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CMatt25
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Have a piece of salmon in the freezer. But love those sea scallops!LOL…all that said. I still don’t mind sacrificing meat to eat salmon or tuna or cod. OMGosh…SWORDFISH!!!
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tweetymom
Guest
Sea scallops are my favorite, yum yum:thumbsup:
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CMatt25
Guest
All the dogma, defined doctrine, undefined doctrine, catechism, teachings, and disciplines can get confusing for people at times. So Lenten rules are not infallible or a teaching where adherance is expected and it’s not a sin to eat a slice of meat pizza tomorrow?
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spn82756
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Ah…I forgot about FRESH SEA SCALLOPS!!! YUMMY YUMMY YUMMY IN MY TUMMY
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FCEGM
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It is an approach in which one’s faith is relegated to personal opinion and that opinion co-opts the place of truth. This “faith” is as right as the next persons without much - if any - consideration that there actually IS truth to be discovered because it has been revealed in Christ and that it is discoverable. If one can’t even see that than all one is left with is an eternal wondering: “Is this true, or maybe it’s that which is true?” This approach, then, gives rise to a false irenicism since if what one party believes may be just as “true” as the “truth” to which another party holds, then there is no need to contend for the truth since both parties agree that the “truth” each holds is of equal value to the “truth” the other holds - and as equal to that of third or fourth parties, ad infinitum.
The late philosopher and theologian, Dr. Dietrich Von Hildebrand addresses such an approach in his work Trojan Horse in the City of God:
Also, these articles, one by the then Cardinal Ratizinger, and one by Cardinal Pell, Archbishop of Sydney, Australia, are instructive on the topic:
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=5180&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=583550
catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6841&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=583550
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FCEGM
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With the exception of “Anglo-Catholics” who are Anglican and Protestant, not Catholic, any and all of the above. AKA “cafeteria Catholics” who believe some things that the Church teaches because they have an opinion that agrees with the teaching, yet disagree with the Church precisely on the same principle of personal opinion, rather than believing all that the Church presents for belief in its magisterial authority given to it by Christ because of the gift of faith that. They thus implicitly - or explicitly - deny that there is objective Truth to be known and embraced re Faith and Morals because Christ has come from the Father to reveal Himself and how we should live in Him in this life and the next, and that Christ has given the authority to His Church to preserve and teach these truths for our salvation.
And if one denies the authority of the Church to teach, or proposes that a particular teaching on either faith and/or morals is in error, then one must explain why his insight is greater than those who ARE faithful either on earth, e.g., our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, Mother Angelica, to name but a few who come to mind - or in Heaven, e.g., John Paul II, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, St. Therese of Lisieux, St, Benedict, St. Teresa of Jesus, and St. Dominic, to name but a few more. One doesn’t look to the dissenters for examples of how to believe and live, but to those who live and have lived the Catholic Faith to the full.
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wisdomseeker
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you have put it so beautifully. i agree 2000% in everything you said.
**“To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it” St ignatious of Loyola **
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CMatt25
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Your opinions are interesting. But all Christians have a faith in Christ and they believe He is true so I’m not certain many are wondering if Christ is true.
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Lapey
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I must admit, living in South Louisiana, lent is not much of a scrifice…boiled shrimp, crabs and crawfish…someone’s got to do it!!!LOL…all that said. I still don’t mind sacrificing meat to eat salmon or tuna or cod. OMGosh…SWORDFISH!!!
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CMatt25
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After all of that you didn’t answer in what Church in your words “supposed” “aka cafeteria Catholics” were baptized in and a member of? Hint: Check your canon.
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CMatt25
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awwwwww LA crawfish and MD crabcakes. You guys are making me hungry! I’ve actually truly fasted so far today a day early and haven’t had a morsel or drop of anything today - yet! And it is approaching dinnertime where I am. My fast is about to be broken.
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Dokimas
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Me three
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Lapey
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Sorry, check the canon for what exactly? Just wondering, thought I missed something.After all of that you didn’t answer in what Church in your words “supposed” “aka cafeteria Catholics” were baptized in and a member of? Hint: Check your canon.
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FCEGM
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Not my “opinion”, but the Faith of the Church. And otc, far too many Christians deny Christ in His Divinity, or in His true humanity, or deny His Resurrection, or deny His self-knowledge, or deny His being consubstantial with the Father. While they may believe He existed, they do not have Faith in the Truth of Who He Is. There are, of course, many Christians who are in total agreement with the Catholic Church on all of the aforementioned areas of Cristology, and in this they share the Church’s Faith, though they do not practice it to the full being out of union with the authority Christ gave to St. Peter and his successors. It is on this truth that true unity may be built, not on the covering-over of real differences.
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CMatt25
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That a Catholic is a Catholic is a Catholic forever once and always a Catholic. Instead of some Catholics liking to put labels on such as “supposed”. **Supposed what? ** Oh yeah Catholic.
Sorry it just irks me to no end nowadays how some Catholics like to do this. I’m not sure if it just makes them feel better to think they are a better Catholic than someone else or what?
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CMatt25
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faith is a good word to use
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FCEGM
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Yes, I did: “any and all of the above” = the Catholic Church in its various rites which express the One Faith.After all of that you didn’t answer in what Church in your words “supposed” “aka cafeteria Catholics” were baptized in and a member of? Hint: Check your canon.
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FCEGM
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Yes, I did answer: “any and all of the above” = Catholic Church in its various rites.After all of that you didn’t answer in what Church in your words “supposed” “aka cafeteria Catholics” were baptized in and a member of? Hint: Check your canon.
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Lapey
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I don’t know and frankly don’t care how this subject came up. I know this thread didn’t start out this way.Lapey, why do you always assume I don’t understand? First of all I have argued against closed Communion. But that doesn’t mean I don’t understand why the RCC teaches closed. I understand. I just question the idea Biblically as I do wonder what our Lord is thinking sometimes about us trying to keep fellow Christians away from Him. Yes I know you believe it is themselves keeping themselves away. But not if they want to receive Him but the missalette or a priest tells them they can not. When I discussed symbolism it was in the context of explaining to Wisdomseeker why some believe in it. And I simply stated a fact that Protestants and some Catholics have trouble with transubstantiation.I dunno.
And yes I could go somewhere open Communion is officially practiced. But I was baptized, catechized, and confirmed in the RCC and have never yet gone to another church. I know you want me to accept every single mattter. But if that is not possible for my informed, prayerful conscience, would you still say, “go somewhere else” or would you rather I still stick around in the Church?
Thank you for removing your uncharitable sentence. But no need to be sorry my brother and friend in Christ.
I remember my younger days, not that long ago I am only 43, when I questioned everything the Church authority said. I know it’s not all that you question but you question. But like me, you not only question but speak out against the Church’s teachings and disciplines, now I see how wrong it was that I did.
The thing about it is, our Church works in centuries. I don’t mean that as a negative, it is good that we don’t change with the times, in fact it is imperative. How do you protect the truth if you change with the times?
This is what I wish I would have done when I went through my “questioning the Church” years; learn why we do what we do. Once I realized why priests are not married, or women are not ordained or only Catholics in good standing are to receive I see the biblical references to back up these disciplines and doctrines and now I have helped others to understand these as well. It matters what Catholics say about the Catholic Church much more than what others say. It may be some of the most meaningful words you will ever utter, negative or positive. They can be inviting words of knowledge and truth or words that convince people that the Church is wrong when she is most definitely not. If we believe that this is the Church of Jesus, then we also believe that He is in this Church. If we reject her we reject Him.
This is not about transubstantiation, or whether all one has to do is believe in Christ. Paul’s writings make these issues quite clear and you don’t need me to quote scripture.
My whole point in my posts is to invite Catholics like me and you to take the time and effort to educate those whom we want to invite in to receive, why it is important to come home and receive the entire truth, not just the Eucharist. Receiving the Eucharist without full knowledge will not bring anyone to Christ. As some have already stated on this thread, if you are a believer in Christ then that is all you need, faith is all it takes. (I am not a believer in faith alone btw.) So why would anyone want to come in to mass to receive the Eucharist then leave everything else the Church offers?
There are so many treasures in our Church, we are very fortunate to be a part of the Catholic Church and I will never be caught speaking against her again. Why, you may ask? Because our voice as Catholics matters much more than you can possibly realize.
We must be able to realize that we, individually that is, will not change anything with the prescribes of the Church. But what’s more important is that we can change the people, our brothers and sisters, around us and bring them to Christ in His Church. Isn’t that what is most important? You sited canon law in an earlier post, look at canon 1752. This is the last canon and the most important. We are going through canon law in diaconate formation right now, my third semester of canon law, my professor taught this one first. He was adamant about its importance.
CCL-1752
“…keeping in mind the salvation of souls, which in the Church must always be supreme law.”
I hope you don’t see this as an attack, as that is not my motive. I am just stating why I stay here on Catholic Answers, and on this board, to help communicate the truth to all.
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Lapey
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There are ways of “de-Catholicizing” yourself officially. There is a misconception that one who is baptized Catholic is always a Catholic. But I know this is not what you are referring to. I hear what you say, but look at it from the Churches standpoint.That a Catholic is a Catholic is a Catholic forever once and always a Catholic. Instead of some Catholics liking to put labels on such as “supposed”. **Supposed what? ** Oh yeah Catholic.
Sorry it just irks me to no end nowadays how some Catholics like to do this. I’m not sure if it just makes them feel better to think they are a better Catholic than someone else or what?
You are a Catholic criticizing the Catholic Church. This is like me criticizing my mother and expect my father not to chastise me, it will not happen. I have had my but whipped by my dad, thanks dad, for disrespecting my mother. There is no difference here.
I agree calling someone a “supposed Catholic” is over the top though.
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