So I'm curious some denominations teach that "accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior" and you will be saved?

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What do I believe Baptism to be?

What do I believe the Eucharist to be?

Won’t say.

What I will say, and this just my opinion, is that I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be. Does this make me a heretic? I don’t think it does but I’m sure others will say otherwise.

Ed
 
What do I believe Baptism to be?

What do I believe the Eucharist to be?

Won’t say.

What I will say, and this just my opinion, is that I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be. Does this make me a heretic? I don’t think it does but I’m sure others will say otherwise.

Ed
The real question is, “What does God believe them to be”. He has one thing in mind, the one truth.

We should seek that one truth and not be satisfied with men’s opinions. That’s why I believe the truth is found in scripture as read by the tradition of the church.

If the early church fathers writing and living alongside the New Testament apostles and their writings believed in the real presence and necessity of baptism I will too.
 
What do I believe Baptism to be?

What do I believe the Eucharist to be?

Won’t say.

What I will say, and this just my opinion, is that I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be. Does this make me a heretic? I don’t think it does but I’m sure others will say otherwise.

Ed
So… basically you’re just making a comment that God gave us free will…?
 
What I will say, and this just my opinion, is that I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be. Does this make me a heretic? I don’t think it does but I’m sure others will say otherwise.

Ed
Didn’t I see this exact post on another thread? If it doesn’t really matter what we believe then what is the point in believing anything?
 
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edkw55:
Does this make me a heretic? I don’t think it does but I’m sure others will say otherwise.

Ed
I don’t think so. You appear to be well within the bounds of orthodoxy to me.
 
What do I believe Baptism to be?

What do I believe the Eucharist to be?

Won’t say.

What I will say, and this just my opinion, is that I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be. Does this make me a heretic? I don’t think it does but I’m sure others will say otherwise.

Ed
I am not going to call you a heretic and I’m quite doubtful anyone here will!

Your question coupled with Southbound saying “you seem well within the bounds of orthodoxy” made me think of a question for you.

What Biblical support would you give for your position that God gives us some freedom on what we believe baptism and the Eucharist to be?
 
When it comes to the reception of the Eucharist, one must fully believe, declaring ‘Amen’ before receiving. Otherwise one is committing grave sin.

Many American Catholics have lost faith in Christ present in the Eucharist. Some think He is there about 5 minutes.

My bishop spoke to us a few months ago about Catholicism 101 that he took for his first seminary class. The teacher said if one person states he is Catholic, believes in 99% of Catholic teaching regarding the deposit of faith in Jesus Christ, but dissents from one percent, then he is not Catholic.

What he means is that we are not little gods deciding who and what and how much we want to believe in…when it comes to Truth of Who God is.

We either accept Him as His children in His fullness or not. A true Catholic believes and affirms all the teachings of Christ as well as obedience to the norms and rubrics protecting the knowledge and presence of God Who remains among us.

It is a sin against Canon Law to baptize without full consent, babies included. Parents must give consent, but Pope Francis is considering removing that ban.
 
When it comes to the reception of the Eucharist, one must fully believe, declaring ‘Amen’ before receiving. Otherwise one is committing grave sin.

Many American Catholics have lost faith in Christ present in the Eucharist. Some think He is there about 5 minutes.

My bishop spoke to us a few months ago about Catholicism 101 that he took for his first seminary class. The teacher said if one person states he is Catholic, believes in 99% of Catholic teaching regarding the deposit of faith in Jesus Christ, but dissents from one percent, then he is not Catholic.

What he means is that we are not little gods deciding who and what and how much we want to believe in…when it comes to Truth of Who God is.

We either accept Him as His children in His fullness or not. A true Catholic believes and affirms all the teachings of Christ as well as obedience to the norms and rubrics protecting the knowledge and presence of God Who remains among us.

It is a sin against Canon Law to baptize without full consent, babies included. Parents must give consent, but Pope Francis is considering removing that ban.
I think regarding Pope Francis and baptism you are confusing consent with assent.

Consent must be given, parents must commit to raise their kids Catholic. This does not mean that parents must be perfect practitioners.
 
I don’t think so. You appear to be well within the bounds of orthodoxy to me.
To say that it matters not what one believes is well within the bounds of Orthodoxy? Orthodoxy according to who?

To be orthodox means to follow doctrines and traditions of a faith to the tee, not to make it up as you go along according to one’s private judgment. What Ed described is the exact opposite of “orthodox”. :rolleyes:
 
From talking to numerous posters who have been banned for doing that.
**Or, better yet, it could be that you’re a banned poster who circumvented and is now re-banned.
Sorry for the interruption, carry on. **
 
Does this make me a heretic? I don’t think it does but I’m sure others will say otherwise.

Ed
You can’t be a heretic unless you are Catholic.

But you can certainly be professing heresy.

Incidentally, we Catholics do not call anyone a heretic unless the Church has deemed such person a heretic.
 
Thanks, Jon S…parents give their assent to have child baptized…who knows what will happen now with P Francis because baptism incorporates one into the mystical Body of Christ and gives us strength of grace to have faith.

People today need all the help they can get.

Likewise I cannot help but believe the Lord hears our prayers and sees the scope of our intentions. St. Paul considered those who come to faith out in the future would be blessed for believing living so far out from the great Event of Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection.
 
South Bound;12082613]
You guys have a really hard time grasping the fact that I don’t care what you choose to belief. I’m not Catholic. What Catholics want to believe is strictly between them and other Catholics. I’m not trying to argue that you’re wrong or that I’m right.
FYI it is the prayer of many Catholics that we share our True Catholic faith with those who have been baptized Catholics but never practiced or understood their Catholic faith and learned a false interpretation of our True Catholic faith from non-Catholics, who are known to teach an anti-Catholic agenda from their pulpits, which have deceived many ignorant Catholics and placed a false stereotype of Catholicism to non-Catholic communities. This has taken place for centuries now in the West.

This type of engagement between non-Catholics who pretend to know what Catholics believe find a contradiction here when presented with True Catholicism, that unconsciously places their non-Catholic pastors and leaders as deceivers of Catholicism, which many non-Catholics find this type of dialogue as offensive, because it corrects those who have been misinformed by their pastors and leaders about Catholicism.

In regards to the OP, the non-Catholic profession (altar call) of faith by itself is not a biblical practice, it is a late new invention by men. The biblical practice of a profession of faith is always done with baptism in regards to salvation.

From your posts it appears you still have not grasped the understanding of the biblical Sacrament of baptism of Jesus presence who saves. A persons confession does not save himself. Man’s word can never save himself only the Word of God Himself who has revealed that No one can enter nor see the Kingdom of God without being born of Water and Spirit (John 3:3-7).

The Master has spoken this revelation and the Catholic Church for 2000 years has always followed them and practiced the revelations of God unchanged.

Non-Catholic Christians look to other scriptures removing them from the context of which Jesus reveals and teaches about baptism in order to support their new wind of doctrine by men, that is never heard of or practiced in all of Christendom until after the 17th century.

It is this main point of scripture interpretation I bring to your attention. Which Catholics have a 2000 year old history unchanged of scripture interpretation of salvation through the Sacrament of Baptism. Which is supported by Sacred Scripture, Sacred Apostolic Tradition and the teachings of the Apostles and their apostolic successors.

When you and other non-Catholics present a new and late interpretation of scripture with no support of history, or authority to interpret scripture in diverse ways which Protestantism continues to do today. Which neglects the biblical practices placed in stone by Jesus and the Apostles in baptism.

cont.
 
cont;
I’m here to answer questions about Protestantism, since there seems to be so much confusion and lack of knowledge about what we believe. I’m not here to proselytize, not here to promote doctrines contrary to Catholicism, not here to do anything but explain our beliefs.
For the record, those who teach the new late 19th century man made doctrine of “accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior” by a profession only is not practicing a true biblical practice of Christianity. The protestant founders believed in the biblical practice of the sacramental baptism. The 19th century altar call by protestant Evangelicals have divided or parted from their protestant founders in the man made Sola’s doctrines.

From this late protestant historical change interpretation of the Sola fide, Sola Scriptura man made doctrines, have replaced the sacramental baptism with an altar call subject to a profession of faith at the same time making the false claim that scripture supports this new ideology from non-Catholic men and women.

As a Catholic, I don’t question another’s faith in Jesus Christ. Just don’t go out misinforming others about Catholicism. We believe in a profession of faith with baptism in the Word of God which becomes a Sacrament, is what saves you now.

Never does the scripture reveal that faith alone or a profession of faith alone saves anybody. That is an invention by non-Catholic men and women since the 19th century.

Correction, from your quote; “confusion and lack of knowledge about what we (non-Catholics) believe,” has nothing to do with Catholics understandings and knowledge in Protestantism. The lack of knowledge and misunderstandings deals within the protestant non-Catholic communities who introduce confusion and multiple different interpretations of salvation from their pulpits with other splinter Christian protestant groups. To include many of those who present a misinformed and false understanding of the True teachings of Catholicism.

Catholics are trying to help you and other non-Catholics understand our 2000 year old Catholic Christian faith.

When your presented with the Truth of Catholicism, it may reveal a contradiction of what you learned from your non-Catholic Pastors and leaders about Catholicism. If you find yourself getting offended by the Truth of Catholic Christianity which contradicts your knowledge and misinformed understandings of the bible and the history of Christianity, we mean no offense here, just a correct understanding be reached about Catholicism.
As a result, no, I’m not going to debate with you. If you think 2 Peter 3:21 supports salvation by baptism, then, by all means, please go right ahead. I don’t care. I’m just here to explain that we don’t and why we don’t.
You might check your bible again, 2 Peter 3:21 does not exist? I believe you mean 1 Peter 3:21 that teaches “baptism saves now”. Maybe take a look at 1 Peter 3:21 and let us know what you think Peter is teaching the first Century Christians?
Why don’t you show us Protestants how secure you are in your Catholic faith by accepting that we have different beliefs and stop being so threatened by them, acting as if we’re the enemy and you have to defeat us at any cost?
What you believe about Jesus the Catholic Church preserved the revelations and biblical teachings and handed them down to you. We don’t have a different belief of Jesus. What you have is a bible that lacks the full deposit of faith from the Apostles, and a very new and different way of interpreting the scriptures and a new and diverse way of practicing your faith in Jesus Christ.

We pray for reconciliation between our communities, your never considered an enemy here. You can help with our Reconciliation by not applying barriers such as false stereotypes of Catholicism and any misinformed or lack of understanding by rejecting Catholicism, before allowing the full teaching to get revealed to you by practicing Catholics.

Peace be with you
 
Right on, Gabriel.

It is one thing to hear misconceptions about our Catholic faith. It is another thing to willfully promote knowingly false ideas about the Church.
 
What do I believe Baptism to be?

What do I believe the Eucharist to be?

Won’t say.

What I will say, and this just my opinion, is that I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be. Does this make me a heretic? I don’t think it does but I’m sure others will say otherwise.

Ed
I apologize that I did a poor job of getting across the point I was trying to make in what I wrote above.

What I believe Baptism and the Eucharist to be is completely irrelevant to the point I was attempting to make.

I’ll make this very real life and personal. Things like this take on a whole new meaning when they get really close and personal as you all know.

My mom was born and raised Baptist. Ten months ago, at the age of 93, she passed away maintaining this belief. She had close friends who were Roman Catholic as well as Lutheran so she had a basic understanding of their beliefs on this issue. Do I believe my mom’s eternal destiny was determined solely on this issue? Absolutely not! God does look at the heart. I told my mom’s Baptist Pastor my views on this and he completely agreed with me.

That is the point I was trying to make above when I said " I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be."

Ed

P.S. I’ll stop posting the same thin on different treads…kinda new at this.
 
I apologize that I did a poor job of getting across the point I was trying to make in what I wrote above.

What I believe Baptism and the Eucharist to be is completely irrelevant to the point I was attempting to make.

I’ll make this very real life and personal. Things like this take on a whole new meaning when they get really close and personal as you all know.

My mom was born and raised Baptist. Ten months ago, at the age of 93, she passed away maintaining this belief. She had close friends who were Roman Catholic as well as Lutheran so she had a basic understanding of their beliefs on this issue. Do I believe my mom’s eternal destiny was determined solely on this issue? Absolutely not! God does look at the heart. I told my mom’s Baptist Pastor my views on this and he completely agreed with me.

That is the point I was trying to make above when I said " I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be."

Ed

P.S. I’ll stop posting the same thin on different treads…kinda new at this.
…that Baptism and the Eucharist are symbolic (what Baptist believe)…ed
 
I apologize that I did a poor job of getting across the point I was trying to make in what I wrote above.

What I believe Baptism and the Eucharist to be is completely irrelevant to the point I was attempting to make.

I’ll make this very real life and personal. Things like this take on a whole new meaning when they get really close and personal as you all know.

My mom was born and raised Baptist. Ten months ago, at the age of 93, she passed away maintaining this belief. She had close friends who were Roman Catholic as well as Lutheran so she had a basic understanding of their beliefs on this issue. Do I believe my mom’s eternal destiny was determined solely on this issue? Absolutely not! God does look at the heart. I told my mom’s Baptist Pastor my views on this and he completely agreed with me.

That is the point I was trying to make above when I said " I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be."

Ed

P.S. I’ll stop posting the same thin on different treads…kinda new at this.
That’s a horse of a different color.

It has to do with knowledge and culpability and desire for the truth.

I think you are pretty right on with your scenario.

It’s not so much that God allows different doctrines, but that he judges is based on our knowledge and desire to do his will.
 
That is the point I was trying to make above when I said " I believe God gives us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist and Baptism to be."
Ed, better said that God gives us free will to discern his Truth and to follow him. Receiving the sacraments are the most assured way for a Christian to make it to heaven as they give us his grace, grace that we need to persevere and work out our salvation as St. Paul says.

PnP
 
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