So much fuss about a non-baptism

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choy

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hopefully some of you guys can give me (name removed by moderator)ut, advice, or just hear me vent

my son was born in March. we have targetted May 1st to be his baptism because we want to give enough time from his due date (he could be up to two weeks over) and so my family can plan in advance to fly in (we’re a family who lives in different parts of the world)

so when my son was born, he was diagnosed with intestinal malrotation about 4 days after his birth and was to go into surgery. i decided (and convinced my wife) to have him baptized in the hospital before the surgery, and so we did. (the priest also performed confirmation)

now, we’re still planning to have something for May 1st because thats when all the family is coming in. i was hoping we can still do the right of Baptism in the Church minus the actual Baptism so i can involve the godparents in the ceremony. the issue is further complicated because our priest is away and our substitute priest is a Chaldean priest, so he’s not familiar with the Latin Rite of Baptism. and now i have to look for another priest to perform the ceremony for us (we only have one priest in our parish, the substitute priest comes from another parish)

i’m just thinking, am i making too much of a fuss over a non-Baptism? my son’s been baptized and we’re just asking for a ceremony to get the godparents involved (since they’re flying in this May 1st). the situation is a bit complicated and i’m thinking are we asking for too much for a non-Sacrament. i mean, if my son was to be actually baptized, i would go the extra mile. but he’s not.

any suggestions, advice? perhaps share a glass of beer or two, virtually? 🤷 am i stressing out over nothing?
 
Since he is already Baptized, you do not need to have it done again. You can have a “conditional” baptism, where the priest says “In case you were not baptized properly, I baptize you…”.

Or, you can just have a baptism party for the family that is coming in.

God’s blessings to you and your family and congratulation on the new little one. I am glad he is okay after having surgery so young.
 
thanks Regi, he’s fine now

like i said, we just want to go through the motions without having to do the actual baptism (no pouring of water and saying the Trinitarian Formula) but otherwise would go through the rest of the rite. i was thinking of just having a ceremony so i can ge the godparents involved. while i already have registered their names in the parish were the baptism was registered (it was in another parish that has jurisdiction over the hospital, which is on the other side of town from where we are), i was thinking of engaging them through the formal ceremony

i just want to know, am i asking too much in this case? the situation just got too complicated with our parish priest away and i’m thinking i may be asking too much when my son is not receiving the sacrament anyway
 
choy said:
hopefully some of you guys can give me (name removed by moderator)ut, advice, or just hear me vent

now, we’re still planning to have something for May 1st because thats when all the family is coming in. i was hoping we can still do the right of Baptism in the Church minus the actual Baptism so i can involve the godparents in the ceremony. the issue is further complicated because our priest is away and our substitute priest is a Chaldean priest, so he’s not familiar with the Latin Rite of Baptism. and now i have to look for another priest to perform the ceremony for us (we only have one priest in our parish, the substitute priest comes from another parish)

any suggestions, advice? perhaps share a glass of beer or two, virtually? 🤷 am i stressing out over nothing?
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Hi Choy,

I have no practical experience with this rite but there is a ritual called “the rite of bringing a baptized child to the church.” This ritual is, as far as I know, meant for cases when an infant/child is baptized by a non-catholic but then the parents want the child to become catholic. However, from what I have been told, this rite can be adapted to your particular situation.

Also, I have heard that someone in your situation can have all the other rites of a “solemn baptism” performed after the baptism–so, the things like presentation of a candle, clothing with the baptismal garment, the anointings, the exorcisms, etc., can be performed even though the baptism would be skipped, since it has already been done.

I do not have a copy of the rites in front of me so I can not refer you to anything official. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will be able to confirm or counter what I have said…

Dan
P.S. I would suggest not doing a conditional baptism. That is only appropriate when there is a doubt about the baptismal status of the person. There is no doubt here.
 
thanks Dan. i was thinking of the same thing. i have a copy of the Baptismal right, and you can google one up as well

the other source of my stress in this situation is that i can’t get a priest that will do it for us on the date we want to. can’t do it any other date because this has been planned from a long time ago and all of my family live somewhere else and are flying in for this event. all are aware the baby has been baptized because of what happened. should i put forth the effort and get a priest to commit to this rite even though its not an actual baptism?

i have been mentioning May 1st for the longest time, i don’t know why our priest never told me he was going on leave until about a few weeks ago. then the priest who would always substitute for him happens to be a Chaldean Rite priest, so they have different traditions of baptism. he was nice enough to tell me that if there is really no other choice, he’ll cancel some appointments and do the rite for me, so it also got me thinking if what i want is worth it to pull him from something thats possibly important as well?
 
choy said:
any suggestions, advice? perhaps share a glass of beer or two, virtually? 🤷 am i stressing out over nothing?
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you were very wise to insist on baptism when your child was ill, and so glad to hear he is doing better. The procedure is to complete the rite of baptism, providing what was not done in the hospital such as the anointing, white garment, candle etc, and various prayers and blessings. Your visiting priest is probably more familiar with the rites than you realize and in any case has the proper books available in the church. Be sure he understands that the child already has had water baptism, and make sure the documentation of that gets entered in the parish records (work with the parish secretary to make sure).

No you cannot have a conditional baptism as there is no doubt the child has been validly baptized.

the child is too young for beer, keep that for the godparents and guests at the party
 
The situation described in the OP isn’t doesn’t happen every day, but it does happen regularly, and has for ages. In other words, it’s nothing new or unique.

I have to assume that the priest who did the actual Baptism made the appropriate notations in the parish register, so whoever is filling-in must be be guided accordingly. That said, there is absolutely no harm in doing a “conditional baptism” despite the known validity of the emergency baptism. The grandparents, godparents, and others who are making a trip to attend the formal baptism will be pleased and the priest has to only remember the slight variation in the formula. And you will have the photo-video memories of the full rite of baptism. 🙂 But let the priest make the final call about how much of the service will actually be done.

BTW, the same is true for Confirmation: when that times comes, the boy could be “conditionally confirmed” in order that he not be singled out from the others in his confirmation class.
 
He is baptized, you can not have a conditional baptism because he is baptized.

Also I do not think “going through the motions” is a good idea either as it would be a simulation of the Sacrament which in my opinion plays down the importance of the Sacrament.

Just have a party, attend Mass as a family. The explainination that your son was baptized due to a threat to his life (which all major surgery is especially for infants) should be enough for your family.
 
malphono said:
there is absolutely no harm in doing a “conditional baptism” despite the known validity of the emergency baptism. s.
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yes there is, it is forbidden when the facts of the baptism are known. the proper procedure is completion of the rite of infant baptism. as with many children who ar confirmed in infancy, he should receive systematic formal religious education throughout his school years, and at the time his peers are preparing for confirmation, accompany them as a confirmed Catholic, in the same way as sponsors, parents and other confirmed Catholics do at that celebration. there is no “conditional Confirmation” in such a case, still less is it proper EVER to “go through the motions” of a sacrament, that is a travesty.
 
don’t worry, i’m not considering conditional baptism in any way
puzzleannie said:
you were very wise to insist on baptism when your child was ill, and so glad to hear he is doing better. The procedure is to complete the rite of baptism, providing what was not done in the hospital such as the anointing, white garment, candle etc, and various prayers and blessings. Your visiting priest is probably more familiar with the rites than you realize and in any case has the proper books available in the church. Be sure he understands that the child already has had water baptism, and make sure the documentation of that gets entered in the parish records (work with the parish secretary to make sure).

No you cannot have a conditional baptism as there is no doubt the child has been validly baptized.

the child is too young for beer, keep that for the godparents and guests at the party
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lol, the beer was for me. i’m just getting too stressed over this 😃

the baptism done in the hospital is just the basic baptism. water and the Trinitarian Formula performed by a priest (i was aware that i could have done it given it was an emergency situation and i would have done so had the priest not arrived before the surgery)

the visiting priest already told me plainly that he is not familiar with the Latin Rite of Baptism although he has performed many Chaldean Rite Baptisms
 
malphono said:
That said, there is absolutely no harm in doing a “conditional baptism” despite the known validity of the emergency baptism. T
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If the baptism is appropriately recorded then there can be no conditional baptism. It is absolutely forbiden by Church law and theology.
“Conditional baptisms” are only rarely done and even then only in cases where a previous bapstism is doubtful or validity is questioned.
BTW, the same is true for Confirmation: when that times comes, the boy could be “conditionally confirmed” in order that he not be singled out from the others in his confirmation class.
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Once again, if its appropriately recorded then there absolutely cannot be a “conditional confirmation.” The sacrament can only be received once.
 
NewEnglandPries said:
If the baptism is appropriately recorded then there can be no conditional baptism. It is absolutely forbiden by Church law and theology.
“Conditional baptisms” are only rarely done and even then only in cases where a previous bapstism is doubtful or validity is questioned.

Once again, if its appropriately recorded then there absolutely cannot be a “conditional confirmation.” The sacrament can only be received once.
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in my case, both baptism and confirmation is recorded. i, in fact, have two bapstismal certificates because i had the names of the godparents ammended so they sent me the second one with the godparents there
 
choy said:
don’t worry, i’m not considering conditional baptism in any way

lol, the beer was for me. i’m just getting too stressed over this 😃

the baptism done in the hospital is just the basic baptism. water and the Trinitarian Formula performed by a priest (i was aware that i could have done it given it was an emergency situation and i would have done so had the priest not arrived before the surgery)

the visiting priest already told me plainly that he is not familiar with the Latin Rite of Baptism although he has performed many Chaldean Rite Baptisms
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I have my Rite of Baptism book here. When a child who was baptized in an emergency baptism is brought to the church the rite is as follows:

Greeting & Opening dialogue:
What name have you given your child? etc. etc.

Signing of the Child with the Cross
Anointing after Baptism
This presupposes that the anointing was not done during the emergency Baptism. In your case the anointing was already done since your son was confirmed.

Clothing with White Garment

Presentation of the Lighted Candle
 
thanks!

i guess my biggest worry right now is finding a priest on our preferred date, which is this saturday already :eek:

i don’t know how much should i push our parish secretary to find a suitable priest for this, and at what point should i say, “you know what, my son’s baptized, we don’t really need this”
 
NewEnglandPries said:
If the baptism is appropriately recorded then there can be no conditional baptism. It is absolutely forbiden by Church law and theology.
“Conditional baptisms” are only rarely done and even then only in cases where a previous bapstism is doubtful or validity is questioned.
Click to expand...
puzzleannie said:
yes there is, it is forbidden when the facts of the baptism are known. the proper procedure is completion of the rite of infant baptism. as with many children who ar confirmed in infancy, he should receive systematic formal religious education throughout his school years, and at the time his peers are preparing for confirmation, accompany them as a confirmed Catholic, in the same way as sponsors, parents and other confirmed Catholics do at that celebration. there is no “conditional Confirmation” in such a case, still less is it proper EVER to “go through the motions” of a sacrament, that is a travesty.
Click to expand...
ByzCath said:
He is baptized, you can not have a conditional baptism because he is baptized.

Also I do not think “going through the motions” is a good idea either as it would be a simulation of the Sacrament which in my opinion plays down the importance of the Sacrament.

Just have a party, attend Mass as a family. The explainination that your son was baptized due to a threat to his life (which all major surgery is especially for infants) should be enough for your family.
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Apparently I should have kept my mouth shut: as an Oriental I always look at something like this with an eye to economia which doesn’t at all work in the legalistic West. What would be the economia in this case concerns the people who have traveled (some, it seems, great distances) and giving them a “party” just isn’t quite the same. But it’s not my family and it’s not my concern, so yes, I should have kept mum.

However, in any case, I did say:
malphono said:
But let the priest make the final call about how much of the service will actually be done.
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which statement seems to have been totally ignored. 🤷

What I did not say was that the sacrament could be repeated.
 
malphono said:
But let the priest make the final call about how much of the service will actually be done.
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this is actually one of the things i am disappointed about this whole process. that most of the entire process is dependent on myself. i already asked my parish priest to say what can or cannot be done for the Rite. he didn’t. nor did he inform the substitute priest that there was going to be a Baptismal Rite. nor did the parish secretary inform the substitute priest that there was going to be a Baptismal Rite. it was all left up to me to inform and talk to the substitute priest about it, and now its at a point that its so complicated because our substitute priest is of a different Rite, and on top of that he has prior commitments for that day and time
 
choy said:
this is actually one of the things i am disappointed about this whole process. that most of the entire process is dependent on myself. i already asked my parish priest to say what can or cannot be done for the Rite. he didn’t. nor did he inform the substitute priest that there was going to be a Baptismal Rite. nor did the parish secretary inform the substitute priest that there was going to be a Baptismal Rite. it was all left up to me to inform and talk to the substitute priest about it, and now its at a point that its so complicated because our substitute priest is of a different Rite, and on top of that he has prior commitments for that day and time
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Shame really. It’s not your decision to make: the pastor has a certain responsibility here to guide. I suppose you could, since the pastor is absent, contact the chancery and explain the situation. Let them make the final decision.
 
the good news is a priest from a neighboring parish has agreed to perform the rite (just got the call from my wife a few minutes ago)

now, i just have to talk to him to make sure he knows we’re ommitting parts of the rite

good thing i started being a PREP teacher last year and have been active in these forums. at least i know a lot about these things

thanks to everyone for their help and support!

but i still need that beer! 😃
 
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