Racer X said:
Mary is human.
It is easy to find examples of pagan deities who were humans elevated to godhood. Hercules, some Roman emperors, the Mormon Jehovah, most of the Chinese folk pantheon.
None of them were born and preserved free of sin and carried to heaven body and soul at the ends of their time on earth.
Mary has no supernatural power.
The miraculous image of Guadalupe. The healing spring of Lourdes. “But Mary did not do that, God did it.” How is such a statement different from me saying that I don’t have any inherent power to move about, it is God who allows me to use my legs? When Mary appears and disappears is that not really Mary doing it but God causing it? How is that different from saying “God caused me to have a hallucination of Mary?” Is she really there or not?
Mary did not ascend to heaven under her own power. She was assumed by God. She does not appear under her own power, but is sent by God, who makes it possible for her to be seen and heard. The Blessed Mother has no supernatural power of her own, just as your legs have no power of their own. Your brain and nervous system command your legs, if everything is working properly.
As for apparition vs. hallucination, that’s part of the reason that the church has such an investigatory system in place.
We don’t worship Mary. We venerate her.
Help me understand the distinction. Please provide an example of something we do in worshipping God that we do not do when “venerating” Mary. *
I kiss the pictures of my father and sister and step-mother who have passed on. I pray for them and ask them to pray for me. Do I worship them? No, of course not.
When I worship God, there is the realization that of myself, I am nothing. I do nothing good, create nothing, accomplish nothing that does not come first from Him.
When I ask the Blessed Mother’s assistance, there is no such realization. It is not she who breathed life into me or formed me in my mother’s womb.
I am asking her to show me more about her Son and God. Fear of God maybe makes Mary somehow more approachable. I am a mother too. I see my children go through trials and heart-rending situations - she knows this kind of thing better than anyone. How to endure it and use the sorrow for good and the glory of God. This, I must learn from her.
But does that mean that everything else we do is only venerating God and that the only time we actually worship Him is in the Mass?
Oh, no. You can go to the tabernacle at any time and worship Him. You can pray at home or in your car in worship. You can sing and dance in worship of Him.
If the Our Father is worship but the Hail Holy Queen is only veneration, then I don’t see the distinction.
Do you hear anything of “thy will be done” in the Hail Holy Queen?
“Our life, our sweetness and our hope.” You said “Yes,” Mother Mary - and in doing so, you gave the whole world a Savior. Through you came our life. Your life of grace is our sweetness and your assumption into heaven is our hope - if we follow your example and say “Yes” to the will of God, we, too will live with God forever.
See, everything Mary says points to Jesus, “Whatsoever He tells you to do, do it.” And therefore everything she says points to God and Holy Spirit as well.
In the abortion debate there is talk about the unborn being human but not persons. It should be obvious to anyone that this category of non-human person was invented specifically to defend the pro-abortion position and has no other basis. “Veneration” sounds like suspiciously like this kind of invention. If it is not, then are there examples of non-worship veneration in other religions?
“Veneration” is a word that has been in use for at least a few millenia, along with “worship” and “honor” and “love.” They are terms of distinction to delineate various levels of reverence.
This “non-person human” clap-trap is a brand new equivocation courtesy of relativism that attempts to separate people from the will of God by means of alleviating their consciences.
Elizabeth
