So I left...

  • Thread starter Thread starter ElizaCatherine
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

ElizaCatherine

Guest
I have been thinking of writing here for some time, but have been hesitant to do it. There are a number of reasons, but mostly it’s because of fear. Fear that someone will tell me that I am wrong, or that I am not handling things the right way. I already feel tremendous guilt over the situation. I am afraid that I have overreacted (even though I have been told by my therapist and others that I have not). I left my husband. I couldn’t take the constant criticism and belittling. I could no longer take the blame for everything that he felt was wrong. The walking on eggshells for what will be the next thing that is my fault, or the next thing that I haven’t done to his satisfaction, or did completely wrong. Sometimes, even feeling paralyzed to do anything for fear that it would be the wrong thing. So, after yet another fight that involved something that I wasn’t doing to his satisfaction, I packed as much as I could in my car and left.
In the meantime, I have been going to therapy. That actually started before I left. (I have asked him repeatedly over the years to go, so we could figure out what is wrong, and he flatly refused.) I am struggling nearly as much now as I was before I left. I feel tremendous guilt and sadness and anxiety over my decision. He calls and emails, and only on two occasions have I responded. A few days ago he showed up where I work to talk to me. It is possible that he has figured it out, but I am still suspicious. I am still afraid that he is trying to manipulate me, because he is calling my friends asking about me. His family leaves messages trying to convince me to talk to him. His actions are inconsistent. He had the sheriff serve me with divorce papers last week, but he’s been leaving messages and emailing telling me that he loves me and wants to work things out. It all just doesn’t make sense to me.
I have been told that everything that I have endured is considered abuse. I still sit and wonder if I have made things sound worse than they really were. I wonder if I just took things the wrong way. I wonder if I would have tried harder to do things the way he wanted them done if things would have been different. Maybe this is all part of how this stuff works, I just don’t know.
So, if you have experience with these sorts of things I would welcome your insight. If you are going to say cruel things about how I handled it, I’m not sure I want to hear it. I am not asking you to sugar coat things, but if you going to tell me I’m wrong, at least try to be kind. Please understand that this is extremely difficult and emotionally raw for me.
 
ElizaCatherine said:
I left my husband. I couldn’t take the constant criticism and belittling. I could no longer take the blame for everything that he felt was wrong. The walking on eggshells for what will be the next thing that is my fault, or the next thing that I haven’t done to his satisfaction, or did completely wrong. Sometimes, even feeling paralyzed to do anything for fear that it would be the wrong thing. So, after yet another fight that involved something that I wasn’t doing to his satisfaction, I packed as much as I could in my car and left.

It sounds like you just reached a point where you couldn’t put up with it anymore. Good for you for sticking up for yourself. It’s never a good thing to let someone have that much power over you. This guy sounds like an emotional abuser. They tend to suck the life out you…that’s how they keep control but demeaning the other person and demoralizing them.

In the meantime, I have been going to therapy. That actually started before I left. (I have asked him repeatedly over the years to go, so we could figure out what is wrong, and he flatly refused.) I am struggling nearly as much now as I was before I left. I feel tremendous guilt and sadness and anxiety over my decision.

Why are you feeling guilty?..you said yourself you asked him to go the therapy. He wouldn’t go. It sounds like you tried to make if work but he refuses to change. You had the courage to leave an abusive relationship before it could progress to an even worse phase. These things never get any better unless the other person is willing to put in the effort to change…it doesn’t sound like this is one of those cases.

He calls and emails, and only on two occasions have I responded. A few days ago he showed up where I work to talk to me. It is possible that he has figured it out, but I am still suspicious. I am still afraid that he is trying to manipulate me, because he is calling my friends asking about me. His family leaves messages trying to convince me to talk to him. His actions are inconsistent. He had the sheriff serve me with divorce papers last week, but he’s been leaving messages and emailing telling me that he loves me and wants to work things out. It all just doesn’t make sense to me.

He’s trying to get you back under his control. With abusers it’s all about control…not really the actual person. He’s using manipulation as his weapon of choice. In my opinion his family should stay out of it. Remember actions speak louder then words. He served you with divorce papers…sounds like he’s playing both ends of the field trying to win you back but then legally covering himself…trying to keep control of things. I’d get a lawyer and check out your rights first thing off.

I have been told that everything that I have endured is considered abuse. I still sit and wonder if I have made things sound worse than they really were. I wonder if I just took things the wrong way. I wonder if I would have tried harder to do things the way he wanted them done if things would have been different. Maybe this is all part of how this stuff works, I just don’t know.

I’ve done volunteer work with shelters for abused women, have been one and sadly know many women in abusive relationships the commonality is that all these women say to them just what you did the the paragraph above.
Click to expand...
 
He’s trying to get you back under his control. With abusers it’s all about control…not really the actual person. He’s using manipulation as his weapon of choice. In my opinion his family should stay out of it. Remember actions speak louder then words. He served you with divorce papers…sounds like he’s playing both ends of the field trying to win you back but then legally covering himself…trying to keep control of things. I’d get a lawyer and check out your rights first thing off.
Click to expand...
I completely agree! This man is an abuser and you were 100% to get out from under his control. Staying with him could have dangerous consequences. The fact that he is physically stalking you by showing up at your place of work is pretty scary. Please don’t give in and go back to him. The time right after a breakup is the hardest and most dangerous stage. Please continue to go to therapy and pray so you can heal from this and move on.
 
Have you communicated with him since he has started approaching you to talk? Or are you not talking to him at all? Also, you mention he has served you divorce papers, was that the first legal action, or have you initiated something else? Are there kids involved?
 
No one here should be telling you whether you handled things correctly or not. After all we have only your side of the issue, and only a small summary at that.

It sounds as though you needed real space in order to sort things out. There is really nothing wrong with this. Perhaps you husband also needs this to see just how much you do right that he has never given you credit for.

It is fine to be guided by your therapist in this, but I would also suggest, if you haven’t already done so, that you talk to your confessor about these things and possibly get hooked up with a councilor in the parish. The reason I mention this is because unless the therapist is also catholic (or at least Christian) they may not have as good an understanding of (or respect for) the spiritual ramifications of the split-up.

Other than that I think that Sierrah has already given some really fine feeback. In fact, given her work with abused women perhaps you two should talk a bit more privately…

Peace
James
 
In my experience, you gotta be careful with therapist. In the name of charity and trying to get a person through problems, many tend to put blame in the other spouse, without even hearing the other side.

I had to ended with a couple of therapist, that very quickly put all the blame on my wife and tried to convince me that it was all her fault. And these are supposedly catholic faith based therapists!! Just saying you have to be careful about who you are seeing, and make sure above all they are pro-family and truly wants to help solve marital issues, not help you move on and start over.
 
I got an attorney about a week after I left. I had talked about filing, but had not done it yet. I have kept my attorney informed about what’s going on.

Other than when he was here, I have only communicated with him twice. One of them was just a text asking him to please stop calling and texting me. It was about every 5 minutes at that point. I want him to get help and he tells me that he is starting today. So, I did send him an email today to encourage him with that appointment. He needs to get help whether we are together or not, and I want to do what I safely can to make sure that happens for him. I have been advised by my therapist not to communicate with him, because she is concerned that he will manipulate me. I understand where she is coming from with that, and I figured email was the safest way to go about it. Of course, he is pressing me to meet to talk. I won’t go. I told him that any other communication between us will require a mediator.

We do not have children, which I now think is a blessing.
 
Instead of a mediator (mediators usually will try to help you disolve your marriage in the best possible terms) would he willing to meet with you and a priest? I think you should not give up, you probably both need time apart, but you need to keep communicating and as soon as possible. As time goes by,if there’s no communication then you will both grow apart and make things even more difficult.

Sometimes is all a problem of perceptions, he probably thinks you are shutting him off so he tries harder to communicate with you to the point of over doing it, which in turn then makes you really shut him off. It’s good he is seeing a therapist (again, both be careful with who you choose, lots of them, even catholic ones are not marital therapists, they are divorce therapists that will tell you what YOU want to hear in order to help you move on). The sooner you two can start communicating and even better seeking help together (besides going on your own) the better. If anything, it will help you understand each other better, even if you don’t even end up together again.
 
I have talked to my confessor and my therapist is Catholic. I don’t feel like blame is being cast entirely on him. I think the concern is for my safety. She has said that communication needs to wait until he’s been getting some help for a while. Also, she’s made it quite clear that there are reasons why I have allowed some of this to happen too. I have to work through those things as well. I feel like our diocese has competent Catholics on their staff. I don’t feel like I am being pushed to stay in the marriage or dissolve it. I have also signed a release to allow the therapist and my confessor to talk about this together. I don’t feel like I have anything to hide from either of them and I feel like they understand the situation well. My confessor has spoken with my husband a few times since I left and agrees that there are issues that he needs help with.
 
ElizaCatherine said:
… I already feel tremendous guilt over the situation…
Click to expand...
I have learned something very valuable about guilt and shame in the last several years.
First off, know the difference. Guilt is the feeling that you have done something wrong, or that a contemplated course of action is immoral. Shame, OTOH, is the feeling that you are a bad person, that you are not acceptable.

Shame is the work of the devil. It is a lie. Jesus died for you, God loves you, and therefore, you have been given a dignity that cannot be taken away from you. You are acceptable. It is work to accept this, not only as it applies to us, but as it applies to others, that work is on-going for the vast majority of us, but it is work worth doing.

Guilt, OTOH, has its purposes, but it cannot serve its purpose unless you know what to do with it.

Guilt is like a smoke alarm. That’s all. It is an emotion that asks you to look at what you’ve done or what you’re going to do, and to ask yourself honestly if you need to repent. Therefore, when you feel guilt, ask yourself: Is there something I need to stop doing? Is there something I need to make amends for? Is there something I need to confess? Here is the key: Once you’ve started looking into the moral situation, it is OK to turn off the guilt. It is like getting someone to turn off the blaring smoke alarm while you attend to whatever the smoke is coming from. Even if there is a real fire, having that alarm blaring may not be the most helpful thing in getting the fire put out. Turning the guilt off or on does not get any fires put out, any more than putting anesthetic or salt into a wound heals it. I hope it goes without saying that once you know there is no fire, you can turn off the smoke alarm.

That is the only function of guilt. It is like physical pain. Even when it hangs on past the point where it is helpful, it is not something you “deserve” to go through. It is simply a way that are spiritual nature has of keeping us out of harm’s way (that is, sin’s way), just as physical pain keeps us out of physical harm’s way.

I will wager that you are now, paradoxically, bouncing between two sources of guilt:
one, guilt that you left (if you feel shame, you are ashamed that you are the kind of woman that would leave her husband)
two, guilt that you didn’t do it sooner, or that you allowed the offending behavior to continue without stopping it (if you feel shame, you are ashamed that you are the kind of woman an abuser can get away with abusing. I’ve got news for you: lions can pull down water buffaloes, and an able manipulator can pull down a woman who came into the relationship with very good self-esteem.)

You left. It was the right thing to do. Leaving, however, is so often the very wrong and the easy way out of a difficult but fixable marriage that your guilt is “calibrated” to go off when you leave. You have a smoke detector that is going off when it shouldn’t. It is going to take awhile to re-calibrate it.

Let us imagine this guilt has a calibration dial. OK, now you know you need to twirl that dial. Get ready for the possibility that you’re going to go through a period of turning it up too high one day, and too low the next. Don’t punish yourself over that. Do not worry if you seem both guilty and guilt-free at all the wrong times. Do your best to act in a moral manner, and realize that this state won’t last forever.

Hang in there. You’ll get it figured out. Keep up with the counselling, and you’ll come out the other side with many of your emotional detectors in far better calibration. Sometimes that takes a long time, sometimes not, but getting professional help is the closest thing to a “shortcut” that there is. You’ll go down fewer blind alleys. But you’re going to have to familiarize yourself with a new landscape, and that takes time.

As for your husband, remember that forgiveness and reconciliation and excusing the bad acts are not the same thing. You only have to let go of ill will over what he did to you–that is, forgive him. That may take some time. But do not expect yourself to excuse the bad acts. They don’t deserve an excuse. Do not expect yourself to reconcile. That takes two, which in this case means a change in your husband that is not realistic to expect. If reconciliation is going to happen, that is far, far down the road. If a miracle were to occur, he has a lot of travelling to do before showing you that land. Don’t hold your breath waiting for it. For now, file that possibility under “absolutely no way not going to happen impossible”, and put your life back together.
 
ElizaCatherine said:
I have talked to my confessor and my therapist is Catholic. I don’t feel like blame is being cast entirely on him. I think the concern is for my safety. She has said that communication needs to wait until he’s been getting some help for a while. Also, she’s made it quite clear that there are reasons why I have allowed some of this to happen too. I have to work through those things as well. I feel like our diocese has competent Catholics on their staff. I don’t feel like I am being pushed to stay in the marriage or dissolve it. I have also signed a release to allow the therapist and my confessor to talk about this together. I don’t feel like I have anything to hide from either of them and I feel like they understand the situation well. My confessor has spoken with my husband a few times since I left and agrees that there are issues that he needs help with.
Click to expand...
This sounds VERY hopeful and helpful. You are fortunate to have such a good support system.

Peace
James
 
EasterJoy, I disagree with your last paragraph. We also don’t know his side of the story, and there’s always two sides.

I disagree because they are married, and until proven otherwise is a valid marriage. Do they need help? Seems like they do. Do they need to be apart? Based on what she says, probably they do. Do they have to work on their own issues? We all do 🙂 But, every attempt needs to be done to salvage the marriage, so I wouldn’t recommend to file it as “impossible, is not going to happen” for now. On the contrary, I think every step needs to be taken to save the marriage. I do agree that it takes two, and both have to have a will to fight to save it. And is a two front war, 1 front is to work on your own issues and the 2nd front is the marriage. You can’t win the war by giving up on 1 of the fronts. Time is important, and the sooner they can start communicating (communication is most likely the issue here, or lack thereof) the better off both will be.

I find it sad that in our society we are quick to give up on our marriages. What if St. Monica had given up on hers? 🙂

And elizabeth, even in good diocesis (mine is probably one of the most orthodox in the US) a lot of catholic marital therapist are are divorce therapist. But it does sound that you are seeking the truth and are open to communicate with your husband, let’s hope he is willing to talk to your confessor and/or therapist and get started.
 
All–Thank you. Part of the purpose for posting here is that many of the people I am around are not Catholic. They do not have a clear understanding of Catholic teaching and are quick to dismiss my concerns about this. They are supportive of my decision to leave, but are not inclined to think there is any other possible outcome than divorce. I realize that may very well be the best outcome, but I don’t want to make any decision without feeling like I’ve exhausted all possiblities. I realize my desire to make sure I am really doing the right thing may slow down the process, but I think that is OK.

EasterJoy–thank you for your insights to guilt and shame. I actually think I have both going on right now. I am trying to work through them, but it is hard to pull everything apart and examine it without the emotions.
 
orlh said:
EasterJoy, I disagree with your last paragraph. We also don’t know his side of the story, and there’s always two sides.

I disagree because they are married, and until proven otherwise is a valid marriage. Do they need help? Seems like they do. Do they need to be apart? Based on what she says, probably they do. Do they have to work on their own issues? We all do 🙂 But, every attempt needs to be done to salvage the marriage, so I wouldn’t recommend to file it as “impossible, is not going to happen” for now. On the contrary, I think every step needs to be taken to save the marriage. I do agree that it takes two, and both have to have a will to fight to save it. And is a two front war, 1 front is to work on your own issues and the 2nd front is the marriage. You can’t win the war by giving up on 1 of the fronts. Time is important, and the sooner they can start communicating (communication is most likely the issue here, or lack thereof) the better off both will be.

I find it sad that in our society we are quick to give up on our marriages. What if St. Monica had given up on hers? 🙂

And elizabeth, even in good diocesis (mine is probably one of the most orthodox in the US) a lot of catholic marital therapist are are divorce therapist. But it does sound that you are seeking the truth and are open to communicate with your husband, let’s hope he is willing to talk to your confessor and/or therapist and get started.
Click to expand...
Let me clarify:
She has endured bad acts. Abuse. They don’t deserve to be excused. That is not what forgiveness means.

I see I need to clarify what I mean by “absolutely no way not going to happen impossible”. I don’t mean her marriage is over, necessarily. I mean that she should not buy the “come back, I’ll be better” line. He needs to be better, then she can think about coming back. That is going to take a lot of joint therapy (or the equivalent) to demonstrate, and he’s not signed on for a minute of that yet. Her immediate return ought not be even on the table.

By referring to the change he needs to make as a miracle, I mean that it is extremely rare for someone who habitually belittles his wife to the point described, who blames her and makes excuses for himself, is going to change that habit. I will take it back if we are talking about isolated incidents for which he apologized and made no excuses, if he just occasionally falls back into scripts he heard growing up but that are not normally part of how he is, but I don’t think that is what she’s describing. It could be, though. That’s why she has a therapist, to ask these questions.

If she is describing someone who has a manipulative personality, then it is extremely unlikely that he’s going to change. The burden is on him to demonstrate that he has another habitual way of doing things. What she’s going to get instead is entreaties from him that *she *do part of the work of bringing him back. I’m not just saying that it would be unfair for him to use guilt to get her back to hazard another day on the old firing range of his abusive habits. I mean that it just won’t work. A return to the status quo will not give him reason enough to change. If there is no reason to change, a big reason, there will be no change. If he has a sociopathic personality (and you would be astonished to know how many people do), then that change is extremely unlikely to happen, reason or no reason. She’d be returning to abuse which has no chance of ever changing. That’s not a valid marriage, but even if it were, the Church wouldn’t require her to live in it. She deserves to live in peace.

If the marriage is going to survive, he needs to know that the abusive behavior must stop, period, not as evidenced by promises, but as evidenced by action, and that she is not going to even *consider *coming back until it is clear that this has happened. Yet I would bet my last dollar that he will try to make her feel guilty for not “giving him another chance.” She absolutely must not let him do that, if there is any hope of coming out of this with a healthy marriage.

We are not talking about two people with normal marital problems. This is a mental health issue. It is as serious as physical abuse, and that is not a situation of “it takes two to tango.” She should know that she is right to see through and deny the guilt trips he is going to throw at her to cloud that. She needs to stand up for clear evidence that she can realistically expect to return to an abuse-free home, or else not go home at all. She also needs to know very clearly that if she insists he change before her return and he tells her that she is throwing away their marriage, the guilt belongs on him, not her. Yet if he is a sociopath, he is incapable of doing anything but pretending guilt. He would be an expert at using it on others, though.

IOW, she is in a lot of emotional danger when she’s around him. She needs to be ready.

Speaking of…OP, if you have not read “The Sociopath Next Door”, by Martha Stout, you may want to read it. Ask your therapist about that, though. You have a professional taking care of you. Let the professional do this job.
 
I see everyone dancing around the intricacies of these situations. Just another example of how tough “internet councilling” can be.

One thing that needs to be recognized at this point is that this seperation be “permanent” until the issues are truly and fully worked out.
Each must discover and deal with their own issues and then, at the appropriate times, interact on the issues and causes of the seperation. This all comes under the heading of counciling.
Once this is achieved, or at least largely achieved, then the couple really should re-enter courtship. To fall in Love with each other again. Only then can they both fully and faithfully recommit to the marriage.

If there is one piece of advice I would give, it is to avoid at all costs any “band-aid” fixes. Take the time to really and truly find out if this is salvageable. Make it an honest and prayerful effort.

Peace
James
 
ElizaCatherine said:
I have talked to my confessor and my therapist is Catholic. I don’t feel like blame is being cast entirely on him. I think the concern is for my safety. She has said that communication needs to wait until he’s been getting some help for a while. Also, she’s made it quite clear that there are reasons why I have allowed some of this to happen too. I have to work through those things as well. I feel like our diocese has competent Catholics on their staff. I don’t feel like I am being pushed to stay in the marriage or dissolve it. I have also signed a release to allow the therapist and my confessor to talk about this together. I don’t feel like I have anything to hide from either of them and I feel like they understand the situation well. My confessor has spoken with my husband a few times since I left and agrees that there are issues that he needs help with.
Click to expand...
I’m proud of you. Sounds like you have a handle on the problem and are already getting good advice. Just don’t fall victim to the blame game. I’ll pray for your family. 👍
 
It sounds like you have everyone working together very well - if he won’t come to therapy - then I hate to say it - it takes two to make a marriage better or to save it. Someone posted this on these forums and it really helped me and it really has been a gift from God (OK just the USCCB) when I have needed it and questioned my own decisions:

When I Call For Help
 
I didn’t read the responses from anyone else… but I say good for you. Don’t let anyone treat you that way. Cling to Christ, he gives us so much strength- His grace truly is sufficient (2 Cor 12:9) Unless your husband can “love you as Christ loved the Church” (eph 5:25), then you should not get back with him. I will pray for you, God bless you.

One other thing, it makes me sad to see so much guilt in your post. Those feelings are not of the Lord. I’m sure it took so much courage to remove yourself from that situation. I am proud of you.
 
ElizaCatherine said:
I have been thinking of writing here for some time, but have been hesitant to do it. There are a number of reasons, but mostly it’s because of fear. Fear that someone will tell me that I am wrong, or that I am not handling things the right way. I already feel tremendous guilt over the situation. I am afraid that I have overreacted (even though I have been told by my therapist and others that I have not). I left my husband. I couldn’t take the constant criticism and belittling. I could no longer take the blame for everything that he felt was wrong. The walking on eggshells for what will be the next thing that is my fault, or the next thing that I haven’t done to his satisfaction, or did completely wrong. Sometimes, even feeling paralyzed to do anything for fear that it would be the wrong thing. So, after yet another fight that involved something that I wasn’t doing to his satisfaction, I packed as much as I could in my car and left.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you did the right thing. 🙂

It’s going to take you a long time to heal. Give yourself the time you need, and be gentle with yourself. Your self-confidence has taken a severe beating. It’s going to take you a while before you feel like the competent, capable, lovable person that you really are. (And sometimes, there is going to be that little “demon” inside you that messes everything up on you and then says to you “See? He was right! You are completely incapable of taking care of yourself!” If (when!) that happens, simply pick yourself up, tell that little demon, “I am allowed to make mistakes sometimes - it doesn’t make me incompetent,” and then carry on. 🙂
In the meantime, I have been going to therapy. That actually started before I left. (I have asked him repeatedly over the years to go, so we could figure out what is wrong, and he flatly refused.) I am struggling nearly as much now as I was before I left. I feel tremendous guilt and sadness and anxiety over my decision. He calls and emails, and only on two occasions have I responded. A few days ago he showed up where I work to talk to me. It is possible that he has figured it out, but I am still suspicious. I am still afraid that he is trying to manipulate me, because he is calling my friends asking about me. His family leaves messages trying to convince me to talk to him. His actions are inconsistent. He had the sheriff serve me with divorce papers last week, but he’s been leaving messages and emailing telling me that he loves me and wants to work things out. It all just doesn’t make sense to me.
Click to expand...
It’s probably best to cut off all communication with him, for right now. This might mean changing your phone number, and not communicating with friends of yours who are also friends with him. You might have to go to a different parish for Mass. You might also have to change your hours at work, to arrive at a different time and leave at a different time, so that he can’t waylay you. Or else just watch carefully, and then use a different door to go out or to go in than he is expecting.
I have been told that everything that I have endured is considered abuse.
Click to expand...
This is true. It’s emotional and psychological abuse. The purpose of this kind of abuse is to get control over the person and make them do everything a certain “right” way. Abusers are typically very insecure, and trying to recreate a secure environment. They feel very threatened when other people have their own ideas and want to do things their own way, so they want to shut down other people’s ability to do that, by undermining their self-confidence and making them afraid, in order to control the people, so as to control the environment.
 
It sounds to me like you were married to a narcissist. I hope you can let go of any guilt you feel, get on with your life and be happy. When the time comes, I’m almost certain you will be able to get an annulment. Maybe you could even find a support group for separated and divorced people in your diocese. Peace be with you!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top