So, my college's Catholic Chaplian is officially a heretic (or so I hear)

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I have a meeting with him monday at 3pm about certain “abuses” in the liturgy. any thoughts? Advice and Prayers would be most welcome.

I heard that he was sent a letter from the Archbishop of New York saying that he was a heretic, and he was subsequently congratulated by his collegues. Some of the abuses in the mass he does: complete omission of the Nicene creed, and of several other prayers (Gloria in excelsis Deo, for example). Ad-libing the Eucharistic Prayer. Use of inclusive language; instead of “Father Son, Holy Spirit,” he says “Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier”

Anything you have to say will be appriciated.
 
Sounds like his is completely disobedient to his Bishop and to the GIRM and the Pope. Perhaps he has excommunicated himself. I would certainly avoid his Masses. Perhaps a letter to the Bishop, documenting his abuses would begin the process of healing the issues.
 
Joe,

If I were you I’d just tell him that I love the mass, and that what he is doing does disrespectful to it, and indeed to God hmself. But that is about as much as I can contribute to this discussion.

Catholig
 
Talk baseball with him, instead. Seriously, make some sort of personal connection rather than just letting it be about doctrine and practice. Then at least maybe he’ll see you as a “good guy” who’s perspective he can respect rather than someone trying to tell him what to do. Also, listen to him tell you why he does what he does and where he’s coming from. It’s easier to get someone to talk about themselves than to be on the defensive over someone else’s views. Honestly, I might expect him to come at you with all kinds of “reasoned explanations” trying to justify it all if he really is as you hear. You may or may not be ready to deal with that sort of thing, and he probably isn’t going to much listen to what you have to say or want to change anything anyway.
 
Tell him you don’t walk into a McDonalds and find that the employees decided the corporate Management was a buch of fools so they decided to change the menu to their own personal preferences regardless of what all of the other thousands and thousands of McDonalds have on thier menu. Tell him that on the outside of the church there is a sign similar to theMcDonalds sign and you expect what is on the inside is what the sign on the outside says. Tell him like in the McDonalds example you are being a victim of false advertising. Tell him the product doesn’t match the advertisement. Tell him that there is around a billion Catholics that rely on corporate management (magisterium) to keep us one body and in the spirit of Lex orandi lex credendi …the way were worship around the globe is a sign of our unity and community. Him creating his own personal forumula is an attempt to splinter that unity regardless of is he is aware of it or not. Tell him the unity is heralded from the magisterial angle and not an individual “loose canon” who is by his actions fracturing and injurying the body of Christ by ihis blantent disunity. Tell him that when a person hijacks the liturgy to suit thier own personal agenda is actually practicing a form of liturgical facism. (ok don’t tell him that last one) Tell him that the current mass was formulated by a community of believers (bishops,theolgians etc.) and his version of things are the opposite being forumulated by him as an individual neglectin the global community of our Worship. (I use the words of community and global because usually such modernists are smitten for frequent use of such terms)
 
decn2b said:
Tell him you don’t walk into a McDonalds and find that the employees decided the corporate Management was a buch of fools so they decided to change the menu to their own personal preferences regardless of what all of the other thousands and thousands of McDonalds have on thier menu. Tell him that on the outside of the church there is a sign similar to theMcDonalds sign and you expect what is on the inside is what the sign on the outside says. Tell him like in the McDonalds example you are being a victim of false advertising. Tell him the product doesn’t match the advertisement. Tell him that there is around a billion Catholics that rely on corporate management (magisterium) to keep us one body and in the spirit of Lex orandi lex credendi …the way were worship around the globe is a sign of our unity and community. Him creating his own personal forumula is an attempt to splinter that unity regardless of is he is aware of it or not. Tell him the unity is heralded from the magisterial angle and not an individual “loose canon” who is by his actions fracturing and injurying the body of Christ by ihis blantent disunity. Tell him that when a person hijacks the liturgy to suit thier own personal agenda is actually practicing a form of liturgical facism. (ok don’t tell him that last one) Tell him that the current mass was formulated by a community of believers (bishops,theolgians etc.) and his version of things are the opposite being forumulated by him as an individual neglectin the global community of our Worship. (I use the words of community and global because usually such modernists are smitten for frequent use of such terms)
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Love your McDonald’s analogy!
And from the sound of your post, I hope you really are a Deacon to be!
 
Just be respectful! Tell him you are very interested in liturgy and offer to help him by starting a liturgy committee or something of the sort (obviously one that would make orthodox suggestions!).

And remember, don’t put too much stock in unsubstantiated rumor- if his Archbishop had written him a letter calling him a heretic, I would hope that he would also have removed him from his post!
 
joe5046 said:
I have a meeting with him monday at 3pm about certain “abuses” in the liturgy. any thoughts? Advice and Prayers would be most welcome.

I heard that he was sent a letter from the Archbishop of New York saying that he was a heretic, and he was subsequently congratulated by his collegues. Some of the abuses in the mass he does: complete omission of the Nicene creed, and of several other prayers (Gloria in excelsis Deo, for example). Ad-libing the Eucharistic Prayer. Use of inclusive language; instead of “Father Son, Holy Spirit,” he says “Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier”

Anything you have to say will be appriciated.
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Joe,

I would have brought a video camera to get all that on tape and turned it in…I know it’s a bit much but hey, sometimes it takes seeing to make some people believe…

Sort of like the Halloween mass link with the slideshow from Michigan on these boards…After a while, that post was removed from this board and the link at the church’s website was pulled/inactivated…Wonder what had been said, most likely it wasn’t nice, and, it appears that the video did it’s job when people started to see it with their eyes…

What if people had just heard or read about it in the paper, probably would have just blown over…I think that video might have caused someones eyebrows to raise…

Catholics deserve to have an authentic Liturgy
 
My college’s Catholic Chaplain sounds like he was hewn from the same stone… may I ask what college this is?
 
He must have been MY pastor in 1993 at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. All that PLUS a vested woman doing homilies, and “Our Father Our Mother God, who art in heaven…” New bishop in town since then who sounds like he is shaping things up.

I don’t like the corporate example. Bad imagery to compare the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church to a hamburger joint. shudder. Unlikely to win you respect from a touchy-feely kind of person (which is what many well-meaning priests who stray off the path are). Communicate your hurt and disappointment instead of anger and indignance. IMO, it is much more likely to have an effect.
 
manualman said:
Communicate your hurt and disappointment instead of anger and indignance. IMO, it is much more likely to have an effect.
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I absolutely agree with this! Perhaps you can actually connect with him on this “pastoral” level. Though, still, if he’s set in his ways and perspective, you probably aren’t going to get him to move.
 
Bard College, about 100 miles north of NYC. I would say that there are two devout catholics at the school of about 1700. The usual goers of his mass (I and the other catholic go off campus) are usually episcapalians that dont want to wake up for their service.
 
I would suggest driving off-campus with the other devout Catholic to a local parish. It appears you are in the Archiocese of New York

yellowpages.aol.com/places-of-worship/catholic/ny/annandale-on-hudson/

I feel for you. One of the colleges where my husband teaches is giving up all pretenses of trying to appease the devout or conservative, which is what tends to happen out here in corn country. The philosophy department, in an attempt to appear au currant, will offer an alleged philosophy course entitled, “Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transsexual Queer Rights and Issues”. I did not put the “queer” in for effect. Apparently, it’s how some people prefer to be known.

The old chaplain has left, and the new chaplain is too busy getting his PhD at another university. My husband does better on content at for-profit schools and junior colleges than at this university, run by an order of religious brothers.
 
Ahhhhhhhh, I attend PRATT Institute in Brooklyn… it’s hard because the priest is so sincere, and I sometimes wonder if he’d really even understand if I said anything to him. He’s sort of a touchy feely person, stares at the cieling grinning with his hands stretched out during the mass… I’m not sure what he sees up there or what he’s doing, but it’s uncomfortable to say the least. He paraphrases the Gospel readings and blends it right into the homily while walking back and forth, says some things that seem slightly heretical… it’s a mess. I no longer go to that mass, it’s more than I can handle!
 
manualman said:
He must have been MY pastor in 1993 at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. All that PLUS a vested woman doing homilies, and “Our Father Our Mother God, who art in heaven…” New bishop in town since then who sounds like he is shaping things up.

I don’t like the corporate example. Bad imagery to compare the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church to a hamburger joint. shudder. Unlikely to win you respect from a touchy-feely kind of person (which is what many well-meaning priests who stray off the path are). Communicate your hurt and disappointment instead of anger and indignance. IMO, it is much more likely to have an effect.
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Aaah, Madison. The Vatican of American feminism. I like the McDonald’s analogy, only because those of us with philosophy degrees either go into the priesthood or end up asking whether you would like fries with your meal.
 
Cavaille-Coll said:
Aaah, Madison. The Vatican of American feminism. I like the McDonald’s analogy, only because those of us with philosophy degrees either go into the priesthood or end up asking whether you would like fries with your meal.
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😃 Or become profesisonal adjuncts and open their own businesses that apply philosophy to modern business practicies.👍
 
I have to admit that I am not comfortable with the use of the term heretic in this thread. It it could be publicly demonstrated to be true that is one case but currently it is only hearsay which is gossip and slander. Application of the term heretic is very serious and should not be thrown about carelessly.
 
joe5046 said:
I have a meeting with him monday at 3pm about certain “abuses” in the liturgy. any thoughts? Advice and Prayers would be most welcome.

I heard that he was sent a letter from the Archbishop of New York saying that he was a heretic, and he was subsequently congratulated by his collegues. Some of the abuses in the mass he does: complete omission of the Nicene creed, and of several other prayers (Gloria in excelsis Deo, for example). Ad-libing the Eucharistic Prayer. Use of inclusive language; instead of “Father Son, Holy Spirit,” he says “Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier”

Anything you have to say will be appriciated.
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Without a doubt he is a heretic.Time to move on. One sholud never go to a “Norvus Ordo”. this is what you can expect.There have been Masses where the priest was dressed like a clown, where a cookie was used as the Host, where a pizza was used a the Host for a teen Mass.Find yourself a Traditional Latin Mass. I drive over one hour to attend. It is worth the drive. You will not see any abuses at the Latin Mass.
 
mosher said:
I have to admit that I am not comfortable with the use of the term heretic in this thread. It it could be publicly demonstrated to be true that is one case but currently it is only hearsay which is gossip and slander. Application of the term heretic is very serious and should not be thrown about carelessly.
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Mosher makes an excellent point. I have removed posts naming specific institutions which had the effect of:

(1) labeling an identifiable chaplain as a “heretic” based on what someone “heard” was contained in a bishop’s letter; and,
(2) assigning another identifiable chaplain to the same category based on a poster’s perception that he “sounds like” or “reminds him” of the first priest described.

Do not post anything similar!

Banned post content/topics list:
  1. Identifying individual parishes or clergy (including hierarchy) as “unfaithful to the Magisterium”, guilty of “liturgical abuse”, or otherwise engaged in unacceptable or unpopular practices, based on personal “knowledge” or opinion without publicly available documentation that such has been alleged
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Joe Monahan
 
This isn’t a court of law and the hearsay standards need to be lower otherwise a good bit of this forum would have to go. A good deal of what concerns people is what we have head. The original poster properly said “I heard” and we are free to give that whatever weight we wish.

I didn’t get to read what Joe trimmed but we can still tell.
a) That it is a college in Dutchess County
b) Probably not a Catholic college since there is no dicussion of college administration.
c) The link to area churchs supplied suggests one college in particular.
d) In another 10 minutes I’ll have the chaplain figured out.
e) It would take longer to find out who the chaplain was at Wisconsin, but I don’t care & won’t bother.
f) We all know who the Archbishop of New York is.

I am particularly interested in what has happened since. If that information can be posted, I’d like to know. If not, I’ll follow the trail 😃

Fred
 
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