So, i hear...

  • Thread starter Thread starter wisdomseeker
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Dokimas said:

I​

I misread your original post. I have not said the Scirptures are of private interpretation.​

2 Peter 1:
19 ¶ And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.​

It’s the Holy Spirit only that knows the Mind of God.​

1 Corintians 2:
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
16 For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Notice who has the Mind of Christ - all believers.​

And with the Holy Spirit’s help, look what we can do…​

John 14:
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
25 ¶ "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

and

1 John 2:
20 ¶ But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 Therefore let that abide in you **which you heard **from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that He has promised us–eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
Click to expand...
Nothing written, with the exception of Peter’s writings address scriptures specifically.

The second passage was spoken only to the Apostles, appointed by Christ.

If you read the 1 John passage, you posted, you’ll see it is about an authoritative preaching that they heard. He writes that he taught them truth and they didn’t need another to teach them. Those teachings were about those who denies the Son, Jesus Christ. Catholics do not deny Him. We share in the basic teaching.

What it appears is, you have taken a specifically worded scripture against private interpretation and are using other scriptures that do not specially reference interpretation of scriptures, to justify private interpretation. 🤷
 
Dokimas said:

I​

I misread your original post. I have not said the Scirptures are of private interpretation.​

2 Peter 1:
19 ¶ And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.​

It’s the Holy Spirit only that knows the Mind of God.​

1 Corintians 2:
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
16 For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Notice who has the Mind of Christ - all believers.​

And with the Holy Spirit’s help, look what we can do…​

John 14:
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
25 ¶ "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

and

1 John 2:
20 ¶ But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that He has promised us–eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
Click to expand...
I still dont see where it says that each individual is to enterpret Scriptures.

i am waiting.

martin luther
“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.”
Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O’Hare, Ibid, 209.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Nothing written, with the exception of Peter’s writings address scriptures specifically.

The second passage was spoken only to the Apostles, appointed by Christ.

If you read the 1 John passage, you posted, you’ll see it is about an authoritative preaching that they heard. He writes that he taught them truth and they didn’t need another to teach them. Those teachings were about those who denies the Son, Jesus Christ. Catholics do not deny Him. We share in the basic teaching.

What it appears is, you have taken a specifically worded scripture against private interpretation and are using other scriptures that do not specially reference interpretation of scriptures, to justify private interpretation. 🤷
Click to expand...

Actually what I’ve said over and over and over again is that Scripture is NOT of private interpretation.​

Could you prove that Jesus was only speaking to the disciples?​

As for the 1 John passage, where then do the Holy Spirit (which is mentioned in the passage) fit into you understanding of the verses?
 
Dokimas said:

Actually what I’ve said over and over and over again is that Scripture is NOT of private interpretation.​

Could you prove that Jesus was only speaking to the disciples?​

As for the 1 John passage, where then do the Holy Spirit (which is mentioned in the passage) fit into you understanding of the verses?
Click to expand...
I understand that you read and interpret scriptures with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The problem, as Catholics see it, is that there are thousands of Protestant denominations with slight to great differences in doctrines, all based on someone’s private interpretation and all claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit. How can truth equal many conflicting truths?

Now, for John 14, go read John 13 and see where they are and what they’re doing. They had just finished supper and were in a discussion. That discussion was not interrupted, nor did they change locations.

John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father: and as the Father hath given me commandments, so do I. Arise, let us go hence.

Even after they went ‘hence’, in chapter 15, the discussion, or teachings from Christ, continued, even through chapter 16 and upto 17 when Christ went to pray. No one else was around them until chapter 18, when they came to arrest Christ.

The entire discussion was teachings, building confidence and warning them of what was about to happen. It was not a discussion for the multitudes. Now, this doesn’t mean we cannot learn from these teachings, we can. We cannot assume an authority that was appointed to those He chose. As I said, He was building confidence, He was doing this by telling the Apostles how He would be their support through the Holy Spirit. He knew they were going to be building His Church through persecutions and there would be sufferings and lacks of confidence. These were afterall, only men, but men He chose and appointed.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I understand that you read and interpret scriptures with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The problem, as Catholics see it, is that there are thousands of Protestant denominations with slight to great differences in doctrines, all based on someone’s private interpretation and all claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit. How can truth equal many conflicting truths?

Now, for John 14, go read John 13 and see where they are and what they’re doing. They had just finished supper and were in a discussion. That discussion was not interrupted, nor did they change locations.

John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father: and as the Father hath given me commandments, so do I. Arise, let us go hence.

Even after they went ‘hence’, in chapter 15, the discussion, or teachings from Christ, continued, even through chapter 16 and upto 17 when Christ went to pray. No one else was around them until chapter 18, when they came to arrest Christ.

The entire discussion was teachings, building confidence and warning them of what was about to happen. It was not a discussion for the multitudes. Now, this doesn’t mean we cannot learn from these teachings, we can. We cannot assume an authority that was appointed to those He chose. As I said, He was building confidence, He was doing this by telling the Apostles how He would be their support through the Holy Spirit. He knew they were going to be building His Church through persecutions and there would be sufferings and lacks of confidence. These were afterall, only men, but men He chose and appointed.
Click to expand...
In the midst of John 13-18 is:

John 17:20 ¶ "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
 
Dokimas said:
In the midst of John 13-18 is:

John 17:20 ¶ "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
Click to expand...
Yes, the Lord prayed and said, ‘I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who believe in me through their word.’ That’s like Him praying, ‘I do not pray for my Apostles alone, but also for those who believe in me through the Apostles word.’

As I’ve said, we can learn from those things, whether He spoke them to the Apostles, the Father or the multitudes. But we cannot appoint ourselves as He appointed them. They were the men of His Church. They received the authority and they appointed others and the succession was begun.

He also prayed for unity in that prayer…

**Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
Joh 17:23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. **
 
Dokimas said:
Please read what I’ve said carefully. I have acknowledged the Bible isn’t for private interpretation.
Click to expand...
and what is the difference between individual’s enterpretation and private enterpretation?

Peace.

**martin luther
“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.”
Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O’Hare, Ibid, 209. **
 
wisdomseeker said:
and what is the difference between individual’s enterpretation and private enterpretation?

Peace.

**martin luther
“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.”
Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O’Hare, Ibid, 209. **
Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit.
 
tweetymom said:
The Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
tweetymom,

Your posts without explanations would almost be humorous, if it weren’t such a delicate subject which we speak about.

Now answer a question, please. If I stated giving different truths to people on these forums, through private messaging and they all found out, some would say that I’m lieing. Can the Holy Spirit give different people, different conflicting truths? Please take a few moments to explain your view.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
tweetymom,

Your posts without explanations would almost be humorous, if it weren’t such a delicate subject which we speak about.

Now answer a question, please. If I stated giving different truths to people on these forums, through private messaging and they all found out, some would say that I’m lieing. Can the Holy Spirit give different people, different conflicting truths? Please take a few moments to explain your view.
Click to expand...
Read 1 Cor.12-13. And God Bless you too.
 
tweetymom said:
Read 1 Cor.12-13. And God Bless you too.
Click to expand...
12 For as the body is one and has many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body: So also is Christ. 13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free: and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink. 14 For the body also is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say: Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body: Is it therefore not of the Body? 16 And if the ear should say: Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body: Is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were the eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? 18 But now God has set the members, every one of them, in the body as it has pleased him.

and where does it say in here that the Holy Scriptures is to be enterpreted by individuals?

i dont see it.

martin luther
“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.”
Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O’Hare, Ibid, 209.
 
Dokimas said:
In the midst of John 13-18 is:

John 17:20 ¶ "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
Click to expand...
and whose word? the Apostles or yours?

martin luther
“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.”
Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O’Hare, Ibid, 209.
 
wisdomseeker said:
and whose word? the Apostles or yours?

martin luther
“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.”
Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O’Hare, Ibid, 209.
Click to expand...
Acts 1:8, John 14:26, 1 Cor.2:11, John16:13
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
tweetymom,

Your posts without explanations would almost be humorous, if it weren’t such a delicate subject which we speak about.

Now answer a question, please. If I stated giving different truths to people on these forums, through private messaging and they all found out, some would say that I’m lieing. Can the Holy Spirit give different people, different conflicting truths? Please take a few moments to explain your view./QUOT

Acts1:8, John14:26, 1 Cor.2:11 John 16:13
Click to expand...
 
Hello dear friends,

It appears to me the tread has not drawn more than a couple of Protestant faith defenders and one or two of the usual Catholic dissenters.

Faithful defenders of our faith as good as your Apologetics have been, I don’t think you are going to open up the minds of these few, sadly. Blessings and peace to all and I thank God for all you do,🙂 Carlan
 
tweetymom said:
Acts 1:8, John 14:26, 1 Cor.2:11, John16:13
Click to expand...
Acts 1:8 was men of the Church, only.

John 14:26 tells of a discussion between our Lord an the Apostles ,only.

John 16:13 is a continuation of a discussion between our Lord and the Apsotles, only.

Ok, tweetymom, I received a different interpretation, at least I think I did, since you only post scriptures without an explanation.

Three of those verses, if read in context of who was speaking to whom and where the discussions took place, etc., was not addressing the laity, or the multitudes. It was discussions of authority matters. Acts 1:8 was a meeting of all the Apostles, and some they had appointed, to replace Judas. John 14:26 and John 16:13 was Jesus speaking only to the Apostles, giving them instructions, building up their confidence and letting them know what was about to happen to Him. Jesus was not speaking to mulitudes and it’s a misinterpretation to think He was speaking to everyone, including people of today.

How do you take something Jesus said to Peter, and totally apply it to yourself? How come I never see someone who interprets scriptures for themselves apply the ‘get thee behind me satan’ statement to Peter to themself? It’s a pick and choose what one wants to apply to themself, which is assuming an authority upon themself, and cannot be supported by scriptures.
 
tweetymom said:
Prodigal Son1;6254125:
tweetymom,

Your posts without explanations would almost be humorous, if it weren’t such a delicate subject which we speak about.

Now answer a question, please. If I stated giving different truths to people on these forums, through private messaging and they all found out, some would say that I’m lieing. Can the Holy Spirit give different people, different conflicting truths? Please take a few moments to explain your view.[/QUOT

Acts1:8, John14:26, 1 Cor.2:11 John 16:13
Click to expand...
Tweetymon, i was perplexed by some of your reponses and so i did a search on all your posts and would suggest that if you want to pretend that you are a Catholic that you every now and then say something in line with the church teaching
Click to expand...
[/quote]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top