QUOTE=Roblox84;6375240]I have posted something on another thread about this subject and was wondering what you guy’s think. Many say that being born of water and spirit does not have anything to do with baptism but with being born again or something close to that. Is there anything else that can prove that the passage is actually talking about baptism?
Yeah, Jesus used a double meaning word here “Anothen”, which can mean “Born again” or “Born from above”. Protestants use the worldly meaning Nicodemus uses from the natural birth from his mother’s womb “born again”.
Jesus rebukes Nicodemus’s incorrect interpretation of the Word Anothen. Here see for yourself, from the NAB translation which gives the true translation of the conversation broken down;
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you,** no one can see the kingdom of God without being born 3 from above.” **4
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
5
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, **no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. **
6
What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.
7
**Do not be amazed that I told you, ‘You must be born from above.’ **
8
The wind 4 blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9
Nicodemus answered and said to him, “How can this happen?”
10
Jesus answered and said to him, "You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this?
Here’s one early Church Father among the many, who taught John 3:5 references water baptism.
Irenaeus
“He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age” (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).
“‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared:** ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5]” (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]). **
Let me know if this helped, or if you need more?
see this site for more on John 3:5
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1786166/posts
Peace be with you
