So many "Truths"

[Godmachine]

Something I find very noteworthy as I browse different threads on this forum is how many different answers different Catholics have to questions that seem to me very basic. For example the question of who gets into Heaven; Is it just Catholics? Just Christians? What about Jews or Muslims? What about people who don’t believe in God at all?

Different Catholics have different answers. Some say very emphatically that ONLY Catholics go to Heaven. Others assert just as emphatically that anyone can get into Heaven.

On several threads I have seen people asking about what happens to animals when they die; Do they go to Heaven? Some say yes, some say no.

I would think that the one “True” faith that claims to possess the Truth would have one true answer for questions like these and others. Instead I see many different “truths”. Sometimes I even see Catholics arguing and bickering amongst themselves. What really makes my head spin is when they then ask me why I cannot accept the “truth”.

 

[Abu]

Your dilemma is understandable.

That is why it is so important for real Catholics to study and know the Faith as we live in a very complex world with Satan and his cohorts ready and willing to confuse, mislead and lead astray.

Do you have any real desire to know truth?

 

[Godmachine]

Your dilemma is understandable.

That is why it is so important for real Catholics to study and know the Faith as we live in a very complex world with Satan and his cohorts ready and willing to confuse, mislead and lead astray.

Do you have any real desire to know truth?

Sure I do. I think most people do regardless of their beliefs. I think it is very important to make a distinction between what we know and what we believe, what is useful and what is true.

 

[ConstantineTG]

There is only one Truth. He also happens to be The Way and Life

[BIBLEDRB]John 14:6[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Godmachine]

There is only one Truth. He also happens to be The Way and Life

[BIBLEDRB]John 14:6[/BIBLEDRB]

And to liberal Catholics he was a liberal. To conservative Catholics he was a conservative. In fact I’ve never met any two Christians who were in complete agreement on that “truth” either.

 

[Abu]

Godmachine #3
Sure I do. I think most people do regardless of their beliefs. I think it is very important to make a distinction between what we know and what we believe, what is useful and what is true.

Proofs for God are many and the order in the universe is one.

But on Jesus Christ and His Catholic Church the facts are:

1. There was a man called Jesus
2. He claimed to be a messenger sent by God
3. What He did proved that He was such a messenger
4. While crowds followed Him, He spoke especially to a select group.
5. He told His select followers to continue His teaching and instituted His Church with a supreme head
6. He proclaimed that God would protect that teaching

His Church tells us that the messenger, Jesus of Nazareth, is God Himself, and She guides mankind with His teaching, and tells us that specific documents written before (OT) and after His coming (New Testament) are inspired and really have God as their author.

 

[thistle]

And to liberal Catholics he was a liberal. To conservative Catholics he was a conservative. In fact I’ve never met any two Christians who were in complete agreement on that “truth” either.

Liberal and Conservative are irrelevant labels and have nothing to do with the Truth that Salvation is only through Christ.

ALL Catholics believe salvation is only through Christ. In fact all mainstream non-Catholic Christians also believe this.

 

[Godmachine]

Proofs for God are many and the order in the universe is one.

But on Jesus Christ and His Catholic Church the facts are:

1. There was a man called Jesus
2. He claimed to be a messenger sent by God
3. What He did proved that He was such a messenger
4. While crowds followed Him, He spoke especially to a select group.
5. He told His select followers to continue His teaching and instituted His Church with a supreme head
6. He proclaimed that God would protect that teaching

His Church tells us that the messenger, Jesus of Nazareth, is God Himself, and She guides mankind with His teaching, and tells us that specific documents written before (OT) and after His coming (New Testament) are inspired and really have God as their author.

Abu, I would prefer not to move too far off topic here. It appears to me you and Constantine are attempting to sidestep what I think is a legitimate concern by turning the discussion in a different direction, making it all about Jesus. I did not say anything about Jesus in my OP and I do not wish to get into the tired old “Jesus said…” debate again. I am not talking about what Jesus said. I am talking about what Catholics say, how different Catholics respond differently to questions that should have simple answers, how different Catholics seem to adhere to different “truths”.

I find it very frustrating when Catholic friends and/or family members talk down to me as if I am dense or stupid because I do not accept the “truth”. My question to them, and to you is…Which truth? There are so many to choose from.

 

[Godmachine]

Liberal and Conservative are irrelevant labels and have nothing to do with the Truth that Salvation is only through Christ.

I do not think those labels are irrelevant at all. The “Jesus” that my mother believes in is an awful lot like my mother. The “Jesus” that my uncle Steve believes in is the spittin image of uncle Steve. The Jesus my friend Tim believes in is black and hands out condoms to high school kids. I suppose my “Jesus” would prefer brunettes and drinking dark beer.

ALL Catholics believe salvation is only through Christ. In fact all mainstream non-Catholic Christians also believe this.

If it’s that simple, why can’t we all just get along?

 

[Godmachine]

A line from the song “Christian Woman” by Type O Negative:

“Jesus Christ looks like me” -

Peter Steele (RIP)

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Something I find very noteworthy as I browse different threads on this forum is how many different answers different Catholics have to questions that seem to me very basic. For example the question of who gets into Heaven; Is it just Catholics? Just Christians? What about Jews or Muslims? What about people who don’t believe in God at all?

Different Catholics have different answers. Some say very emphatically that ONLY Catholics go to Heaven. Others assert just as emphatically that anyone can get into Heaven.

On several threads I have seen people asking about what happens to animals when they die; Do they go to Heaven? Some say yes, some say no.

I would think that the one “True” faith that claims to possess the Truth would have one true answer for questions like these and others. Instead I see many different “truths”. Sometimes I even see Catholics arguing and bickering amongst themselves. What really makes my head spin is when they then ask me why I cannot accept the “truth”.

Catholics do not know everything.
On some points, all agree.
But on others there is really trouble. The question you pose: Salvation through the Church is being something that is not settled even though we are 2000 years after Christ. So, no wonder people discuss and have different solutions.
Now, everybody agrees on Trinity of God, on the Mass, on the Sacraments.
But there many many mysteries to be solved.
God is infinite and we are finite…

 

[Dorothy]

Something I find very noteworthy as I browse different threads on this forum is how many different answers different Catholics have to questions that seem to me very basic. For example the question of who gets into Heaven; Is it just Catholics? Just Christians? What about Jews or Muslims? What about people who don’t believe in God at all?

Different Catholics have different answers. Some say very emphatically that ONLY Catholics go to Heaven. Others assert just as emphatically that anyone can get into Heaven.

On several threads I have seen people asking about what happens to animals when they die; Do they go to Heaven? Some say yes, some say no.

I would think that the one “True” faith that claims to possess the Truth would have one true answer for questions like these and others. Instead I see many different “truths”. Sometimes I even see Catholics arguing and bickering amongst themselves. What really makes my head spin is when they then ask me why I cannot accept the “truth”.

I respect your sincerity.

Some Catholics are poorly catechized and do not know how to articulate everything well about the faith. I know I cannot answer all questions in a way that they should be answered. I avoid those questions and leave it to those who are gifted to respond.

You mentioned in another post, that some people have a strong tendency to make God in their image. That attitude is not beneficial to their spiritual growth. They need to reach out to the Lord and ask Him for the grace to pick up their cross and follow Him.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church can help you in understanding the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church. And, if you decide to read it, it may seem dry to you at first. Read some of the lives of the saints! They are all so different, and reached a very high degree of sanctification. I very much benefit by reading their lives, as it helps me to see what God can do in us when we cooperate with His grace.

God’s blessings to you,

Dorothy

 

[Aginghippy]

You ask a really good question.
It WOULD be great if we could have a detailed answer to every question, but, unfortunately, that just isn’t going to happen in this life.
Even though we can’t know everything it doesn’t mean that we can’t know some things. We can know enough to follow the path that leads to everlasting life. It isn’t that complicated- “love God and love your neighbor as yourself”.
At the end, I doubt that God is going to ask us what we believed about pets in heaven or what we believed about who is or isn’t saved- He’s going to ask us if we believed in His Son and how we treated each other.

 

[rhiannonh]

And to liberal Catholics he was a liberal. To conservative Catholics he was a conservative. In fact I’ve never met any two Christians who were in complete agreement on that “truth” either.

good insight and sadly so true

has anyone ever read screwtape letters by C S Lewis… well worth a read before posting your next post whoever you are if you are about to disagree on something

 

[Zundrah]

Something I find very noteworthy as I browse different threads on this forum is how many different answers different Catholics have to questions that seem to me very basic. For example the question of who gets into Heaven; Is it just Catholics? Just Christians? What about Jews or Muslims? What about people who don’t believe in God at all?

Different Catholics have different answers. Some say very emphatically that ONLY Catholics go to Heaven. Others assert just as emphatically that anyone can get into Heaven.

On several threads I have seen people asking about what happens to animals when they die; Do they go to Heaven? Some say yes, some say no.

I would think that the one “True” faith that claims to possess the Truth would have one true answer for questions like these and others. Instead I see many different “truths”. Sometimes I even see Catholics arguing and bickering amongst themselves. What really makes my head spin is when they then ask me why I cannot accept the “truth”.

But all people from all backgrounds will speak out their opinions as though it is fact. That is part of being human.

You should ask a Catholic Apologist or read the Catechism regarding the answer you desire to know. Don’t ask just anyone just anywhere.

 

[Trishie]

Yes there are Catholics who seem ill-informed about the Church’s official teachings,:

**Pope John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio **

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_07121990_redemptoris-missio_en.html

"The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.

For this reason the Council, after affirming the centrality of the Paschal mystery, went on to declare that “this applies not only to Christians but to all people of good will in whose hearts grace is secretly at work. Since Christ died for everyone and since the ultimate calling of each of us comes from God and is therefore a universal one, we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God"

**From the Dogmatic Constitution of the Catholic, LUMEN GENTIUM, solemnly promulgated by his holiness Pope Paul v1 on November 21, 1964 **

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

"15. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits.

Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ’s disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth."

 

[Trishie]

Not many truths, one truth, and some ill-informed Catholics.
From the official Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 and when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

 

[JRKH]

Something I find very noteworthy as I browse different threads on this forum is how many different answers different Catholics have to questions that seem to me very basic. For example the question of who gets into Heaven; Is it just Catholics? Just Christians? What about Jews or Muslims? What about people who don’t believe in God at all?

Different Catholics have different answers. Some say very emphatically that ONLY Catholics go to Heaven. Others assert just as emphatically that anyone can get into Heaven.

On several threads I have seen people asking about what happens to animals when they die; Do they go to Heaven? Some say yes, some say no.

I would think that the one “True” faith that claims to possess the Truth would have one true answer for questions like these and others. Instead I see many different “truths”. Sometimes I even see Catholics arguing and bickering amongst themselves. What really makes my head spin is when they then ask me why I cannot accept the “truth”.

We are a pesky bunch aren’t we…

In truth - We DO have one truth. It is LOVE (Agape) and it holds the whole of the true faith together.

Unfortunately, when we get to close to something, or we get involved with deeper studies, or discussion of this or that finer point, we can lose sight of this Love upon which we should base everything else.

Peace
James

 

[meltzerboy]

Something I find very noteworthy as I browse different threads on this forum is how many different answers different Catholics have to questions that seem to me very basic. For example the question of who gets into Heaven; Is it just Catholics? Just Christians? What about Jews or Muslims? What about people who don’t believe in God at all?

Different Catholics have different answers. Some say very emphatically that ONLY Catholics go to Heaven. Others assert just as emphatically that anyone can get into Heaven.

On several threads I have seen people asking about what happens to animals when they die; Do they go to Heaven? Some say yes, some say no.

I would think that the one “True” faith that claims to possess the Truth would have one true answer for questions like these and others. Instead I see many different “truths”. Sometimes I even see Catholics arguing and bickering amongst themselves. What really makes my head spin is when they then ask me why I cannot accept the “truth”.

Probably as long as humans exist, there will be different interpretations and perspectives in mostly every domain of knowledge, whether it be history, philosophy, science, literature, music, art, law, or politics. When it comes to something so important and personal as religion and G-d, one would expect many disagreements. The “Truth” is elusive since it is filtered through humans’ finite minds, whose limited biological and cognitive functioning is strongly influenced by culture, socialization, prior experience, motivation, and expectation. Thus we have alternative views concerning the Truth. This is the case not only within Catholicism, but within virtually every other religion, as well as between religions. That is why I have often stated that religion, while it may be supported by reason, is essentially a matter of faith.

 

[fhansen]

Something I find very noteworthy as I browse different threads on this forum is how many different answers different Catholics have to questions that seem to me very basic. For example the question of who gets into Heaven; Is it just Catholics? Just Christians? What about Jews or Muslims? What about people who don’t believe in God at all?

Different Catholics have different answers. Some say very emphatically that ONLY Catholics go to Heaven. Others assert just as emphatically that anyone can get into Heaven.

On several threads I have seen people asking about what happens to animals when they die; Do they go to Heaven? Some say yes, some say no.

I would think that the one “True” faith that claims to possess the Truth would have one true answer for questions like these and others. Instead I see many different “truths”. Sometimes I even see Catholics arguing and bickering amongst themselves. What really makes my head spin is when they then ask me why I cannot accept the “truth”.

A Catholic who was given the title Doctor of the Church, meaning he was recognized as having contributed to our understanding of doctrine, had this to say:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."
He came to be known as St John of the Cross and I believe this quote sums up Catholic teaching most succinctly.