So let's talk about today's readings 2/1/10

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cheeto1

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February 1, 2010
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Reading I
2 Sm 15:13-14, 30; 16:5-13
An informant came to David with the report,
“The children of Israel have transferred their loyalty to Absalom.”
At this, David said to all his servants
who were with him in Jerusalem:
“Up! Let us take flight, or none of us will escape from Absalom.
Leave quickly, lest he hurry and overtake us,
then visit disaster upon us and put the city to the sword.”
As David went up the Mount of Olives, he wept without ceasing.
His head was covered, and he was walking barefoot.
All those who were with him also had their heads covered
and were weeping as they went.
As David was approaching Bahurim,
a man named Shimei, the son of Gera
of the same clan as Saul’s family,
was coming out of the place, cursing as he came.
He threw stones at David and at all the king’s officers,
even though all the soldiers, including the royal guard,
were on David’s right and on his left.
Shimei was saying as he cursed:
“Away, away, you murderous and wicked man!
The LORD has requited you for all the bloodshed in the family of Saul,
in whose stead you became king,
and the LORD has given over the kingdom to your son Absalom.
And now you suffer ruin because you are a murderer.”
Abishai, son of Zeruiah, said to the king:
“Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king?
Let me go over, please, and lop off his head.”
But the king replied: “What business is it of mine or of yours,
sons of Zeruiah, that he curses?
Suppose the LORD has told him to curse David;
who then will dare to say, ‘Why are you doing this?’”
Then the king said to Abishai and to all his servants:
“If my own son, who came forth from my loins, is seeking my life,
how much more might this Benjaminite do so?
Let him alone and let him curse, for the LORD has told him to.
Perhaps the LORD will look upon my affliction
and make it up to me with benefits
for the curses he is uttering this day.”
David and his men continued on the road,
while Shimei kept abreast of them on the hillside,
all the while cursing and throwing stones and dirt as he went.

Responsorial Psalm
3:2-3, 4-5, 6-7
R. (8a)** Lord, rise up and save me.**
O LORD, how many are my adversaries!
Many rise up against me!
Many are saying of me,
“There is no salvation for him in God.”
R. Lord, rise up and save me.
But you, O LORD, are my shield;
my glory, you lift up my head!
When I call out to the LORD,
he answers me from his holy mountain.
R. Lord, rise up and save me.
When I lie down in sleep,
I wake again, for the LORD sustains me.
I fear not the myriads of people
arrayed against me on every side.
R. Lord, rise up and save me.

Gospel

Mk 5:1-20
Jesus and his disciples came to the other side of the sea,
to the territory of the Gerasenes.
When he got out of the boat,
at once a man from the tombs who had an unclean spirit met him.
The man had been dwelling among the tombs,
and no one could restrain him any longer, even with a chain.
In fact, he had frequently been bound with shackles and chains,
but the chains had been pulled apart by him and the shackles smashed,
and no one was strong enough to subdue him.
Night and day among the tombs and on the hillsides
he was always crying out and bruising himself with stones.
Catching sight of Jesus from a distance,
he ran up and prostrated himself before him,
crying out in a loud voice,
“What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, do not torment me!”
(He had been saying to him, “Unclean spirit, come out of the man!”)
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He replied, “Legion is my name. There are many of us.”
And he pleaded earnestly with him
not to drive them away from that territory.

Now a large herd of swine was feeding there on the hillside.
And they pleaded with him,
“Send us into the swine. Let us enter them.”
And he let them, and the unclean spirits came out and entered the swine.
The herd of about two thousand rushed down a steep bank into the sea,
where they were drowned.
The swineherds ran away and reported the incident in the town
and throughout the countryside.
And people came out to see what had happened.
As they approached Jesus,
they caught sight of the man who had been possessed by Legion,
sitting there clothed and in his right mind.
And they were seized with fear.
Those who witnessed the incident explained to them what had happened
to the possessed man and to the swine.
Then they began to beg him to leave their district.
As he was getting into the boat,
the man who had been possessed pleaded to remain with him.
But Jesus would not permit him but told him instead,
“Go home to your family and announce to them
all that the Lord in his pity has done for you.”
Then the man went off and began to proclaim in the Decapolis
what Jesus had done for him; and all were amazed.
 
From the OT reading I was struck by the thought, “This Shimei, could be a great metaphor for that nagging, time-and-again, confrontation we often are faced with in regards to the temporal consequences of sin.”
 
As David went up the Mount of Olives, he wept without ceasing…
All those who were with him…were weeping as they went
– This made me think of Jesus making His way to Gethsemane, where He was
in agony, and His apostles with Him.

“He threw stones at David and at all the king’s officers,
even though all the soldiers, including the royal guard,
were on David’s right and on his left.”
– He seems like a crazy man, like the guy in today’s gospel.

"Let me go over, please, and lop off his head.”
– This one reminded me of James and John, the sons of thunder, who said “let us
call down lightening from the sky on them”.

“Let him alone and let him curse, for the LORD has told him to”
– How did David know that? A while ago, God wasn’t even able to speak to him,
and had to get Nathan to tell him things. Now he just knows what God wants.
Remember how angry he was at Abigail’s husband? He didn’t even attack
David. But for this man, he just knows for some mysterious reason, that it’s
God’s will. If anyone ever treated me that way, the Last thing I would think is
that God wanted them to.

“There is no salvation for him in God.”
– Who do you think this about? Anyone? Is it right to think that way about
anyone?

“When I lie down in sleep, I wake again, for the LORD sustains me.”
– Does anyone ever think this about God, or do we think we woke up by
ourselves?

“(He had been saying to him, “Unclean spirit, come out of the man!”)”
– I feel indignant with this line, since why didn’t the spirits listen to Jesus the
first time, like everyone else? How did these particular spirits have the nerve
to argue with the Son of the Living God? and why did they need His permission
to go in the pigs? Did they ask His permission before going into the man?
I feel such sorrow for the innocent creatures, driven mad by an act of Our Lord
Jesus Christ! But the most appalling thing in the story is this:
they caught sight of the man… sitting there clothed and in his right mind.
And they were seized with fear.
– Well, they should have been seized with fear instead when the man was
possessed! Any rational person would be relieved and joyful to see the
man in his right mind. These people are scarier than the man who was
possessed, at least he had an excuse for his behavior. That man was the
only one who wanted to be with Jesus. Hey - what if all those people who
begged Him to leave were possessed?
"“Go home to your family and announce to them
all that the Lord in his pity has done for you.”
– does this line speak to anyone today?

today is the day of St. Brigid in Ireland and New Zealand.

so what struck you about today’s readings? :bible1::twocents:
 
From the OT reading I was struck by the thought, “This Shimei, could be a great metaphor for that nagging, time-and-again, confrontation we often are faced with in regards to the temporal consequences of sin.”
you mean confrontations with people, or inside oursleves with God?
This is an interesting thought…
 
you mean confrontations with people, or inside oursleves with God?
At first I though I could answer this simply and quickly. The more I think about it, the more complex my response gets. This phenomenon should in no way be regarded as a function of any type of intellectual propensity…lol.

I guess the basic thought that came to mind, was that we often find ourselves in an ongoing struggle with the fallout of our sins.

I rarely have a lot of time for the forums, and don’t post much because I am rarely able to follow up in a timely, or plenteous manner. But I did feel compelled to share that thought.

Thanks for the thread and the question.
 
But the king replied: “What business is it of mine or of yours,
sons of Zeruiah, that he curses?
Suppose the LORD has told him to curse David;
who then will dare to say, ‘Why are you doing this?’”
This really gave me pause for thought, “What business is it of mine… that he curses”?

It is a different way of looking at such a situation. I have had some bizarre experiences of people coming up to me and cursing me (which I attributed to their bigotry or xenophobia), and it was pretty upsetting. Of course, the big difference is that everyone would have known David, and in my experiences the people knew nothing about me.

But … I don’t know what I am on about here exactly … but I wonder, does it help us to see God at work in every situation… even bizarre ones.
 
But … I don’t know what I am on about here exactly … but I wonder, does it help us to see God at work in every situation… even bizarre ones.
Time and again, when the most bizarre, annoying, and absurd things come into my life, I am drawn to Fr. Jean Pierre de Caussade’s classic, Abandonment to Divine Providence. If you have not read it, I would encourage you to do so. I have always believed that God is involved in the most intimate details of our lives. How else could He, as scripture tells us, know us better than we know ourselves. Fr. Caussade treats this theological reality in the most illuminating way. Of course you have to wade through 18th century language to get to the heart of what he is saying, but it is well worth it.
 
This really gave me pause for thought, “What business is it of mine… that he curses”?

It is a different way of looking at such a situation. I have had some bizarre experiences of people coming up to me and cursing me (which I attributed to their bigotry or xenophobia), and it was pretty upsetting. Of course, the big difference is that everyone would have known David, and in my experiences the people knew nothing about me.

But … I don’t know what I am on about here exactly … but I wonder, does it help us to see God at work in every situation… even bizarre ones.
O.k. xenophobia, fear of foreigners. Good thing I have a dictionary. You know, it’s
not always God. I had a relative who had a nervous breakdown and had to live in a
mental hospital for a while. The people there would do that. They would go up to
random people and start swearing. I don’t think God’s Holy Spirit usually moves
people to do that.

I live in a place that is filled with foreigners, and it is valued here to be foreign. You
pick from 12 different languages just to get a library card application. There are 130
nationalities at my church!

The line you highlighted made me think too: “What business is it of mine…that he
curses?” – I’m still thinking about it.

Of course it always helps to see God’s work in every situation because that is
reality. He is working in every situation, even when the devil is working there too.
 
I guess the basic thought that came to mind, was that we often find ourselves in an ongoing struggle with the fallout of our sins.
You mean people who won’t forgive us, or consequences of illegal things and
addictions? I’m not really good at understanding definitions of any kind unless
I have some kind of examples. Thanks for getting me thinking… :hmmm:
 
I have always believed that God is involved in the most intimate details of our lives.
This is something I wonder about. I believe that God cares about our souls and final destination, but does he care about exactly how it happens?
 
Of course it always helps to see God’s work in every situation because that is
reality. He is working in every situation, even when the devil is working there too.
If God allows something, then I have to ask myself how he would want me to respond.
Sometimes the answer is obvious, but sometimes it isn’t (not to me, anyway). :confused:

It is a really strange thing for David to say, isn’t it?

This is from Haydock:
Ver. 10.—11. Hath bid him curse. Not that the Lord was the author of Semei’s sin, which proceeded purely from his own malice, and the abuse of his free-will; but that knowing and suffering his malicious disposition to break out on this occasion, he made use of him as his instrument to punish David for his sins. (Challoner) — He adored the justice of God; who is often said to do what he does not hinder, or what he only permits. (Estius) — David is here a noble figure of Jesus Christ, excusing his executioners, (Haydock) and receiving the insults of the Jews, without complaining. (Calmet) — If Semei had not been guilty of sin, but acted according to God’s will, he could not have been justly punished, 3 Kings ii. (Worthington)
 
You mean people who won’t forgive us, or consequences of illegal things and
addictions? I’m not really good at understanding definitions of any kind unless
I have some kind of examples.
Yes, all that you said. Some examples that spring to mind are divorce, especially where children are involved (they often suffer the most), another adultery (so hard to restore trust), and of course the seven deadly sins that often lead to long term addictions and the whole gamut of emotional, psychological, and physical complications that accompany them. Then there is the one who is incarcerated, maybe for life…so many examples.

You know I could go on for a long time. It is the power of sin that for a little while, God allows to have it’s way in around our lives as we strive to learn what it means to be IN the world, but not OF it. Of course the little while I’m talking about is not particular to our personal lives, but it the little while before Christ returns and the Kingdom of God will be fully come.

I am struck by a certain sense of arrogance (of course it may a perceptual fault of my own) with which some people discuss the ways (no one particular in mind, I do it myself…:sad_yes:), thoughts, motives, designs, and purposes of God in many of the threads found on Internet forums, and also in most other forms of media. What business IS it of ours how God thinks, and acts, and predestines that which sometimes seems like utter chaos, sometimes like a maelstrom of uncertainty, improbability, and utter absurdity, sometimes like a maddening Cloud of Unknowing, all from which He alone brings forth creatures fit for His Kingdom?

I’m getting dramatic…I hope there is some clarity for you in my response…🙂
 
I’m getting dramatic…I hope there is some clarity for you in my response…🙂
Yes, the more examples you gave, the more clear it all was. I LOVE the drama…

That time you said, “I could go on forever…” reminded me of the time when one
of the gospel writers said that if everything Jesus said and did was recorded, there
wouldn’t be enough books to contain it all. If that is true, then why did they give
us so little? I know, they said they gave us the part that would help our faith, but
now there are a million ka-zillion questions that can’t be answered. It would be so
interesting.

And Yes, again, I agree, what business is it of ours? And so sometimes I think I
should stop asking the questions that go walking across my mind. But sometimes
someone already thought of that question, and they already know the answer.

“we strive to learn what it means to be IN the world, but not OF it.”
– and that’s what all the questions mean.
 
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