So, i hear...

[schaick]

redrosetea-

So only the Popes hold these:

“The keys of the kingdom”
553 Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."287 The “power of the keys” designates authority to govern the house of God, which is the Church. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: "Feed my sheep."288 The power to “bind and loose” connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgements, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles289 and in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.

But don’t Priests do this? and so hold these:

II. THE POWER OF THE KEYS
981 After his Resurrection, Christ sent his apostles "so that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations."526 The apostles and their successors carry out this “ministry of reconciliation,” not only by announcing to men God’s forgiveness merited for us by Christ, and calling them to conversion and faith; but also by communicating to them the forgiveness of sins in Baptism, and reconciling them with God and with the Church through the power of the keys, received from Christ:527

 

[wisdomseeker]

Well I don’t think the Rock Jesus built His church upon was Peter nor do I think the church Jesus spoke of was or is the CC.

well, please tell me, is there a Church today that is supposed to teach all Truth to the people? if not the CC?

dont tell me about invisible Church, because invisible Church cannot teach the people.

tell me, do you hold the Keys of the Kingdom?

tell me, do you lead the sheep of Christ, do you feed the sheep? do you attend to the sheep?

did Jesus give you these Commands?

"Without truth, charity ends up in sentimentalism. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled arbitrarily. It is the fatal risk of love in a culture without truth. It falls prey to the emotions and contingent opinions of the individuals, an abused and distorted word, to the point of signifying the contrary." BXVI

 

[Dokimas]

Blue from Doki; black from Prodigal Son1; dark red Doki.

True. Good point

Does it follow that only THE leader gets the key? What kind of leader was Eliakim? Was he king?

Eliakim became a leader, second only to the king, King David. Second’s not first!!

I think they chose the wrong person. I’ve written on that subject in this forum before.

If they were the leaders, which is not in dispute the 12 chosen and appointed were certainly the leaders, they had every right to choose whoever they decided upon. Where did the authority to choose pass from Jesus to the disciples? Did they help Jesus select the first 12? And look at who God most likely chose – Paul.

But, they, the Apostles, prayed and let God decide. They chose two people and cast lots. Where does it say that the successor was to be chosen by casting lots? Was God supposed to cause the ‘lots’ to suspend in air if they had chosen the wrong ones? They truly believed in all that Christ had spoken to them and they showed faith in Him and His word. Agreed. Not seeing how it fits here, though.
Act 1:24 And praying, they said: Thou, Lord, who knowest the heart of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, They gave God NO option but to chose one of the two. Which of the 11 were chosen by casting lots?

Are you sure David did the giving? Looks to me like God did the giving.

Good point, however, who bestowed the keys to the kingdom of heaven to Peter? A rhetorical question.

Are we sure they are the same keys?

Jews considered the Davidic throne to be the throne of God. The prime minister **I’m not familiar with this term from the Bible for Christ would sit upon His earthly throne, in the King’s earthly abscence. Scriptures tell us it was the same throne. ** I was under the impression the throne is in Heaven and the Father and the Son are seated there.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. Jesus reigns, not Peter.**
Luk 1:33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end.** Jesus doesn’t need a prime minister. He sent His Spirit.
Keys to the house of David, in his kingdom…keys to the kingdom of heaven, unto the throne of David. The typology is quite clear. David’s house, Jesus’ house, David’d kingdom, Jesus’ kingdom…one throne, from the old covenant to the new covenant.

Sure. I’ve not read that they got any keys. But then again I haven’t read that Peter was to pass the keys to someone else or that he in fact did pass them.

Now is where we have to discern, or use the minds God gave us. I guess I haven’t been using mine up til now. Peter was chosen leader and scriptures tell us that there is to be a succession. ** I was wondering where?** A ‘bishopric’ is an office of authority and all authority would pass to a successor.

Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take. Replacing Judas, not Peter.
Good point. Why would it be important to tell us Peter got them but Peter never mentioned them in his writings; so maybe they are as imortant as you think?/

Christ more than mentioned them, before witnesses. There was no need for Peter, who received several lessons of humility from the Lord, to repeat what Christ had done. ** I don’t think it’s a matter of humility; it would be important to remind us of what the Lord wanted. **Christ mentioned them with the announcement about building His Church, that even the gates of hell shall not prevail against. He mentioned them with the authority to bind and loose. Seems you’re extending what Jesus said quite far. He mentioned them at the same time He explained Simon’s name change.

Name changes in the Bible were significant and always came with an explanation. Abram becomes Abraham because God will make of him a great nation. Jacob becomes Israel because he contended and had power with God and with men and prevailed. Likewise, Simon becomes Peter because upon his strength in faith the sacred community of the faithful, the Church, would be founded. Do you find it interesting that just after Jesus changed Peter’s name Jesus said, Mt 16:23 'But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”'

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

redrosetea-

So only the Popes hold these:

“The keys of the kingdom”
553 Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."287 The “power of the keys” designates authority to govern the house of God, which is the Church. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: "Feed my sheep."288 The power to “bind and loose” connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgements, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles289 and in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.

But don’t Priests do this? and so hold these:

II. THE POWER OF THE KEYS
981 After his Resurrection, Christ sent his apostles "so that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations."526 The apostles and their successors carry out this “ministry of reconciliation,” not only by announcing to men God’s forgiveness merited for us by Christ, and calling them to conversion and faith; but also by communicating to them the forgiveness of sins in Baptism, and reconciling them with God and with the Church through the power of the keys, received from Christ:527

Christ gave one the keys to the kingdom of heaven. At that time he gave Him the authority to bind and to loose.

Later, when discussing the authority of the Church, Christ gave the men of the Church the authority to bind and loose. The second is in reference to reconciliation. The first is a greater authority with the inclusion of the keys.

Christ confirms the authority to forgive and retain sins to all of them.

**Joh 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
Joh 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. **

 

[Dokimas]

Black: wisdomseeker; blue: Doki:

well, please tell me, is there a Church today that is supposed to teach all Truth to the people? if not the CC? Yep; the Body of Christ. BTW I don’t see the name of the church Jesus founded in the Bible. I wonder why?
dont tell me about invisible Church, because invisible Church cannot teach the people. Okay I won’t share what quite possibly is the answer to your question if you don’t want me to.

tell me, do you hold the Keys of the Kingdom? I’ve never seen any so I can’t answer.

tell me, do you lead the sheep of Christ, do you feed the sheep? do you attend to the sheep? At times in my life, yes, some of them.

did Jesus give you these Commands? Indirectly, yes. That doens’t make me special.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Black: wisdomseeker; blue: Doki:

well, please tell me, is there a Church today that is supposed to teach all Truth to the people? if not the CC? Yep; the Body of Christ. BTW I don’t see the name of the church Jesus founded in the Bible. I wonder why?
dont tell me about invisible Church, because invisible Church cannot teach the people. Okay I won’t share what quite possibly is the answer to your question if you don’t want me to.

tell me, do you hold the Keys of the Kingdom? I’ve never seen any so I can’t answer.

tell me, do you lead the sheep of Christ, do you feed the sheep? do you attend to the sheep? At times in my life, yes, some of them.

did Jesus give you these Commands? Indirectly, yes. That doens’t make me special.

the Body of Christ teachs who?

you mean you read the Bible but you could not claim the keys? why not? you claim just everything else.

i know you dont tend or feed or lead the Catholic sheep. this i know.

indirectly? is it how you explain something that was taking and not giving?

**
“Without truth, charity ends up in sentimentalism. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled arbitrarily. It is the fatal risk of love in a culture without truth. It falls prey to the emotions and contingent opinions of the individuals, an abused and distorted word, to the point of signifying the contrary.” BXVI**

 

[Dokimas]

Black=wisdomseeker; blue=Doki;

the Body of Christ teachs who? Anyone who will listen.

you mean you read the Bible DON’T YOU? but you could not claim the keys? Nope. why not? Don’t know. you claim just everything else. I have?

i know you dont tend or feed or lead the Catholic sheep. this i know. I have taught former catholics after they left the CC. I taught NOTHING about the CC one way nor another. But what’s your point?
indirectly? What??? is it how you explain something that was taking and not giving? What???​

BTW, you remind me of Bill.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Where did the authority to choose pass from Jesus to the disciples? Did they help Jesus select the first 12? And look at who God most likely chose – Paul.

Paul got knocked off His high horse, so to speak, He immediately stopped persecuting the Christians and it showed the Apostles that the Church was to grow beyond the 12.

**Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.**

**Mat 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. **

**Joh 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself. I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written. **

They chose two people and cast lots. Where does it say that the successor was to be chosen by casting lots? Was God supposed to cause the ‘lots’ to suspend in air if they had chosen the wrong ones? Agreed. Not seeing how it fits here, though.

Seriously? They decided to let God make the decision, so they prayed and cast lots. There was no set rules, it’s the way they let God make the decision.

Good point, however, who bestowed the keys to the kingdom of heaven to Peter? A rhetorical question.

No, it’s not. God gave the key to Eliakim and God gave the keys to Peter.

**I’m not familiar with this term from the Bible **

Prime minister is not in the Bible, but then neither is Trinity. The holder of the keys was second in command ONLY to the king. So we use a modern term to describe the authority, it does not take away from the authority.

** I was under the impression the throne is in Heaven and the Father and the Son are seated there.**

Christ rules from His heavenly throne, but the Davidic throne, is on earth. There is a physical absence of the King on earth. He gave His keys to His second in command.

Jesus reigns, not Peter. Jesus doesn’t need a prime minister. He sent His Spirit.

Then why didn’t Christ limit it specified as such? Why did Christ give Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven, with the authority to bind and loose? When Christ speaks about the Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth, being with them, it was them He was speaking too and not a multitude.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I guess I haven’t been using mine up til now.

Doesn’t scriptures teach us to discern? We discern with more than just our hearts. God gave us our ‘intelligence’.

** I was wondering where?**

Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take.

Psa 109:8 May his days be few: and his bishopric let another take.

Replacing Judas, not Peter.

Come on. If one bishopirc is to be replaced, surely the others are to be replaced. It’s that discern thing we just discussed.

** I don’t think it’s a matter of humility; it would be important to remind us of what the Lord wanted. **

**Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. **

Peter didn’t have to ‘ring his own bell’, the Apostles were witnesses.

Seems you’re extending what Jesus said quite far.

How? They didn’t tell stories a verse at a time. It’s a passage that tells of Peter’s name being explained, announcement of His Church, giving the keys and the authority to bind and loose.

Do you find it interesting that just after Jesus changed Peter’s name Jesus said, Mt 16:23 'But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”'

It’s one of those lessons of humilty. After that had happened, after Peter denied Him 3 times, Christ still came back and before witnesses, addressed Peter specifically.

**Joh 21:15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:18 Amen, amen, I say to thee, When thou wast younger, thou didst gird thyself and didst walk where thou wouldst. But when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee and lead thee whither thou wouldst not.
Joh 21:19 And this he said, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had said this, he saith to him: Follow me.
Joh 21:20 Peter turning about, saw that disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also leaned on his breast at supper and said: Lord, who is he that shall betray thee?
Joh 21:21 Him therefore when Peter had seen, he saith to Jesus: Lord, and what shall this man do?
Joh 21:22 Jesus saith to him: So I will have him to remain till I come, what is it to thee? Follow thou me.
Joh 21:23 This saying therefore went abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die. And Jesus did not say to him: He should not die; but: So I will have him to remain till I come, what is it to thee?
Joh 21:24 This is that disciple who giveth testimony of these things and hath written these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
Joh 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself. I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.
**

Peter was not an educated man. The Lord chose a fisherman. This shows who leads the leader He had chosen.

 

[Dokimas]

[SIGN]QUOTE=Prodigal Son1;6243662]I guess I haven’t been using mine up til now.

Doesn’t scriptures teach us to discern? We discern with more than just our hearts. God gave us our ‘intelligence’.

** I was wondering where?**

Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take.

Psa 109:8 May his days be few: and his bishopric let another take.

Replacing Judas, not Peter.

Come on. If one bishopirc is to be replaced, surely the others are to be replaced. It’s that discern thing we just discussed.

** I don’t think it’s a matter of humility; it would be important to remind us of what the Lord wanted. **

**Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. **

Peter didn’t have to ‘ring his own bell’, the Apostles were witnesses.

Seems you’re extending what Jesus said quite far.

How? They didn’t tell stories a verse at a time. It’s a passage that tells of Peter’s name being explained, announcement of His Church, giving the keys and the authority to bind and loose.

Do you find it interesting that just after Jesus changed Peter’s name Jesus said, Mt 16:23 'But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”'

It’s one of those lessons of humilty. After that had happened, after Peter denied Him 3 times, Christ still came back and before witnesses, addressed Peter specifically.

**Joh 21:15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:18 Amen, amen, I say to thee, When thou wast younger, thou didst gird thyself and didst walk where thou wouldst. But when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee and lead thee whither thou wouldst not.
Joh 21:19 And this he said, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had said this, he saith to him: Follow me.
Joh 21:20 Peter turning about, saw that disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also leaned on his breast at supper and said: Lord, who is he that shall betray thee?
Joh 21:21 Him therefore when Peter had seen, he saith to Jesus: Lord, and what shall this man do?
Joh 21:22 Jesus saith to him: So I will have him to remain till I come, what is it to thee? Follow thou me.
Joh 21:23 This saying therefore went abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die. And Jesus did not say to him: He should not die; but: So I will have him to remain till I come, what is it to thee?
Joh 21:24 This is that disciple who giveth testimony of these things and hath written these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
Joh 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself. I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.
**

Peter was not an educated man. The Lord chose a fisherman. This shows who leads the leader He had chosen.[/SIGN]​

You have it all worked out. Good for you.​

BTW, I use my God given mind and you kind of slam me (see red, bold and underlined above). So much for using my mind.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Black=wisdomseeker; blue=Doki;

the Body of Christ teachs who? Anyone who will listen.

you mean you read the Bible DON’T YOU? but you could not claim the keys? Nope. why not? Don’t know. you claim just everything else. I have?

i know you dont tend or feed or lead the Catholic sheep. this i know. I have taught former catholics after they left the CC. I taught NOTHING about the CC one way nor another. But what’s your point?
indirectly? What??? is it how you explain something that was taking and not giving? What???​

BTW, you remind me of Bill.

and which Body should they listen to? the one that says baptism is not necessary or the one that says baptism is necessary for salvation.

the one that says the Eucharist is just symbolic or the one that says that the Eucharist is the True Body and Blood of Christ?

the one that says that there is One True Church found by our Lord or the one that says that the Church is invisible?

numbers 12
nd Mary and Aaron spoke against Moses, because of his wife the Ethiopian, 2 and they said: Has the Lord spoken by Moses only? Has he not also spoken to us in like manner? And when the Lord heard this, 3 (for Moses was a man exceeding meek above all men that dwelt upon earth) 4 immediately he spoke to him, and to Aaron and Mary: Come out you three only to the tabernacle of the covenant. And when they had come out, 5 the Lord came down in a pillar of the cloud, and stood in the entry of the tabernacle calling to Aaron and Mary. And when they had come, 6 he said to them: Hear my words: if there be among you a prophet of the Lord, I will appear to him in a vision, or I will speak to him in a dream. 7 But it is not so with my servant Moses who is most faithful in all my house: 8 For I speak to him mouth to mouth: and plainly, and not by riddles and figures does he see the Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak ill of my servant Moses?

"Without truth, charity ends up in sentimentalism. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled arbitrarily. It is the fatal risk of love in a culture without truth. It falls prey to the emotions and contingent opinions of the individuals, an abused and distorted word, to the point of signifying the contrary." BXVI

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You have it all worked out. Good for you.​

BTW, I use my God given mind and you kind of slam me (see red, bold and underlined above). So much for using my mind.

I don’t have it all worked out. I had to empty my cup with what I had filled it with and let God refill it with what He wanted and it makes sense, spiritually and mentality.

Please believe me, I was not trying to slam you at all. I actually worked that as delicately as I could, because it was not my intention to ‘slam’ you. It’s just so hard to make some see what is so clear to me, and you have to admit, you made me go into some fine detail…

 

[Dokimas]

I don’t have it all worked out. I had to empty my cup with what I had filled it with and let God refill it with what He wanted and it makes sense, spiritually and mentality.

Please believe me, I was not trying to slam you at all. I actually worked that as delicately as I could, because it was not my intention to ‘slam’ you. It’s just so hard to make some see what is so clear to me, and you have to admit, you made me go into some fine detail…

WOW I’m glad you didn’t mean to slam me cuz my head is still rattling. Can’t imagine what my head would be like if you tried to slam me.​

As for me, I started with an empty head. I hope God’s been doing some filling.

 

[Dokimas]

and which Body should they listen to? the one that says baptism is not necessary or the one that says baptism is necessary for salvation. Seeing how I don’t believe the Bible teaches baptism is necessary for salvation you can conclude for yourself.

the one that says the Eucharist is just symbolic or the one that says that the Eucharist is the True Body and Blood of Christ? I don’t believe the Bible teaches the real presence of Jesus is in the elements of communion. Again, you answer your own question.

the one that says that there is One True Church found by our Lord or the one that says that the Church is invisible? Both, cuz the One True Church is invisible in that it includes all the real believers thoughout history and the world today - seeing as you haven’t seen them all, they are invisible (universal).

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

WOW I’m glad you didn’t mean to slam me cuz my head is still rattling. Can’t imagine what my head would be like if you tried to slam me.​

As for me, I started with an empty head. I hope God’s been doing some filling.

:whacky::hammering:

:console:

 

[Dokimas]

:whacky::hammering:

:console:

; Night friend!!!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

; Night friend!!!

Goodnight, and have a better tomorrow.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Dokimas:
To Dokimas
**Originally Posted by wisdomseeker
and which Body should they listen to? the one that says baptism is not necessary or the one that says baptism is necessary for salvation. Seeing how I don’t believe the Bible teaches baptism is necessary for salvation you can conclude for yourself.

the one that says the Eucharist is just symbolic or the one that says that the Eucharist is the True Body and Blood of Christ? I don’t believe the Bible teaches the real presence of Jesus is in the elements of communion. Again, you answer your own question.

the one that says that there is One True Church found by our Lord or the one that says that the Church is invisible? Both, cuz the One True Church is invisible in that it includes all the real believers thoughout history and the world today - seeing as you haven’t seen them all, they are invisible (universal). **

so, there are two Bodies according to your understanding.

who should they listen to? which Body?

the One True Church is invisible? are you talking about the Catholic Saints that are in Heaven wiht the Lord? they are all part of the One True Church. when they went to be with Our Lord they did not take the Church with them. Jesus said that His Church woud be here until he comes in glory. i think what you are really saying is that Jesus already came and took His Church. is it what you are saying?

When we eat this Bread and drink this Cup, we proclaim your death oh Lord Jesus Christ, until you come in Glory!!! until you come in Glory, until you come in Glory.

 

[SteveVH]

It was amazing reading these posts after only being away for a day. I found this a very interesting thread but made the mistake of making some jabs on the personal level which helps no one. For anyone who has been offended, I apologize. It distracts from the business at hand. I love my Church and will defend it at every turn. Of course there have been changes since the early centuries, but these changes are much like a person who grows throughout life. The appearance may change, but it is still the same person with the same original heart, mind and soul. Hopefully we grow in knowledge and wisdom and try on some new clothes. But we remain the same (original) person.

This will be my last post on this thread. I think it is best that I bow out at his point.

Have fun folks and God bless.

 

[redrosetea]

redrosetea-

So only the Popes hold these:

“The keys of the kingdom”
553 Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."287 The “power of the keys” designates authority to govern the house of God, which is the Church. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: "Feed my sheep."288 The power to “bind and loose” connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgements, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles289 and in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.

But don’t Priests do this? and so hold these:

II. THE POWER OF THE KEYS
981 After his Resurrection, Christ sent his apostles "so that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations."526 The apostles and their successors carry out this “ministry of reconciliation,” not only by announcing to men God’s forgiveness merited for us by Christ, and calling them to conversion and faith; but also by communicating to them the forgiveness of sins in Baptism, and reconciling them with God and with the Church through the power of the keys, received from Christ:527

I think Wisdom seeker has explained it…Forgiveness of sin is a sacrament that can only be administered by a priest

The Keys are not this…The Power to make decisions on faith and morals for the entire church is what the Keys are about

The Pope interprets scripture, he has the final word a priest administers the sacrament of forgiveness based on what the church teaches is sinful

Say some new development comes along to cure cancer…the pope must determine if any of God’s law have been broken in developing this cure…like stems cells

WE need to know what is a sin for it to be taught from the pulpit and for a priest to forgive it…the pope through prayer and scripture and tradition makes the call if something in question is a sin…this is what the rabbis do…interpret the law