So many versions...so little time

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strngrnrth

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I now have four Bibles: A Douay-Rheims, a New American, a KJV and a New Living. I used to have an NIV and a Modern Man. I would love to devote hours to comparing thm but I don’t have time. What can anyone else who reads these versions tell me about the differences? Which is most literal? Which has the best notes? (My KJV has no notes.)
 
I now have four Bibles: A Douay-Rheims, a New American, a KJV and a New Living. I used to have an NIV and a Modern Man. I would love to devote hours to comparing thm but I don’t have time. What can anyone else who reads these versions tell me about the differences? Which is most literal? Which has the best notes? (My KJV has no notes.)
Catholic Answers has a Bible Translations Guide, which should answer much of your question.

Most people here at CAF recommend the Douay-Rheims, or the Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition as they are both accurate and more-or-less readable. The NAB is fine, but is less accurate and many of the notes put forward problematic Scripture scholarship as though it is official Church teaching.

The New Living is pretty inaccurate and is more of a paraphrase. I’m sure there are others here more familiar with the KJV that can give you info on the deficiencies in that translation.

I’ve never heard of the “Modern Man” translation before, but it just sounds like it’s probably a paraphrase like the New Living. 😉
 
I like the poetry of the excerpt from the Concordant Version.
 
I’ve never heard of the “Modern Man” translation before, but it just sounds like it’s probably a paraphrase like the New Living. 😉
That would be the Good News Bible, which is also a paraphrase. The full title is Good News for Modern Man.
 
The GNFMM version is an extreme paraphrase. I left it at a friend’s house after I discovered that I couldn’t fit what it said with what other versions said. I’ve also read parts of the WAY, and my old churches sometimes used the RSV and sometimes the Message, which I don’t like, because it sounds like a boardroom presentation, not a Bible, to me, but if it’s all some people can understand, I don’t know, maybe it’s OK for them. I’ve leafed through many versions in stores and libraries, but I don’t have the time and energy to compare fifty-nine Bibles right now. But I notice that the literal ones are the poetic ones, so maybe the poetry styles do carry through the translations.
 
Years ago I had a comparison bible that had four version side by side. But later lost it in a house fire. Bummer. I’m now sure if they make any of those anymore. Also, the one I had was a protestant bible (that was way back before I even considered becoming catholic.

I believe that there is a parallel bible on the internet. I can I think it was something like, “onlineparallelbible.com” But don’t quote me on that. It could be .org or something else. It might be something to look up. It may help. 😉
 
Ironically, I just finished reading Inter Praecipuas, which condemns non approved vernacular translations.

The decrees put forth in this encyclical were never revoked to my knowledge, except the Index of Forbidden Books. So is it just a “Blue Law” nowadays?
 
Well you didn’t say which versions of which.

I would assume you have a Challoner version of the Douay Rheims, you will actually find this pretty similar to the KJV. Mattter of fact, when Challoner revised the DRB from the extremely literal original it appears he mostly used the KJV to do it. If you have a complete KJV you will find it has more books that the DRB, the books that were in an appendix in the Vulgate. They would be 1 and 2 Esdras and the Prayer of Mannasah (sp?). Anyway unless your bible is older, or say a copy of the 1611 KJV and not the 1768 revision, it likely doesn’t contain all of the original books.

The text behind the KJV is the so called Textus Receptus, basically the text of Erasmus with some revisions from the Complutensian Polyglot. It’s really not the best text with the major problem being insertions.

The DRB is based on the Vulgate and as such it’s basis is a translation of a translation. That causes some problems but actually it’s not too bad as such translations go. I haven’t compared the original to see how that compares to the Challoner.

Anyway, both are a bit archaic in language and sometimes that can cause a problem because you read something and give it a meaning of today. I’ll use a couple of examples from the KJV. One such word is “let” now today we read “let” and we take it as to permit something. Whereas in the KJV it can mean the opposite, to hinder to hold back. So one must be very careful to read the context.

Or unicorns. Both the DRB and KJV mention unicorns. People read that and think it is speaking of the mythical single horned horse, even making fund of the Bible on account of that, but it’s not. It’s referring to the single horned rhinocersous. The problem was the Hebrew referred to an animal that we didn’t know. And if you go all the way back to the Septuagint, it referred to the single horned creature. So every translator since then followed the Greek which they could understand. Studies since then have let us know that it is referring to an extinct oxen.

Now you wouldn’t think that would have any change in meaning but it does. There is a passage that speaks of Christ on the horn of the unicorn. Well if you run into a person who insists Christ was hung on a single stake instead of a cross, that’s it’s origin. Basically a unicorn would give you the image of a spike and a skull of an oxen looks like a cross.

There’s quite a few other examples, people will tell you they like the old translations and they will of course study and learn those things, but for some reason it’s been my experience that they don’t.

Anyway the NAB is a modern translation from the critical text. It’s really pretty good, The footnotes drive some people crazy because they exhibit some of the modern critical scholarship. If you ignore the footnotes and go with the text, it’s really pretty good.

The Good News as has been said is really a paraphrase. Now a praraphrase can actually be a good thing. People who aren’t familiar with the Bible often get a lot more at first from reading a paraphrase. But the author is critical since a lot of interpretation goes into a paraphrase and the other thing people overlook is that your language must match the translation very closely. The Good News really is pretty good if you are 50 or 60 years old from the US. Get outside that demographic and your English is probably different enough that it starts to become a problem. It’s hard to dig into a paraphrase and do things like word studies and such because it’s just too much like a commentary. But for just sitting and reading a paraphrase can be quite nice.

You will hear people talking about a current paraphrase, the Message, in quite glowing terms. Drives me crazy. I’m too old for it and have done too much study. But for new Christians, it’s probably pretty good. Problem is people are trying to get things like study bibles based on the Message, boy what a mess that is. But to sit and read, especially for new Christians, it has a niche. But one must be careful with any paraphrase.

And I should note the translation versus paraphrase thing is not a hard line. Every translation contains some paraphrase because the idioms and such of language require it. If you just give a wooden literal rendering from the original, people would be completely confused. So often an idiom in the original is translated into it’s equivalent in English. I think of in the Old Testament where it is said that God grows angry. Well the literal translation is that God’s nostrils grow wide. Translators give you the meaning, God’s angry, rather than the translations, wide nostrils.

JJ
 
The Bible translation I personally prefer is the “New Jerusalem Bible”, editors edition. It is extensively footnoted. It uses word for word translation, where word for word suffices, and thought for thought where word for word does not. This gives a better understanding to the idioms that may have been used in the original languages of either Hebrew or Greek. Not being a scholar in either one (meaning I do not know either), I find this more helpful. This is just my personal preference.
Deacon Ed B
 
Or unicorns. Both the DRB and KJV mention unicorns. People read that and think it is speaking of the mythical single horned horse, even making fund of the Bible on account of that, but it’s not. It’s referring to the single horned rhinocersous. The problem was the Hebrew referred to an animal that we didn’t know. And if you go all the way back to the Septuagint, it referred to the single horned creature. So every translator since then followed the Greek which they could understand. Studies since then have let us know that it is referring to an extinct oxen.

Now you wouldn’t think that would have any change in meaning but it does. There is a passage that speaks of Christ on the horn of the unicorn. Well if you run into a person who insists Christ was hung on a single stake instead of a cross, that’s it’s origin. Basically a unicorn would give you the image of a spike and a skull of an oxen looks like a cross.
There is also “behemoth”, which most modern translations refer to a a hippopotamus. “Leviathan” is sometimes referred to as a crocodile or whale in modern translations.
 
strngrnrth

This can get complicated, but I will try to make this as simple as I can.

I read Greek, and I do most of my Scripture readings from the Greek Septuagint OT and the Greek NT UBS 3rd edition, so I don’t rely on English translations anymore. I used to go through so many agonizing debates about what English translation is best back in my Southern Baptist days that I took Greek and continued my studies from there on, so it eliminated many arguments for me. That being said, let me point out some suggestions on my part.
  1. If I was to have only one English translation of the Bible, and no other Version period, I would make the Douay Rheims my choice.
  2. In your case, when you compare those different translations you are going to find different readings that are not always just translated differently, but readings that are translated from different ancient texts. There are over 5000 Greek manuscripts of the NT, and there are different Greek texts, and some of these translations are not translated from the same text. It is not like they all used the same Greek and Hebrew texts, so you are going to find many differences that go beyond the simple translation techniques. Textual criticism plays a part in many of the differences you will find.
  3. If I was you, I would not purchase anymore English translations, I would get an interlinear. The Apostolic Bible is a great bargain, it has the OT and NT. This will allow you to see how literal your English translations really are. My website will give you free access to all the Bible interlinears that you would need. Here is the link to them litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Bible+Tools
    My site also provides a linked lexicon to all the books of the Bible, even to the Deuterocanonicals. And I have interlinears in Aramaic and Hebrew along with a great selection of the Greek, plus a Latin Vulgate linked lexicon so you can study each word from the Version that the Douay Rheims was translated from.
I used to use the NIV years ago, and I loved it. But I have gotten to where I find it to be at the bottom of my list. The New Living Translation also is at the bottom of my list too. There is a lot of biased alterations that I found throughout the years among them.

I feel comfortable with any Catholic approved translation, but the NAB footnotes are not worth the paper that they are printed on. The translation is great in many parts, but crummy in some others. The NRSV-CE is excellent.

Non-Catholic translation that I trust would be the NETS (New English Translation of the Septuagint) ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/

Plus, my friend Peter Papoutsis, has been translating the LXX, it is called the Holy Orthodox Bible, peterpapoutsis.com/ I highly recommend it!
 
The Bible translation I personally prefer is the “New Jerusalem Bible”, editors edition. It is extensively footnoted. It uses word for word translation, where word for word suffices, and thought for thought where word for word does not. This gives a better understanding to the idioms that may have been used in the original languages of either Hebrew or Greek. Not being a scholar in either one (meaning I do not know either), I find this more helpful. This is just my personal preference.
Deacon Ed B
Good for you, Deacon Ed, for mentioning the NJB! 👍

I agree with what you’ve said about it and would go further to say that it doesn’t get the “airplay” it deserves here on CAF. Probably my biggest peeve is that it was not even considered by those hierarchies who are all too quick to embrace the NRSV.

The gender-inclusive language of the NJB is far more restrained than that in either the NRSV or the RNAB.
 
I could probably quickly learn Greek and Hebrew (a gift God gave me) if I had the resources. However, all the affordable self-teaching materials I have been able to find were for Modern Greek and Hebrew. I know both languages have changed a great deal and Greek has several very diffferent ancient dialects. But I have heard arguments pro and con KJV and all the pro-KJV arguments seem based on a two-streams-of-copies theory that doesn’t line up with the extensive travel and communication in the Early chrch, and they ignore the many changes that version has gone through. But the anti-KJV arguments generally just say those manuscripts aren’t reliable without explaining to layfolk why not. How can I be sure which manuscripts are accurate without becoming a world-class textual critic myself (and I don’t have the time or the money for that)?
If the D-R is based on the same manuscripts, is it basically the same version?
I want a very literal translation with notes to explain linguistic idioms and sayings etc., not a brick of notes on some translation committee’s liberal ideology, if possible.
Thanks to everyone who has ideas.
 
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