So if Sola Scriptura is a true doctrine, then...

[jabelltulsa]

It’s a BIG ISSUE but it really boils down, when you ask us “how does one resolve disagreements about what it says?”, we are wise only to respond with another question: “How do we know that this is something about which we must resolve disagreement?”

Because if it is something about which there can be liberty, then there should be liberty.

Well done. You have captured the essence of the difference of most protestants and Catholics. This post was very well put together. Thanks for that.

Help me further to understand something: Is there a passage that states that we can take liberty on issues that are a bit cloudy?

Also, you said

“It’s okay to be wrong, He’ll straighten us out.”

When will He set us right? Does that happen here, or in the Hereafter?

 

[Thaddeus]

He’ll straighten us out? Didn’t Jesus say that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide us in truth? And doesn’t the Holy Spirit reside within the Church that Jesus Himself set up? It certainly doesn’t reside with each and every believer with a Bible, because believers believe in opposite things - infant baptism vs. adult baptism, no blood transfusions vs. doctors are necessary, snake handlers, etc. No, the Holy Spirit is what straightens out poor doctrine, like adding and subtracting from the Bible, like Luther did.

 

[Steadfast]

He’ll straighten us out? Didn’t Jesus say that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide us in truth? And doesn’t the Holy Spirit reside within the Church that Jesus Himself set up? It certainly doesn’t reside with each and every believer with a Bible, because believers believe in opposite things - infant baptism vs. adult baptism, no blood transfusions vs. doctors are necessary, snake handlers, etc. No, the Holy Spirit is what straightens out poor doctrine, like adding and subtracting from the Bible, like Luther did.

Yes, He did say that, and the Holy Spirit is guiding us into all truth. This is deeply eschatological. Just as revelation is progressive so is our apprehension of it.

A person can be in a right relationship with God and be wrong about a great number of things. The point is not to be immediately and irrevocably correct so much as to remain humbly open to growth and to the Spirit’s leading.

There are theological Rubicons of course. There are dogmas of the faith.

I believe in the Trinity though there is no explicit mention of it in the Bible.

Does this mean that Sola Scritpura is wrong?

No, all it means is that the doctrine that God is triune is something that had to be understood from Scripture, not explicitly read in it. I believe that the only way to make sense of the God of the Bible is to understand Him to be a Trinity just as Nicaea concluded.

This is a dogma. It won’t change because it is in the Bible (again, not explicitly stated) but the Bible does teach that the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God and Jesus is God and yet, it also teaches that God is One.

Any understanding of this which would deny the doctrine of the Trinity as we have it (modalism, tritheism, etc.) would violate some clear teaching about God which we can find in the Bible.

The Nicene fathers did a superb job of interpreting the Bible and giving us a definition during a time when all this was being questioned.

But this does not mean that the same solution (especially in a divided church) can or ought to be applied to every question.

 

[Thaddeus]

So does Joe Sixpack who just found Jesus and picked up a bible and reads John 6 have the correct interpretation of John 6:53? How about Colossians 1:24? And why would you want to interpret those hard to understand verses yourself, when you have some 1600 years of biblical scholarship by the saints to fall back on? Do people who study electrical engineering or quantum physics just buy the books and figure it out for themselves, or do they need a professor to explain it to them?

No, sola scriptura is a man made tradition of the 16th century. And we all know what the bible says about the traditions of man…

 

[Metaron]

So does Joe Sixpack who just found Jesus and picked up a bible and reads John 6 have the correct interpretation of John 6:53? How about Colossians 1:24? And why would you want to interpret those hard to understand verses yourself, when you have some 1600 years of biblical scholarship by the saints to fall back on? Do people who study electrical engineering or quantum physics just buy the books and figure it out for themselves, or do they need a professor to explain it to them?

No, sola scriptura is a man made tradition of the 16th century. And we all know what the bible says about the traditions of man…

Ding-ding-ding!!! Score 1 goes to Thaddeus! Way to go.

 

[Metaron]

Ah, I’m so glad that we Roman Catholics, Orthodox, and Anglicans have the Early Church Fathers and Ecumenical Councils. They make believing in Catholicism over Protestantism so easy…

 

[AllSaints1631]

Ah, I’m so glad that we Roman Catholics, Orthodox, and Anglicans have the Early Church Fathers and Ecumenical Councils. They make believing in Catholicism over Protestantism so easy…

I must say it, you’re right!

 

[AllSaints1631]

Huh? Wasn’t Luther’s main doctrines Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia? I’m pretty sure ELCA have Sola Scriptura. By the way, don’t let the Episcopalians fool you; Almost all the other Anglican Churches are conservative, unlike the Episcopal Church. A lot of them have Apostolic Succession, too.

I agree.

 

[Steadfast]

As much as I don’t really care for “me toos”, it needs to be noted that one of the first and greatest patristic scholars of the modern age was the Lutheran Martin Chemnitz.

 

[Metaron]

As much as I don’t really care for “me toos”, it needs to be noted that one of the first and greatest patristic scholars of the modern age was the Lutheran Martin Chemnitz.

Oh? I thought it was Bishop Sheen. At any rate, Steadfast, could you do me a favour? I’m trying to lead my father into a more historical direction in his faith (to the Catholic Church, to be quite frank) but he agreed to try out a Lutheran Church. We went there, and he liked it, and my mom loved it, but… they couldn’t handle the paedobaptism or the Real Presence doctrine. So pray for him, ok? This was a LC-MS, so it’s ok… I just hope he’ll listen…

 

[Steadfast]

Oh? I thought it was Bishop Sheen. At any rate, Steadfast, could you do me a favour? I’m trying to lead my father into a more historical direction in his faith (to the Catholic Church, to be quite frank) but he agreed to try out a Lutheran Church. We went there, and he liked it, and my mom loved it, but… they couldn’t handle the paedobaptism or the Real Presence doctrine. So pray for him, ok? This was a LC-MS, so it’s ok… I just hope he’ll listen…

Of course.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

As you know, I am an Ahmadi a peaceful Muslim. I respect your religion.

We understand from Quran/Islam/Muhammad that Sola Scriptura is not sufficient for guidance of a people, it must be accompanied by Sunnah ( **the acts **of the Prophet) and Hadith ( **the sayings ******of the Prophet), but these must be interpreted within the purview of the Scripture, never against it.

Quran

[4:153] And those who believe in Allah and in all his Messengers and make no distinction between any of them, to such He will soon give their rewards. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[4:154] The people of the Book ask thee to bring down upon them a Book from heaven. They asked Moses a greater thing than this. They said, ‘Show us Allah openly.’ Thereupon a destructive punishment overtook them because of their transgression. Then they took the calf for worship after clear Signs had come to them, but We pardoned even that. And We gave Moses a manifest authority.
[4:155] And We raised high above them the Mount while making a covenant with them, and We said to them, ‘Enter the gate submissively,’ and We said to them, ‘Transgress not in the matter of the Sabbath.’ And We took from them a firm covenant.
[4:156] So, for their breaking the covenant, and their denial of the Signs of Allah, and their seeking to slay the Prophets unjustly, and their saying: ‘Our hearts are wrapped up in covers,’ - nay, but Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not but little -

[17:91] And they say, 'We will not believe in thee until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth;
[17:92] 'Or, thou have a garden of date-palms and vines and cause streams to gush forth in the midst thereof in abundance;
[17:93] 'Or, thou cause the heaven to fall upon us in pieces, as thou hast claimed, or, thou bring Allah and the angels before us face to face;
[17:94] ‘Or, thou have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; **and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a Book that we can read.’ Say, ‘Holy is my Lord! I am but a mortal sent as a Messenger.’ **[17:95] And nothing prevents people from believing when the guidance comes to them save that they say, ‘Has Allah sent a man like us as a Messenger?’
[17:96] Say, ‘Had there been in the earth angels walking about in peace and quiet, We would have certainly sent down to them from heaven an angel as a Messenger.’
[17:97] Say, ‘Sufficient is Allah for a Witness between me and you; surely, He knows and sees His servants full well.’
Unquote

That is what I understand.

Thanks