So many rules / excluded text (books ) from bible

[john78]

Why as Catholics do we have so many rules ?

The Jewish faith from what i have heard in homilies has around 600 or so rules or at least did during the time of Christ.

Then we as Christians are given the Ten Commandments, so from 600 to 10 seems great, then Christ himself breaks it down a little more for us, with Faith,Hope,and Love and saying " the greatest of these is Love "

an another quote " Love each other as I have Loved You , or Love thy neighbor as thy self. "

SO

lets fastforward to today with Cannon Law, and the Rubix…

I have been brought up Catholic and only Recently learned that there was even a Rubix,

and i barely have a incling as to Cannon Law and Zero of a clue on the Rubix.

So i guess in simplistic common sense addtional rules were put in place to protect the Eucharist, I guess everything else is to enrich our faith.

is it that simple or more complex ?

if it is more complex, why ?

Why make things more complex when we were given originall 600 rules, to 10, to then i guess 3, and then things changed.

it may seem like i have over simplified this, but i do not pose this jokingly or ignorantly

one might want to say well go read Cannon Law and the Rubix, which would be equivalent to trying to sit down and read the original bill of rights and constitution and claim to understand it.

So unless there is a simplified version for those of us who want to learn but not versed in law or theology it becomes daunting to try and learn or understand.

also i was browsing the local Christian reading section of books a million, and found other books not included in the bible, an just browsing through one book i cant remember which, one thing i found interesting for this book alone was that it was explained that only partial text was found, so that alone would be one explination why such books would be excluded,

so i guess the other part of this thread i would ask is, as Catholics are we allowed to read these other books that were excluded from the bible ?

simply read, not base it as something to add to ones faith, but simply as research / information purposes.

or is it not looked upon as proper ? and how are we even to know if books that are labeled as left out of the bible were even indeed left out ?

how do we know that someone just didnt make something up and just claim it was left out ?

 

[George_Stegmeir]

The answer to your questions are quite simple. First, the rules of the church are there because Christ said so. Secondly, over the centuries, the Pope ,inspired by the Holy Spirit, in his role as the supreme temporal leader and teacher has issued various rules.
All of this is summarized in the Catachism of the Catholic Church,I suggest that you get a copy of it. It is regularly listed on e-bay as well as other sites.
The books of both the Old and New Testaments were accepted by the church by the time of the Council of Nicea, more than 1600 years ago. The books and writings not included had something wrong with them and were deemed by the early church fathers either not to be of devine origin, or espoused heretical views.
I don’t know who you have been talking to about our faith, but there seems to be a lot of Protestant influence in the way you asked your questions. As a person of faith, with good intentions, I suggest that you go to your nearest Catholic rectory and make an appointment to talk with a priest. In addition to what you have asked here, inquire as to your attending some RCIA sessions. Even though you are a Catholic already, you would greatly benefit from the information imparted in these sessions.
G*d Bless you!

 

[Church_Militant]

John Martignoni makes a very good point in his 2-Minute Apologetics where he points out.
As Catholics, do we have to accept everything the Church teaches?

If you want to call yourself Catholic, but you want to pick and choose for yourself which of the Church’s teachings to accept and which to reject, you give everyone else who calls themselves Catholic the right to do the same thing.

For example, you believe women should be priests…in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1577 states, “Only a baptized man validly receives ordination…For this reason the ordination of women is not possible!” You don’t believe that…well, that’s fine…[RIP] just tear that page out of your Catechism…you just made it a Catechism of your Catholic Church…not mine.

But remember, if you can throw doctrines out, so can everyone else who calls themselves Catholic. That gives Joe Parishioner over at St. Doubting Thomas Catholic Church the right to throw out the Church’s social justice teachings…he doesn’t feel like feeding the hungry, caring for the poor, and all that other “bleeding heart” stuff - Paragraphs 2401 -2463 [RIP]…he just made it a Catechism of his Catholic Church…not mine and not yours.

You believe contraception is okay? Paragraph 2370 says contraception is intrinsically evil! [RIP] Joe Parishioner doesn’t like what the Church teaches on the death penalty - Paragraphs 2266-2267**[RIP]**. You don’t like what it teaches on pages 55-60 [RIP]. He doesn’t like what it teaches on pages 128-140 [RIP]

Can you see what’s happening? I heard it said once that there is a shortage of vocations to the priesthood in the United States, but no shortage of vocations to the Papacy! If we don’t believe in all of it, if we each appoint ourselves Pope and throw out a doctrine here or a doctrine there, then our faith is no longer Catholic.

 

[Andre1000]

We humans need rules or we start to become very bad.

 

[JRKH]

Why as Catholics do we have so many rules ?

It is due to a phenomena that I call the “Yea but what if…” syndrome.

The Jewish faith from what i have heard in homilies has around 600 or so rules or at least did during the time of Christ.

I think actually it was probably more in Jesus time…

Then we as Christians are given the Ten Commandments, so from 600 to 10 seems great, then Christ himself breaks it down a little more for us, with Faith,Hope,and Love and saying " the greatest of these is Love "

Actually we were given the ten commandments before the 600 - the 600* were built upon the ten…
And - just to be picky - it was St Paul in 1 Corinthians 13 who said "The greatest of these is love but no doubt this was Jesus view as well.

an another quote " Love each other as I have Loved You , or Love thy neighbor as thy self. "

Yes - Our lives need to be built upon these…

SO

lets fastforward to today with Cannon Law, and the Rubix…

I have been brought up Catholic and only Recently learned that there was even a Rubix,

and i barely have a incling as to Cannon Law and Zero of a clue on the Rubix.

So i guess in simplistic common sense addtional rules were put in place to protect the Eucharist, I guess everything else is to enrich our faith.

is it that simple or more complex ?

if it is more complex, why ?

It is both simple AND complex…
The reason for canon Law is because the Church is also a government and as such likes to have many things “spelled out” and with 2000 years experience at answering “Yea but what if…” questions…Canon Law has become quite detailed…
The Rubrics is something that relates to the specifics of the mass and is designed to assure consistency of the liturgy in the universal church

Why make things more complex when we were given originall 600 rules, to 10, to then i guess 3, and then things changed.

As I said - the Church is a government and people keep asking questions and wanting clarification…The Church tries hard to accommodate and the result is “a lot of rules”…all built on the great commands of Love.

it may seem like i have over simplified this, but i do not pose this jokingly or ignorantly

Not a problem - good questions.

one might want to say well go read Cannon Law and the Rubix, which would be equivalent to trying to sit down and read the original bill of rights and constitution and claim to understand it.

Well actually the constitution and the bill of rights ARE pretty simple and straight forward…It’s all of the laws that came after that fill volumes and get so confusing…

So unless there is a simplified version for those of us who want to learn but not versed in law or theology it becomes daunting to try and learn or understand.

Use the Catechism. The one that I linked to has a nice search feature at the bottom of the page (don’t use the one at the top).

also i was browsing the local Christian reading section of books a million, and found other books not included in the bible, an just browsing through one book i cant remember which, one thing i found interesting for this book alone was that it was explained that only partial text was found, so that alone would be one explanation why such books would be excluded,

so i guess the other part of this thread i would ask is, as Catholics are we allowed to read these other books that were excluded from the bible ?

simply read, not base it as something to add to ones faith, but simply as research / information purposes.

or is it not looked upon as proper ? and how are we even to know if books that are labeled as left out of the bible were even indeed left out ?

how do we know that someone just didnt make something up and just claim it was left out ?

Others here can provide much better answers to this question than I can

Peace
James

 

[john78]

Ty James for the reply,

as for my conversations with protestants that would be zero, I find it funny how one can ask a question on a forum and automatically assumptions are made…

I didnt think of the " what if syndrome " I suppose it was around in the original official formation of the Catholic Church even back then as it is now.

and you are right the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are easy to understand it is what society has added that becomes convoluted and confusing.

oh and I did kind of figure that Christ didn’t say humanity needed to formulate or come up with Cannon Law / and the Rubix …

It does make me wonder what prompted rules to be established though, rather how many people went around asking the " what if " or caused problems, or started making odd demands that in turn caused said rule to be formed.

and really who have I been talking too ? that now i need to run and find a priest to answer all these questions, IF anything, i need to go and find some books to brush up on.

can anyone imagine how bombarded our priests would be if we started scheduling times for spiritual discernment so we could have these questions addressed. They would never get any work done.

BUT

It is I guess nice to know I would fit in with protestants, so i guess thanks for pointing that out.

Who would have thought a life long Catholic would be better suited as a Protestant, go figure.

All that required was some free thinking and open dialog to come to this new revelation.

But such is the risk of being open in a public forum.

again, thanks James for the response… and the link as i just added it to my favorites for later study !

still curious though if anyone has taken the time to find out more about books that were left out of the bible , or is it best to just leave it be ?

not that i am going to go on a hunt for any, any time soon.

just curious.

i wish i had the patience for reading, and the money to go out and i guess start collecting such books already suggested here in this thread.

 

[edwest2]

Hi John,

The rubrics are explained here:

newadvent.org/cathen/13216a.htm

Regarding the difference between the Protestant Bible and the Catholic Bible, I suggest this book:

amazon.com/Why-Catholic-Bibles-are-Bigger/dp/1581880103

As far as books that were excluded from the Bible, I suggest you ask a priest if it is OK for you to read them.

Hope this helps,
Ed

 

[JRKH]

John - don’t worry too much about sounding “protestant” - I actually did not get that impression from you. You just seem to have some rather basic questions that you are seeking answers to. Glad we could help and just keep on asking questions. Lots of good people here more than happy to help.

As to books about the “excluded texts” yes much has been written on them and I have looked through some…I never really found much in them “compelling”…though they do contain some things that are “traditional” beliefs…but nothing earth shattering…

Peace
James

 

[StevenFrancis]

Why as Catholics do we have so many rules ?

The Jewish faith from what i have heard in homilies has around 600 or so rules or at least did during the time of Christ.

Then we as Christians are given the Ten Commandments, so from 600 to 10 seems great, then Christ himself breaks it down a little more for us, with Faith,Hope,and Love and saying " the greatest of these is Love "

an another quote " Love each other as I have Loved You , or Love thy neighbor as thy self. "

SO

lets fastforward to today with Cannon Law, and the Rubix…

I have been brought up Catholic and only Recently learned that there was even a Rubix,

and i barely have a incling as to Cannon Law and Zero of a clue on the Rubix.

So i guess in simplistic common sense addtional rules were put in place to protect the Eucharist, I guess everything else is to enrich our faith.

is it that simple or more complex ?

if it is more complex, why ?

Why make things more complex when we were given originall 600 rules, to 10, to then i guess 3, and then things changed.

it may seem like i have over simplified this, but i do not pose this jokingly or ignorantly

one might want to say well go read Cannon Law and the Rubix, which would be equivalent to trying to sit down and read the original bill of rights and constitution and claim to understand it.

So unless there is a simplified version for those of us who want to learn but not versed in law or theology it becomes daunting to try and learn or understand.

also i was browsing the local Christian reading section of books a million, and found other books not included in the bible, an just browsing through one book i cant remember which, one thing i found interesting for this book alone was that it was explained that only partial text was found, so that alone would be one explination why such books would be excluded,

so i guess the other part of this thread i would ask is, as Catholics are we allowed to read these other books that were excluded from the bible ?

simply read, not base it as something to add to ones faith, but simply as research / information purposes.

or is it not looked upon as proper ? and how are we even to know if books that are labeled as left out of the bible were even indeed left out ?

how do we know that someone just didnt make something up and just claim it was left out ?

Hello:

As to Canon Law vs. Christ’s two commandments - Christ is speaking to Christians with the commandments. Those are the rules that we carry as individual Christians. They are easy to remember, and the entail all that the 10 commandments contained. But then, Jesus left us a Church, built upon His Apostles, and of course, in addition to being the body of Christ, the Church is an institution as well. Institutions require government to operate, and dogmas which set the axiomatic principles, and provide an agreed upon framework within which to operate. The Government of the Church is codified, just as the Government of our country is codified, into a constitutional and operating laws. Hence Canon Law. The average, workaday, Jesus loving Christian doesn’t generally need to know much canon law. It is there as a reference for us average Joes, should we need it. Just as you may study a section of municipal law if your neighbors tree overhangs onto your property. It is not to be dismissed. And there are many principles and operational ideas incorporated into canon law which may need to be referenced from time to time, but field guide, or handbook for the Catholic lay person is the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which contains the law, dogma, and principles of the Church, laid out in a way that is both informative, and germane to all Catholics and Catholic lives. A Catholic lay person with a good Catholic bible, and a CCC is in pretty good shape. Then just foster a prayer life, and develop an attitude of obedience to magisterium when in doubt, and you’re cooking with gas. We actually have very few “rules”

The next thing you talk about is Rubix? I’m fairly certain you’re referring to rubrics, which are the instructions in liturgical books that direct what activities should occur, and when, in a liturgical setting. There is also a special set of “rules” for Priests, Deacons, Bishops referred to as the GIRM (General Instruction for the Roman Missal). These are important as you say for protecting the rites surrounding the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.

As to the books of the bible deal, well, I think you’ve got it backward. Catholic bibles include translations of the Bible based on St. Jerome’s Vulgate, and include all the books of the Bible. Many Protestant bibles leave these books out, or relegate them out of the order of books agreed by the Church, and they place them in a section called Apocrypha. If you’re reading a Catholic Bible (Douay-Rheims, New American, Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition, Jerusalem Bible, et al. , you’re getting all the books decided as inspired by God.

If by missing books you are referring to the Gnostic Gospels and other such things, those are books which were examined by Christian Councils, but found not be inspired by God. They are not inerrant, and some of them are even downright heretical. They can only be trusted by a Christian to the point where they disagree in doctrine with the inspired scriptures collected in the Holy Bible. There is not much debate about this. The Bible was decided upon a LONG time ago, by the apostolic successors. Just one note on these. There are some, such as the proto-evangelium (sp?) which, in the places where they don’t conflict with Christian doctrine, are acceptable for individual Catholic belief, through tradition. Where we don’t know them to be the truth, but they provide acceptable tradition to a point, even though not inspired. The test is when an extrabiblical book teaches error in faith or morals, or corrupts the teachings of the Christ, or His Apostles, or teaches heresy. Many of them were written during major heretical movements such as Arianism, and were written in attempt by the author(s) to make scripture bear out their own heretical beliefs. We should be very careful in our reading of texts purporting to be biblical, which aren’t in the Bible. If there’s any direct conflict, the bible wins because it is inerrant.

This is my take on your questions. If I’m off base, or didn’t address what you’re actually asking, let me know.

Peace be with you,

Steven

 

[Church_Militant]

A lot of the things you need are free online.
Bible Christian Society
Biblical Evidence for Catholicism
Catholic Answers: Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth
Catholic Home Study Service
Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church