So let's talk about today's readings 2/3/09

[cheeto1]

usccb.org/nab/readings/020309.shtml

The first reading tells us that “a great cloud of witnesses” is watching us run this race. I know they are cheering us on.
But then, the comparison is changed to fighting, a struggle
against sin, and we are told that in this fight, we have not yet
shed our blood. Notice the word “yet”. I think the apostle
fully expects this to follow if we continue in this fight.

The psalm tells us that all the ends of the earth, all nations,
all families, even those who died, shall turn to the Lord.
It would be great to believe that, because then there would
be no hell, only heaven. What do you think it really means?
I guess it could mean all “kinds” of people.

“Your faith has saved you”. The gospel story is so strange because Jesus “accidentally” heals someone. How could He
“feel power go out of HIm” without first willing it?

Today is the day of St. Blase, and another bishop called Ansgar,
who said that if God would work a miracle through him, he
would ask for one miracle only, “That by His power, He would
make me a good man.” He might be wiser than Soloman!

So what struck you about today’s readings?:bible1:

 

[distracted]

I was struck by the fact that this woman only had to be near Jesus, touch his clothing, to be healed…
makes me wonder why more poeple don’t spend time with HIm in His Real Presence… in the Catholic Church…

No wonder the world is crazy as it is…

even Catholics don’t do this…

 

[Strategery]

From my daily devotional …

Hebrews gives a great description of how we can learn from the ways of our predecessors. Throughout Hebrews 11, we are reminded of great trials that were endured through the faith of Old Testament figures – Abraham, Enoch, Joseph, Jacob, Moses, and others. The examples of the ancient saints are summed up with the following:

Hebrews 11:32-38

32 What more shall I say? I have not time to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets,
33 who by faith conquered kingdoms, did what was righteous, obtained the promises; they closed the mouths of lions,
34 put out raging fires, escaped the devouring sword; out of weakness they were made powerful, became strong in battle, and turned back foreign invaders.
35 Women received back their dead through resurrection. Some were tortured and would not accept deliverance, in order to obtain a better resurrection.
36 Others endured mockery, scourging, even chains and imprisonment.
37 They were stoned, sawed in two, put to death at sword’s point; they went about in skins of sheep or goats, needy, afflicted, tormented.
38 The world was not worthy of them. They wandered about in deserts and on mountains, in caves and in crevices in the earth.

Hebrews 11 then closes with a reminder that we have been given something greater than the ancient saints:

39 Yet all these, though approved because of their faith, did not receive what had been promised.
40 God had foreseen something better for us, so that without us they should not be made perfect.

Today’s first reading (Hebrews 12:1-4) continues from there:

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us
2 while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith. For the sake of the joy that lay before him he endured the cross, despising its shame, and has taken his seat at the right of the throne of God.
3 Consider how he endured such opposition from sinners, in order that you may not grow weary and lose heart.
4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood.

The ancient saints of the old testament are presented as witnesses, testifying to us about what can be endured through faith. The heavens are filled with people who have unlocked the secrets of spirituality and been filled with God’s power. As Hebrews 11:40 says, we have been given more than the ancient saints were. We were given Christ.

As Catholics, we place great value on studying the saints of both the old and the new covenant, and learning from their testimonies. We can see how the new covenant saints have focused on Christ and endured their trials, and we can see how God revealed his glory through them. These are great lessons for us, and our faith embraces and cherishes them.

We can stand on the shoulders of this cloud of witnesses. We can rid ourselves of every burden and sin (aka – putting flesh to death, aka – obedience), while focusing our eyes on Christ. Through this process we come closer and closer to Christ, who is the power source. With that power, we can endure anything the world throws at us. It’s all there for us.

 

[passus]

“Your faith has saved you”. The gospel story is so strange because Jesus “accidentally” heals someone. How could He
“feel power go out of HIm” without first willing it?

As I was reading today’s Gospel reading, this particular passage was one that struck me, too.

I think from science fiction TV and video games and such, we automatically seem to get this idea of a Jesus who has a “backup miracle reserve–” that when He works a miracle, He loses life energy, or some kind of equivalent and so when the woman touched Him on His way to the synagogue, He only knew He had been touched because He literally felt “the power go out of Him.” That’s obviously not the case, for it is without a doubt that Christ knew in His omniscience all along:

1. who the woman was
2. that she would touch Him and would be healed in the first place, which, if we can learn anything from any of Jesus’s other miracles, means that He was already well aware of her faith
3. that it was this woman who had touched Him.

 

[Nat2]

Oh! I absolutely LOVE this gospel! That is woman had so much faith in Christ. That she believed all she had to do was touch Him is such a lesson for me! I have to agree with passus, I don’t think Jesus just let it happen. I believe He had full knowledge of what was happening and that He said “I felt the power go out of me” so his apostles and disciples who were present could know what had just taken place so that it could be a lesson to all of as…because if He hadn’t have said anything, no one would have noticed and it wouldn’t have been recorded in the Bible.

But, I’m only 16 and I haven’t studied scripture, so that’s just my personal opinion.

 

[Nita]

As I listened to the gospel at Mass this morning, a thought came to mind as the lector read the part about Jesus bringing the dead girl back to life and then telling the parents to give her food. Perhaps it was because I was at Mass - where we are fed. The gospel event seemed a “type” of what happens in Confession and the Eucharist. That is, if we are dead in sin, through Jesus’ forgiveness in the Sacrament of Confession, He brings us back to supernatural life. We are then able to again be fed spiritually (by parent/Mother Church) with the Eucharist.

Nita

 

[cheeto1]

I was struck by the fact that this woman only had to be near Jesus, touch his clothing, to be healed…
makes me wonder why more poeple don’t spend time with HIm in His Real Presence… in the Catholic Church…

No wonder the world is crazy as it is…

even Catholics don’t do this…

Have you ever been healed of anything by being physically close
to His Real Presence?

I agree that Catholics should do this, I personally have found it
not only helpful, but life altering.

 

[cheeto1]

We can stand on the shoulders of this cloud of witnesses. We can rid ourselves of every burden and sin (aka – putting flesh to death, aka – obedience), while focusing our eyes on Christ. Through this process we come closer and closer to Christ, who is the power source. With that power, we can endure anything the world throws at us. It’s all there for us.

Thank you for the greater context of today’s first reading.
I’m not able to imagine the “standing on shoulders” part, but
thank you for the additional imagery. What’s the name of your
devotional?

 

[cheeto1]

So, passus and Nat2, you both believe that Jesus in fact did
not just “feel power flow out of Him”, but that He willed it first, and
just mentioned it for the sake of the bystanders. That seems
reasonable to me also but I am only 50% convinced. Why then
would Jesus try to trick the people by pretending He didn’t know
who touched Him, and saying He felt power flow from Him as if
not by His will? And then He topped it all off by stating, “your
faith has saved you”. I have never seen Jesus try to trick anyone.

 

[cheeto1]

As I listened to the gospel at Mass this morning, a thought came to mind as the lector read the part about Jesus bringing the dead girl back to life and then telling the parents to give her food. Perhaps it was because I was at Mass - where we are fed. The gospel event seemed a “type” of what happens in Confession and the Eucharist. That is, if we are dead in sin, through Jesus’ forgiveness in the Sacrament of Confession, He brings us back to supernatural life. We are then able to again be fed spiritually (by parent/Mother Church) with the Eucharist.

Nita

Thank you for sharing this, it is beautiful. God has been good
to you today, and you were kind enough to share. Jesus’ words
are for us, “Little girl, arise!”

 

[Strategery]

Thank you for the greater context of today’s first reading.
I’m not able to imagine the “standing on shoulders” part, but
thank you for the additional imagery. What’s the name of your
devotional?

Thanks!

Standing on shoulders - I’m a science guy, and that is how science works. We learn from and build on discoveries made throughout time. In my opinion that applies to spiritual maturity to a certain degree. Not quite the same way as science, if that were the case we’d all be light years ahead of Paul. But there’s still tremendous value in learning from the saints.

This is why some of the Protestant-Catholic arguments pain me so much. In our treatment of saints, we’re doing exactly what is described in Hebrews - we’re just paying attention to the newer witnesses in the crowd. The way it is all twisted and misinterpreted is so sad.

 

[passus]

But, I’m only 16 and I haven’t studied scripture, so that’s just my personal opinion.

Meh, I’m 16.

Why then
would Jesus try to trick the people by pretending He didn’t know
who touched Him, and saying He felt power flow from Him as if
not by His will?

It is entirely possible that in His human mind, Jesus really didn’t know who had touched Him and so it was in that sense that He meant the question. On the other hand, Jesus may have known in His human mind, but asked the question for the purpose of edification.

I don’t see anything in that passage, however, that suggests that He was trying to “trick” any of the people.

 

[cheeto1]

In our treatment of saints, we’re doing exactly what is described in Hebrews - we’re just paying attention to the newer witnesses in the crowd.

Yes, why aren’t we light years ahead of Paul? In all fairness,
Jesus appeared and spoke to Paul. He never had to figure out
what He meant.

Who are the “newer witnesses in the crowd”?
What is “our treatment of the saints” today?

Inquiring minds want to know…

 

[Strategery]

Yes, why aren’t we light years ahead of Paul? In all fairness,
Jesus appeared and spoke to Paul. He never had to figure out
what He meant.

Who are the “newer witnesses in the crowd”?
What is “our treatment of the saints” today?

Inquiring minds want to know…

The newer witnesses in the crowd are the saints of the new covenant. Hebrews 11 brings up more than a dozen individuals from the old covenant and describes how they acted in faith and thrived through their trials.

We’ve got hundreds more examples of such strong faith recorded in the history of the Catholic Church. In the 2000 years (give or take) since Hebrews was written, the cloud of witnesses is bigger.

Treatment of the states today – As Catholics, we choose to hear the testomony of those witnesses by studying the lives of the saints, veneration, and prayer to intercession. That’s something catholics do, and many protestants abhor, because they mistake what we do for worship.

 

[cheeto1]

Meh, I’m 16.

It is entirely possible that in His human mind, Jesus really didn’t know who had touched Him and so it was in that sense that He meant the question. On the other hand, Jesus may have known in His human mind, but asked the question for the purpose of edification.

I don’t see anything in that passage, however, that suggests that He was trying to “trick” any of the people.

#1 - what does “meh” mean?
#2 - If He asked the question to instruct or improve morally or
spiritually, then what was it He was trying to teach by
that question, “who touched me”?

Thank you for your thoughts and opinions

 

[cheeto1]

Treatment of the states today – As Catholics, we choose to hear the testomony of those witnesses by studying the lives of the saints, veneration, and prayer to intercession. That’s something catholics do, and many protestants abhor, because they mistake what we do for worship.

Oh! Thanks for clarifying that. I thought you were disappointed
by our treatment of the saints today…

 

[passus]

#1 - what does “meh” mean?
#2 - If He asked the question to instruct or improve morally or
spiritually, then what was it He was trying to teach by
that question, “who touched me”?

Thank you for your thoughts and opinions

“Meh” is an interjection used to express indifference toward a subject. It serves as a verbal shrug of the shoulders.

Had He used the question that way, He probably was intending to teach the woman a lesson in faith and in turn, a lesson for the whole crowed present. It required an even greater affirmation of faith on her part to respond honestly to the question (when she simply could have run away) and serves for us as an example of how we are rewarded for our fear of the Lord.

 

[Nat2]

So, passus and Nat2, you both believe that Jesus in fact did
not just “feel power flow out of Him”, but that He willed it first, and
just mentioned it for the sake of the bystanders. That seems
reasonable to me also but I am only 50% convinced. Why then
would Jesus try to trick the people by pretending He didn’t know
who touched Him, and saying He felt power flow from Him as if
not by His will? And then He topped it all off by stating, “your
faith has saved you”. I have never seen Jesus try to trick anyone.

First of all, Jesus never would trick anyone, NEVER. Deception it a trait of the evil one, Jesus is only Good.

“He felt the power go out of him” is not saying that He didn’t know what was happening, it’s stating that the healing is not only spiritual, but very powerfully physical. When Jesus heals someone, it is like he is literally *giving * some of Himself away, the same as He did on the cross, except with that He gave His whole body away for us.

One thing to remember is Jesus always says "You faith has saved you” or "Do you want to get well?” so that we may understand the great importance of believing in Christ’s power, and also the importance of having a desired to be healed. You have to want God’s help in order to receive it, because God gave us freewill.

I actually just doing this in a religious edu class yesterday

 

[distracted]

Have you ever been healed of anything by being physically close
to His Real Presence?

I agree that Catholics should do this, I personally have found it
not only helpful, but life altering.

I have been healed, just not physically… that i KNOW of… I mean, i am pretty healthy as far as i know… and mabye that is thanks to the Real Presence… and i am sure it is…

God bless… nice to meet someone who knows what i am talking about…

 

[Strategery]

One thing to remember is Jesus always says "You faith has saved you” or "Do you want to get well?” so that we may understand the great importance of believing in Christ’s power, and also the importance of having a desired to be healed. You have to want God’s help in order to receive it, because God gave us freewill.

That’s true for the synoptic gospels, where miracles are presented as acts of mercy and reward for faith.

In John, the signs are presented as demonstrations of divinity. Particularly Cana (Jn 2), the healing of the blind man (Jn 9), and Lazarus (Jn 11).