So I'm curious some denominations teach that "accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior" and you will be saved?

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ltwin said:
As George Whitefield put it: “I saw regenerate souls among the Baptists, among the Presbyterians, among the Independents, and among the Church [of England] folks–all children of God, and yet all born again in a different way of worship: and who can tell which is the most evangelical?”
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True, dat.

But that doesn’t answer my question regarding inflexibility and flexibility vis a vis doctrine/worship/practices.

Who decides when it is time to be inflexible and when flexibility is warranted.
 
PRmerger said:
True, dat.

But that doesn’t answer my question regarding inflexibility and flexibility vis a vis doctrine/worship/practices.

Who decides when it is time to be inflexible and when flexibility is warranted.
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It’s not about deciding. Obviously, Pentecostals will do what Pentecostals will do. Baptists will do what Baptists will do. As will Presbyterians and so on and so on in our own respective communities. But because we recognize each other as brothers and sisters in Christ who have been born again we can be flexible in worship and fellowship when we are together.

I can join with the local Baptists or Presbyterians in worship, not because we agree completely but because we share a common core evangelical faith.
 
Jon_S said:
It doesn’t really cut both ways since you say a tenant of your faith is sola Scriptura.

We don’t.

We also believe that the creation of the list of the New Testament books was guided by the Holy Spirit not fallible men.

I am actually surprised to hear you infer the New Testament is just a collection of writings assembled by fallible men without the Holy Spirit.
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But where did I say that the compilers of the canonical New Testament were not guided in their work by the Holy Spirit? They recognized the divine authority in the NT writings, but did not themselves write them. Sorry but I just don’t extend the God-breathedness of Scripture to papal bulls and encyclicals, the CCC, etc. Nor do I extend it to the writings of Luther or John Macarthur or Jonathan Edwards. Scripture on the one hand, and post-Apostolic clerical or pastoral or theological writings on the other, are two entirely different things.
 
Faithdancer said:
… For example, I recognize the divine inspiration of Scripture, yet I do not claim divine inspiration for myself. I believe that that kind of divine inspiration went out of this world when the Apostle John died, given the generally held assumption that he was the last Apostle.
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Really? You’re a Christian? Then how is it you came to know Christ?
 
ltwin said:
It’s not about deciding. Obviously, Pentecostals will do what Pentecostals will do. Baptists will do what Baptists will do. As will Presbyterians and so on and so on in our own respective communities. But because we recognize each other as brothers and sisters in Christ who have been born again we can be flexible in worship and fellowship when we are together.

I can join with the local Baptists or Presbyterians in worship, not because we agree completely but because we share a common core evangelical faith.
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This has been my experience as well, ltwin. Unfortunately those who feel compelled to prove that Protestants are “not Christian” or “less Christian” consistently try to use the number of Protestant denominations as some sort of proof positive. As I’ve posted elsewhere, that’s a spurious argument, since it is based on an opinion that monolithicity is superior to unity in diversity. I won’t even go into whether or not the Roman Catholic Church is truly monolithic; it’s essentially irrelevant.
 
Faithdancer said:
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Sorry but I just don’t extend the God-breathedness of Scripture to papal bulls and encyclicals, the CCC, etc. Nor do I extend it to the writings of Luther or John Macarthur or Jonathan Edwards.
…
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I am completely dumb-founded by your theology. You’re a Protestant, and you don’t believe Martin Luther was guided by the Holy Spirit? Does this mean you don’t accept the Protestant canon?
 
Faithdancer said:
But where did I say that the compilers of the canonical New Testament were not guided in their work by the Holy Spirit?
…
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I’m really confused – do you believe they were guided by the Holy Spirit, or don’t you?
 
ltwin said:
It’s not about deciding. Obviously, Pentecostals will do what Pentecostals will do. Baptists will do what Baptists will do. As will Presbyterians and so on and so on in our own respective communities. But because we recognize each other as brothers and sisters in Christ who have been born again we can be flexible in worship and fellowship when we are together.

I can join with the local Baptists or Presbyterians in worship, not because we agree completely but because we share a common core evangelical faith.
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But you would not do the same with the Mormons right? What about Seventh Day Adventists? David Caresh’s group?

Who decides and what gives them the right to.
 
Faithdancer said:
But where did I say that the compilers of the canonical New Testament were not guided in their work by the Holy Spirit? They recognized the divine authority in the NT writings, but did not themselves write them. Sorry but I just don’t extend the God-breathedness of Scripture to papal bulls and encyclicals, the CCC, etc. Nor do I extend it to the writings of Luther or John Macarthur or Jonathan Edwards. Scripture on the one hand, and post-Apostolic clerical or pastoral or theological writings on the other, are two entirely different things.
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The table of contents of the Bible is a " post-Apostolic clerical or pastoral or theological writing"

So how can you possibly accept it.
 
Jon_S said:
The table of contents of the Bible is a " post-Apostolic clerical or pastoral or theological writing"

So how can you possibly accept it.
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LOL you’re really splitting hairs now, John. Do you think they got they order wrong? 🙂 Anyway, seriously, who wrote the table of contents? What I mean is, did they call themselves “Roman Catholic” or “Christians?”
 
Jon_S said:
But you would not do the same with the Mormons right?
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Well, since Mormons aren’t Christians it would be wrong to worship with them. Evangelical fellowship rests on sharing an evangelical understanding of the gospel.
Jon_S said:
What about Seventh Day Adventists?
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I actually don’t know enough about them to say one way or another. I know they have some problematic teachings, but I’m don’t know how unorthodox they are. Not even sure if they have an “evangelical” wing or party in their church in any case.
Jon_S said:
David Caresh’s group?
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Those aren’t evangelicals; they’re a cult.
Jon_S said:
Who decides and what gives them the right to.
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Evangelicals have this uncanny ability to recognize other evangelicals. At the end of the day, it comes down to individuals at the personal level, congregations at the congregational level and church bodies at the church-wide level agreeing that they share the same gospel as evangelicals.
 
stewstew03 said:
Where’s the ad hominem? It’s a serious question. Your theology, at least expressed here, has left no room for the Holy Spirit.
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I don’t equate the God-breathed writings of Holy Scripture with anything that has been written since. Martin Luther did not write Holy Scripture, and neither did Pope John Paul II.
 
Faithdancer said:
I don’t equate the God-breathed writings of Holy Scripture with anything that has been written since. Martin Luther did not write Holy Scripture, and neither did Pope John Paul II.
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Yes, but… how do you KNOW they are God-breathed? And, further, how do you know when someone is guided by the Holy Spirit?
 
ltwin said:
It’s not about deciding. Obviously, Pentecostals will do what Pentecostals will do. Baptists will do what Baptists will do. As will Presbyterians and so on and so on in our own respective communities. But because we recognize each other as brothers and sisters in Christ who have been born again we can be flexible in worship and fellowship when we are together.
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Of course it’s about deciding.

Unless you think it’s ok for this group to profess that the Epistles of St. Paul are not inspired? lasttrumpetministries.org/

Unless you believe that you can worship with this group, which ate grass because they were told by their pastor that this was a Biblical command to bring them closer to God?



So, yes. You do decide when it’s time to be inflexible.
I can join with the local Baptists or Presbyterians in worship, not because we agree completely but because we share a common core evangelical faith.
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With all due respect, you can join them and amiably worship together…until you start talking about doctrine.

Then, not so much anymore.
 
ltwin said:
Well, since Mormons aren’t Christians it would be wrong to worship with them. Evangelical fellowship rests on sharing an evangelical understanding of the gospel.

I actually don’t know enough about them to say one way or another. I know they have some problematic teachings, but I’m don’t know how unorthodox they are. Not even sure if they have an “evangelical” wing or party in their church in any case.

Those aren’t evangelicals; they’re a cult.

Evangelicals have this uncanny ability to recognize other evangelicals. At the end of the day, it comes down to individuals at the personal level, congregations at the congregational level and church bodies at the church-wide level agreeing that they share the same gospel as evangelicals.
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Ok, so what about ELCA Lutherans, PCUSA Presbyterians, Epicopalians, United Methodists? IOW “Mainline Protestants,” would you worship with them? Do you consider them Christians?
 
Faithdancer said:
Sorry but I just don’t extend the God-breathedness of Scripture to papal bulls and encyclicals, the CCC, etc.
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Didn’t you say at one time that you had studied something like a dozen Masters-level classes in Catholicism?

I find it hard to believe that you could have done that yet profess something as absurd as the above.

You ought to have recalled from all of these Masters-level courses that the CC does not extend God-breathedness to papal bulls, encyclicals and the CC.

That is reserved for Sacred Scripture only
 
PRmerger said:
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With all due respect, you can join them and amiably worship together…until you start talking about doctrine.

Then, not so much anymore.
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(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

[no disrespect toward Itwin intended]
 
Faithdancer said:
LOL you’re really splitting hairs now, John. Do you think they got they order wrong? 🙂 Anyway, seriously, who wrote the table of contents? What I mean is, did they call themselves “Roman Catholic” or “Christians?”
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I am not splitting hairs at all. I think you haven’t thought this through.

The Bible as you know it is a collection of books and letters. The early church did not have the same books at every church let alone every individual.

The Magesterium of the church, all the bishops of the world assembled and formed a list of what could be read in church. What books of the many out there were truly inspired by God. What books were scripture.

Why on earth would you accept the opinions of these 4th century men?

Not to mention The Protestant Bible you hold is different than the one these men compiled and the church held for over a thousand years. Your tradition follows Luthers opinion, why?
 
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