason for the new translation is to bring us all to a better understanding of the Mass and therefore, closer to Christ, I can say it will do nothing but succeed! We just have to come with empty hands and an open heart.
Thank you, Holy Spirit!
Suddenly, the front door opened and in came one of the brothers and said, “So what are you waiting for? We’ve been sitting outside waiting for you for five minutes.”
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
S
Santi2
Guest
Father prepared us well and our Parish has been using the New Translation since First Sunday of September.
My husband attended the 12:00 Mass of the London Central Group of The Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham and mentioned that the Ordinariate also used the New Translation. Of special note, The Angelus was prayed before Mass.
My husband attended the 12:00 Mass of the London Central Group of The Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham and mentioned that the Ordinariate also used the New Translation. Of special note, The Angelus was prayed before Mass.
S
slammers007
Guest
I really don’t understand the necessity of the change. I really don’t like
it and question the wisdom of further alienating Catholics. I really felt a loss at mass this evening.
it and question the wisdom of further alienating Catholics. I really felt a loss at mass this evening.
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